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Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

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OK.
Water and Spirit baptism are, as you say, two different baptisms.
Jesus said to be baptized in water. (In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)
That is done by other believers.
Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit.

Yes?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Says nothing about water in these verses as only one can speculate that it does. Nowhere in scripture does it mention we are commanded to be baptized in water. We are commanded by Christ to be baptized in the Holy Spirit as it is a gift from God to all who are Spiritually born again by His word and Spirit. Water does not command us, but the word being Christ does as His word is fountains of living water that we have the promise to enter into the kingdom of God when Christ returns.

Jesus does command that we repent first and then be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as at time we are receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38-41. This is the same thing Jesus taught Nicodemus in John 3:5-7.

Water baptism is a symbolic act whereby a new Christian identifies with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. It's a public profession of a persons repentance and faith in Christ and a way of giving outward testimony to an inward work of God.

Is it necessary for salvation or receiving the Holy Spirit, no, as it is a testimony to others you have repented of your sins and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit through the Spiritual rebirth that is necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7.

Peter taught that no one should forbid anyone to be baptized in water if they have received the Holy Ghost as well as they did. Acts 10:47. John baptized was for remission of sin, the baptism of Christ is for the receiving the Holy Spirit through the Spiritual rebirth.
 
So should I never tell a Jehovah's Witness that his view of Jesus as a creature is in error?
Or should I not tell a Mormon that his religion is not Christian because it is polytheistic and teaches taht a creature can become divinity through good works just like God the Father did.
Did Paul tell Peter that he was in error?
Did the the Jerusalem council, in deciding that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses, not tell the "party of the Pharisees" that they were in error?
Did Jesus not tell the Scribes and Pharisees that they were in error due to their traditions?
Did He not tell the Sadducees that they were in error concerning the resurrection.

When did this notion that Christians were not to declare error to be error arise?

When was it decided that we should tolerate error in order not to offend anyone?

Should we allow a believer to continue in error and acting contrary to the teaching of Christ in order to avoid offending him?

Is inoffensive peace more important than the eternal life for which Christ died and rose from the grave to give us?

(Those are rhetorical questions not directed at you personally)

Yes, we may disagree over minor issues.

But Baptism is not a minor issue. It is a command of Jesus Who is our LORD and God. (Assuming that we actually do try to obey Him)

No, I am not angry but I am close to tears

I never said we should tolerate error as scripture says we should expose it especially in false religions and those who stray away from the doctrines of Christ. You and I (at least I would think you are as I don't know you personally) are both Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, but yet we agree on many things and disagree on many things. Does that make one of us right or wrong, no, it just means that is what we believe by how we study.

As a true child of God we discuss our indifference's, not argue them and make accusations. Even Peter was in error by tradition where Paul had to correct him, Galatians 2:11-14. When we present our belief with scripture it is up to the other one to take them and study to search truth by understanding the full context of scripture. Will I error, yes. Will you error, yes. Why, because we are ever learning as we study.
 
here is just my thoughts both of you have been affiliated in the Pentecostal denom.. we have hashed this out before both of you believe in being slain in the spirit and have given scripture to back it up. me i personally disagree with it ..do i say your in total error ? my point is just because one has a different belief do we call it false teaching? see this si the issue we are facing today each group of believers who attend a church group are all different .but yet one in Christ as he prayed in john 17 not one large church group but one in Him . this subject is going like a osas thread
 
If you are wholly convinced of water baptism, I am not going to hinder that.
It is what Jesus commanded.
It is what the apostles practiced in obedience to Jesus command.
It is what the entire Church taught and practiced until certain charismatic individuals with large followings started teaching their own contrary doctrines in the 16th century and later.
It is what Jesus said is necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven. (unless you are nailed to a cross and shortly to die)

So, for 2000 years the Church has been practicing baptism in water.
 
I'm going to post this scripture again, cause it's spelled out.

John 3:3-8
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter his mother's womb to be born!"
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but he Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Jesus is focusing on the Spirit here. He first goes into detail about being born naturally from a mother's womb (it has water). Everyone has that part down. The part Jesus is emphasizing is the born of the Spirit part.

I grew up in a church that I was never told I had to be born again of the Spirit. I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught. Sorry if I sound a little upset.

Sorry I keep posting the John the baptist scripture with a more powerful baptism scripture, but that is what I go by.
 
I grew up in a church that I was never told I had to be born again of the Spirit. I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught. Sorry if I sound a little upset.
amen - this is a very true statement

i was glad for the day someone told me how to be born again too

i never realized til after i was born again how close i was to missing eternity in heaven with Jesus simply because no one had ever told me that we needed to be born again
 
I was brought up in the UCC and salvation and baptism of the Holy Spirit was never taught. There wasn't even any mention of a Holy Spirit. Then I attended the AOG and it wasn't actually taught the way it should be, but more an emotional feel good and purge, purge, purge your sins away at the altar. It wasn't until many years later I started attending a small congregational church that was on fire for the Lord and there I learned what God's salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire was all about. Before really being taught it was more lip service and deceiving emotions coming out of me as I never truly knew who Christ was back then nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
 
dirtfarmer here

It is my belief that there is only one baptism for the believer, Spiritual baptism. It is Spiritual baptism that places us in Christ. With that baptism comes the sealing with the Spirit.
After we are baptized into the body of Christ with the Spirit there are many filling with the Spirit, which is called sanctification. We are sanctified to accomplish things that God wants us to do by the Spirit.

What about baptism in water and baptism with the Holy Spirit?



JLB
 
I grew up in a church that I was never told I had to be born again of the Spirit. I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught. Sorry if I sound a little upset.

:salute


I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught.


Exactly! So true.


That is why it is so important to clarify what Jesus is teaching in John 3:5-6


Teaching people that the are “born again” when they are baptized is definitely a problem that could lead a person to believe they have salvation when they do not.


Born of water is a reference to natural birth.



JLB
 
i think there has been a misunderstanding here

@ezra was talking about the thief on the cross had no chance to be water baptized and yet he was saved/born again/went to heaven because of his faith in Christ as Savior
When I first read JLB's reply, "Says who?" he said exactly what was going through my mind. How do we know that the thief was never baptized in water? We only know of the his life from the time he appears hung on a cross next to Jesus. We know nothing of his life prior to this moment accept that he was a criminal, likely a thief according to both Matthew and Mark.
 
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

We are all baptized into Christ by grace through faith alone as when we first believed, repented and were made Spiritually renewed/reborn it was by hearing the word preached unto us and by faith, which is Christ Jesus, we were baptized in the Spirit of God that now indwells us.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Without faith we can not please Him nor are we none of His own. Salvation, faith, the Spiritual rebirth all comes by hearing the word and acting on it. It can't come by water as it is the blood of Christ that washes us clean. Christ baptism is for receiving the Holy Spirit as John decreased so Christ could increase.

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Matthew 1:1-3, 11; 3:16 John's baptism in water was to prepare one for the coming of the Lord. Acts 19:4 Paul explains John's baptism was for repentance only as Christ nor the Holy Spirit had come yet. Christ baptism is for the Holy Spirit and empowerment (fire) that first came on Christ before He could start His ministry as when Christ was baptized by John is was for Christ to relate with humanity and a voice from heaven declared to all this is God's beloved Son sent to them to save that which is lost.
 
When I first read JLB's reply, "Says who?" he said exactly what was going through my mind. How do we know that the thief was never baptized in water? We only know of the his life from the time he appears hung on a cross next to Jesus. We know nothing of his life prior to this moment accept that he was a criminal, likely a thief according to both Matthew and Mark.

I could only think the theif was taken out of prison just as Jesus was on the same day so how could he have been baptized in water not knowing who Jesus was until they were hanged at the same time. By the statement the theif said to the other thief that was railing on Jesus I believe he knew God as he asked the other theif do you not fear God. It seems the thief knew God at one time, but strayed away, Luke 23:39-43.
 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


The full expression of baptism is found in the same way the full expression of God Is found in the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit.


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:18



JLB
 
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I could only think the theif was taken out of prison just as Jesus was on the same day so how could he have been baptized in water not knowing who Jesus was until they were hanged at the same time. By the statement the theif said to the other thief that was railing on Jesus I believe he knew God as he asked the other theif do you not fear God. It seems the thief knew God at one time, but strayed away, Luke 23:39-43.
Can't deny that but it is also possible he was baptized by John in the Jordan and was caught and tried for his crimes sometime during Jesus' 3-year ministry. We just don't know.
 
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Can't deny that but it is also possible he was baptized by John in the Jordan and was caught and tried for his crimes sometime during Jesus' 3-year ministry. We just don't know.

At least we do know he knew God at one time, but turned from Him until Christ was revealed before him.
 
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


The full expression of baptism is found in the same way the full expression of God Is found in the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit.


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:18



JLB

I agree, but still no reference to water baptism as nowhere in scripture did John baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The disciples were given the commission in Matthew 28:29, but also told to wait first until they received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which happened in the upper room on the day of Pentecost and not in water baptism.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Water in vs. 5 is not the amniotic sac that the fetus grows and develops in as how can a baby make a dicision from birth to be Spiritually born again. John 3:5-7 Jesus is teaching Nicodemus about the Spiritual rebirth as it's by God's grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, which is Christ Jesus being the living word (water) in the beginning, John 1:1-4; 4:4-26, come in the flesh of man sent to us by the Spirit that is God. Born of water and Spirit means you by faith believe in Christ and the one who sent Him in order to enter the kingdom of God, John 14:6
 
Please explain why the entire Church, from the time described in the book of Acts, has baptized people in water.

What have you discovered that refutes 2000 years of practice?

How is it that you you have come to know better than Peter who baptized the entire household of Cornelius IN WATER after they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit? (Acts 10)

Please explain why Peter was wrong (but YOU are right) to tell the people on the day of Pentecost why they needed to be baptized and that they would receive the gift of the Spirit. (two separate events) (Acts 2)

Please explain how baptizing people in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit has been understood as baptism IN WATER for the past 2000 years but you have discovered it to be false teaching?


Then why does Jesus refer to it as being "born again"?

Jhn 3:3-7
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

How can one be "born again"?
He must be born of water AND spirit.

The exchange is framed by the words "born again."

Tit 3:5b ... according to His mercy He saved us,
through the washing of regeneration
and
renewing of the Holy Spirit,

The "washing of regeneration" is being born again (that's what "regeneration" means ) is WATER BAPTISM.

I know this is directed to LovethroughDove, but I would also like to reply.

Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. Cornelius,not being a Jew, wanted he and his family baptized in water as per John's baptism. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism, not John's according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.
 
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