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Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

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JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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At Romans 6 Paul (not me, Paul) said that we are united with Christ in His death;
that we are buried with Him in baptism, and
that we rise again from the death to new life in Christ.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Romans 6:4-6


  • For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,


We have not physically died at Baptism but rather it identifies us with His death and resurrection as an act of faith.



JLB
 
i dont follow these you appear to be adding baptism into salvation as a type condition


I think this should be a seperated thread, however it is a good topic for discussion.


I would have to say that, without qualifying which one, that Baptism is very much a part of salvation.


If we are not baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, whereby we are joined to Christ, are we saved?


  • For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body


For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. 1 Corinthians 12:12-14



The question is which Baptism is this referring to.


An examination of all the scriptures that pertain to this subject must be included for all to have the necessary information to come to the same conclusion, which would be an exhaustive study, and would probably derail this thread.



JLB
 
I would have to say that, without qualifying which one, that Baptism is very much a part of salvation.


If we are not baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, whereby we are joined to Christ, are we saved?


  • For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body
water baptism is symbolic does not save us and follows salvation the spiritual baptism takes place at salvation .i realize others feel baptism of the spirit is evidence of speaking in tongues .they are welcome to that but i personaly do not see that part .

If we are not baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, whereby we are joined to Christ, are we saved?
the answer would be NO
 
realize others feel baptism of the spirit is evidence of speaking in tongues .they are welcome to that but i personaly do not see that par


I think you mean that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.


Remember there are three baptisms.



JLB
 
We have not physically died at Baptism but rather it identifies us with His death and resurrection as an act of faith.

The death is not a physical reality.
It is a spiritual reality.
That's the "born of water" part of being "born again."

Baptism is not "identifying" with Christ. (Whatever "identifying" means.)

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
We are baptized into His death.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
"We were buried with Him." not "we identified with His death."

that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
"JUST AS" Christ was raised from the dead - not "identifying with His resurrection."

Rom 6:5a For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
We have been united (not "identified") together.
We have been united in the "likeness" of his death. Where else does Paul use the word "likeness"?
At Phl 2:7 (Jesus) made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
When Jesus came in the "LIKENESS" of man, was he actually a human being, a man?
Or did He just "identify" with men?
He really is a human being, a man, in every aspect of the word "man" except sin.

Rom 6:5b-6 we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
We will actually be resurrected.
Our "old man", the "body of sin" was actually crucified, died and was buried with Christ in Baptism SO THAT we would no longer be slaves to sin.
If that "old man" , the "body of sin" is not REALLY crucified, dead,and buried in baptism, then we are still slaves to sin and will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


Baptism is a mystery (sacrament, spiritual reality) of the Church that was given to the Church by Jesus who commanded that every believer be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Baptism is not just a ritual or a gesture whereby we "identify" (:shrug) with Christ in His crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection.

That is what the Church has taught from the beginning.

Justin Martyr (100 – 165 AD) The First Apology, Chapter LXI, “Christian Baptism”

I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: “Wash you, make you clean;...”

And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; …… The illuminand is also washed in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Spirit, who through the prophets foretold everything about Jesus.
 
i dont follow these you appear to be adding baptism into salvation as a type condition
Jesus commanded that every disciple be baptized. (Mat 28:19)
If Jesus is your LORD then you must obey Him and be baptized. ("...why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?" Luke 6:46)
If Jesus is NOT your LORD than you can skip baptism.
Or are you suggesting that we don't have to do what Jesus commands in order to be a Christian?

Jesus also said "...unless one is born of water (baptism in water) and the Spirit, (indwelt by the Holy Spirit.) he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

Here's what Peter said:
1Pe 3:20b...21 ...in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


So the word of God states that baptism saves us.
 
Or are you suggesting that we don't have to do what Jesus commands in order to be a Christian?
no i am saying baptism does not save us. should we be baptized? yes but it will not keep you out of heaven if you get saved and die before baptism
 
The death is not a physical reality.
It is a spiritual reality.
That's the "born of water" part of being "born again."

Brother there is no such scripture that refers to born of water as Baptism.

John 3:5-6 refers to two births:

  • Natural birth - born of Water - Born of flesh
  • Spiritual birth - Born again - Born of the Spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6


There is nothing spiritual about natural water.


People go swimming and takes bathes all the time.


It’s the act of faith and our confession of Christ in the act of Baptism whereby we in front of witnesses demonstrate our repentance.



JLB
 
We have been united in the "likeness" of his death.


Yes the likeness of His death.


We don’t physically die, nor are we physically raised from the dead.


That happens at the coming of the Lord.



JLB
 
Brother there is no such scripture that refers to born of water as Baptism.
  • Natural birth - born of Water - Born of flesh
  • Spiritual birth - Born again - Born of the Spirit.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


You must be born again of both water and spirit.
Of course no one who has never been born will not see the kingdom of heaven. You have to actually exist to see anything. Suggesting that being born in the first place is an argument against the verse being a reference to baptism is absurd.

That's what Paul's teaching on baptism tells us. We die with Christ in baptism and are raised to new life.
When you die and are raised to new life you have been born again.
 
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We don’t physically die, nor are we physically raised from the dead.
I did not say we physically die.
I said it is a spiritual reality.
Brother there is no such scripture that refers to born of water as Baptism.
Baptism in scripture and the early Church

In the NT Scripture

Mat 28:18:-20a And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefor and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;…”

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

Acts 3:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 6:3-6 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(It is only by being “in Christ” what we have eternal life.)

Col 2:11-14 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Tit 3:4-5 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

1Pet 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


In the Early Church Writings (A few Selections)
Note: the word “Regeneration” has the same meaning as; “born again.”


Justin Martyr (100 – 165 AD) The First Apology, Chapter LXI, “Christian Baptism”

I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: “Wash you, make you clean;...”

And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; …… The illuminand is also washed in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Spirit, who through the prophets foretold everything about Jesus.

Theophilus (Ca.180)

The things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this could be a sign of men destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and bath of regeneration - as many as come to the truth and are born again.

Irenaeus (Ca. 180)

When we come to refute them (the Gnostics) we will show in its proper place that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God. They have renounced the whole faith…..For the baptism instituted by the visible Jesus was for the remission of sins.

But there are some of them (Gnostics) who assert that it is unnecessary to bring persons to the water. Rather, they mix oil and water together, and they place this mixture on the heads of those who are to be initiated…this they maintain to be redemption…Other (heretics), however, reject all these practices and maintain that the mystery of the unspeakable and invisible power should not be performed by visible and corruptible creatures. …These claim that their knowledge of the unspeakable Greatness is itself perfect redemption.

Tertullian (Ca. 198)

Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life… we, like little fishes, after the example of our ichthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water.

Now, the teaching is laid down that “without baptism, salvation is attainable by no one.” This is based primarily on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, “Unless one is born of water he has not life.” However, when this is laid down, there immediately arise scrupulous (or rather, audacious) doubts on the part of some.

“Unless a man has been born again of water and spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of the heavens.” These words have tied faith to the necessity of baptism. Accordingly, all thereafter who became believers were baptized. So it was too, that Paul, when he believed, was baptized.
 
I have seen no such evidence that from the Apostles that John 3:5-6 has anything to do with Baptism.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6


Born of water is explained in the next verse - That which is born of the flesh is flesh

Likewise born of the Spirit, is also explained - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Jesus is using "earth things" [natural birth] to teach Nicodemus a "heavenly thing", [spiritual birth].


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12


John uses the same phrase again in 1 John 5, referring to the birth of Christ.


This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6


John teaches us about the miracle birth of Christ.


Do you understand what John is saying here, when He says -

He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.


All who are born came by water.


Jesus is the only One who came by water and blood.


This is a reference to the virgin birth of Christ.



JLB
 
Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”


There were many heresies in the early Church.


Justin Martyr was a philosopher.


Born again comes by obeying the Gospel, not baptism.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Baptism comes after a person is born again.
A person is not born again at baptism.


44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

  • These are born again and baptized with the Holy Spirit, then they are baptized in water

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48








JLB
 
“Unless a man has been born again of water and spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of the heavens.” These words have tied faith to the necessity of baptism. Accordingly, all thereafter who became believers were baptized. So it was too, that Paul, when he believed, was baptized.


No such scripture that says born again of water.


Born of water is a reference to natural birth.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6




JLB
 
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