Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

[Northman]

At least we do know he knew God at one time, but turned from Him until Christ was revealed before him.

That isn't exactly a known either. Not even from reading what is there. It can be a guess, but it can also be a guess that the guy simply lived in Jewish society and knew about God that way because everyone else did. Best not to stake any actual claims based off either understanding(there are more guesses concerning the thief than what has been said here).

 

[Jim Parker]

Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit

Neither did I say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit.

What I said is that being "born of water and the Spirit" refers to the two baptisms; one in water and one in the Holy Spirit.

The Baptism of the household of Cornelius demonstrates that Peter understood that water baptism and Spirit baptism were both essential to becoming a child of God.
The baptism in water of the Ethiopian eunuch demonstrates that water baptism was required to enter the kingdom of God.
It was, from the first day of the Church (Pentecost) a standard requirement to enter into the family of believers, the household of God.

Mar 16:16a He who believes and is baptized will be saved;
(Baptized = βαπτισθεὶς; "is baptized")
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Baptized = ἐβαπτίσθητε "have been baptized")

Baptize per Thayer's Lexicon
STRONGS NT 907: βαπτίζω
βαπτίζω; (imperfect ἐβαπτιζον); future βαπτίσω; 1 aorist ἐβάπτισα; passive (present βαπτίζομαι); imperfect ἐβαπτιζομην; perfect participle βεβαπτισμενος; 1 aorist ἐβαπτίσθην; 1 future βαπτισθήσομαι; 1 aorist middle ἐβαπτισαμην;
Meaning:
1. properly, to dip repeatedly, to immerse, submerge
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water;
3. metaphorically, to overwhelm

In the N. T. it is used particularly of the rite of sacred ablution, first instituted by John the Baptist, afterward by Christ's command received by Christians and adjusted to the contents and nature of their religion (see βάπτισμα, 3), viz., an immersion in water, performed as a sign of the removal of sin, and administered to those who, impelled by a desire for salvation, sought admission to the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom;

 

[chessman]

Please explain how baptizing people in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit has been understood as baptism IN WATER

By changing the command of Jesus. Easy.

Then why does Jesus refer to it as being "born again"?

Because being baptized in the name of the Father and the name of the Son and the name of the Spirit is a rebirth. Easy. Being baptized in water isn’t.

How can one be "born again"?

By first being born of water then second being born of the Spirit.

He must be born of water AND spirit.

Correct.

The "washing of regeneration" is being born again (that's what "regeneration" means ) is WATER BAPTISM.

Nope. It means pálin (again) génesis (birth). And Paul specifically says it is NOT a righteous deed (in the part you snipped out).

3824 paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.​

3824 /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).​

https://biblehub.com/greek/3824.htm​

But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

Titus 3:4-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Titus 3:4-7&version=LEB

 

[JLB]

I agree, but still no reference to water baptism as nowhere in scripture did John baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The disciples were given the commission in Matthew 28:29,

I really don't understand your point.


My point was that just as there is one God, that is expressed in three-fold expression, so also one baptism can certainly be expressed fully by three distinct baptism's that comprise the fullness of one.


I never said anything about John baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


I encourage people to be baptized in the name of Jesus, because that Name carries the fullness of the Godhead.


In you are teaching that it's not necessary to be baptized in water, then we are in disagreement.


I can relate as why, because of your past experience, that you consider it so, but never the less, we should encourage all people to be baptized in water and baptized with the Holy Spirit, just as we should encourage people to love as well as not sin.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Water in vs. 5 is not the amniotic sac that the fetus grows and develops in as how can a baby make a dicision from birth to be Spiritually born again. John 3:5-7 Jesus is teaching Nicodemus about the Spiritual rebirth as it's by God's grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, which is Christ Jesus being the living word (water) in the beginning, John 1:1-4; 4:4-26, come in the flesh of man sent to us by the Spirit that is God. Born of water and Spirit means you by faith believe in Christ and the one who sent Him in order to enter the kingdom of God, John 14:6

?

 

[dirtfarmer]

What about baptism in water and baptism with the Holy Spirit?



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Scripture doesn't teach water baptism for the believer. There is only one "baptism with the Holy Spirit"; that is the point of salvation in which we are placed into the body of Christ.
There is no second baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues. Every time that people spoke in tongues there was Jews present. Those Jews didn't believe that God was saving Gentiles without the law.
Scripture states that tongues were for a sign to those "that believed not". It does not state that those Jews "that believed not" were unbelievers but they didn't believe that God was saving Gentiles without the law.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope when you were called - one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

I just wanted to add this verse into the mix.

 

[JLB]

Scripture doesn't teach water baptism for the believer.

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Acts 8:36-38


The eunuch was a believer.

The eunuch was baptised in water.


again


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



These believers were baptized in water.


Baptizing believers in water is biblical.


All three baptisms are biblical.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope when you were called - one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

I just wanted to add this verse into the mix.

I addressed this verse.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

That isn't exactly a known either. Not even from reading what is there. It can be a guess, but it can also be a guess that the guy simply lived in Jewish society and knew about God that way because everyone else did. Best not to stake any actual claims based off either understanding(there are more guesses concerning the thief than what has been said here).

I'm only going by Luke's account.

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

 

[for_his_glory]

Neither did I say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit.

What I said is that being "born of water and the Spirit" refers to the two baptisms; one in water and one in the Holy Spirit.

The Baptism of the household of Cornelius demonstrates that Peter understood that water baptism and Spirit baptism were both essential to becoming a child of God.
The baptism in water of the Ethiopian eunuch demonstrates that water baptism was required to enter the kingdom of God.
It was, from the first day of the Church (Pentecost) a standard requirement to enter into the family of believers, the household of God.

Mar 16:16a He who believes and is baptized will be saved;
(Baptized = βαπτισθεὶς; "is baptized")
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Baptized = ἐβαπτίσθητε "have been baptized")

Baptize per Thayer's Lexicon
STRONGS NT 907: βαπτίζω
βαπτίζω; (imperfect ἐβαπτιζον); future βαπτίσω; 1 aorist ἐβάπτισα; passive (present βαπτίζομαι); imperfect ἐβαπτιζομην; perfect participle βεβαπτισμενος; 1 aorist ἐβαπτίσθην; 1 future βαπτισθήσομαι; 1 aorist middle ἐβαπτισαμην;
Meaning:
1. properly, to dip repeatedly, to immerse, submerge
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water;
3. metaphorically, to overwhelm

In the N. T. it is used particularly of the rite of sacred ablution, first instituted by John the Baptist, afterward by Christ's command received by Christians and adjusted to the contents and nature of their religion (see βάπτισμα, 3), viz., an immersion in water, performed as a sign of the removal of sin, and administered to those who, impelled by a desire for salvation, sought admission to the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom;

If water baptism is a requirement for salvation then why didn't Jesus baptize anyone in water? What about all those who can not be dunked in water as they are incapacitated, does that mean they will not see the kingdom of God as there is no double standard. Jesus only baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[for_his_glory]

I really don't understand your point.


My point was that just as there is one God, that is expressed in three-fold expression, so also one baptism can certainly be expressed fully by three distinct baptism's that comprise the fullness of one.


I never said anything about John baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


I encourage people to be baptized in the name of Jesus, because that Name carries the fullness of the Godhead.


In you are teaching that it's not necessary to be baptized in water, then we are in disagreement.


I can relate as why, because of your past experience, that you consider it so, but never the less, we should encourage all people to be baptized in water and baptized with the Holy Spirit, just as we should encourage people to love as well as not sin.



JLB

One is one, not distinct of three. How can one also be three?

It has nothing to do with my past experience. I have no problem with being baptized in water the way John did in his ministry calling all to repent first. The water was only a symbol of washing away your sins until Jesus came who now washes us clean by His blood and who now baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and fire, not water.

Water has nothing to do with regeneration as that comes by hearing the word (faith that is Christ Jesus) and by the Spirit of God that we are commanded to be Spiritually born again in order to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

?

You are the one who said water in John 3:5 meant the natural birth in which I disagree. I already explained that in post #158

 

[Razeontherock]

Scripture doesn't teach water baptism for the believer.

Baptism isn't Baptism? There are many accounts of it (in water) throughout the NT. This is quite easy to establish.

Our clearest example remains Jesus' own Baptism; if we think we don't need it, we can always look at Him! He clearly didn't need it but did it anyway, as an example for us.

 

[Jim Parker]

If water baptism is a requirement for salvation then why didn't Jesus baptize anyone in water?

Jhn 3:22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.

What about all those who can not be dunked in water as they are incapacitated, does that mean they will not see the kingdom of God as there is no double standard.

I already answered that. God isn't a jerk who will punish people for not doing what is impossible for them to do. (Like the thief on the cross)

Jesus only baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire.

That is true. Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit.
The disciples of Jesus baptize people in water in obedience to Jesus' command to do so at Mat 28:18-20 and as demonstrated repeatedly in the book of Acts.

Thank you for your comments.
It's been a privilege.

 

[JLB]

One is one, not distinct of three. How can one also be three?

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


The full expression of God is found in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


Paul demonstrated from the Old Testament the three baptism’s.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

• all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

Can we at least agree that there are three baptism’s, even if you don’t agree they are all relevant?



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Scripture doesn't teach water baptism for the believer.

Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:37-38 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Act 10:44-48 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Thank you for your comments.
You are a blessing.

 

[JLB]

You are the one who said water in John 3:5 meant the natural birth in which I disagree. I already explained that in post #158

Ok so do you disagree that in the following verse Jesus said -

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6


Can we agree the context of the discussion is about birth?

Jesus is answering a question from Nicodemus about natural birth.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
John 3:4


So now reading these verses together can we at least agree the context is about natural and spiritual birth?


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:4-6



Jesus then goes on to say -


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12



The earthly thing that points to the spiritual reality is natural birth.



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

Baptism isn't Baptism? There are many accounts of it (in water) throughout the NT. This is quite easy to establish.

Our clearest example remains Jesus' own Baptism; if we think we don't need it, we can always look at Him! He clearly didn't need it but did it anyway, as an example for us.

hello Razeontherock, dirtfarmer here

Why was Jesus baptized? to become saved? NO, it is to fulfill the law. In Leviticus 16:4 we find that the high priest had to completely bath himself before putting on the high priest attire. In order to fulfill that law Jesus had to be baptized before he could become the great heavenly high priest.

It is a travesty to try and compare Jesus' baptism with what people call believers' baptism. Paul wrote there is "one baptism", is that one baptism water or Spirit baptism?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:37-38 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Act 10:44-48 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Thank you for your comments.
You are a blessing.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

Your scripture using Mark was before the death of Christ. Also Mark 16: 9-20 are not found in the best manuscripts, so, should we base beliefs on those controversial verses?

The rest of your texts are taken from the book of the history of transition from law to Grace and not on scripture that was given for the basis of church doctrine.