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THe AntiChrist according to the Church Fathers

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1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

No where in scripture does it speak of just one antichrist, but says even now there are many antichrist and we who are truly in Christ and He in us will know the last one who even now is working in the world secretly, 1 John 2:18-29. The last antichrist, (as there have been many and even now are in the world), is the son of perdition being the false prophet that Satan works through as he will sit on the sides of the North declaring himself as being God and will cause many to bow down to him and take his mark as many will believe the signs and wonders he will show, Isaiah 14:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4; Rev 13. Again, nowhere in scripture does it capitalize antichrist, but mans misinterpretations capitalize it and makes it one Antichrist.

Enoch and Elijah are not the two witnesses in Rev 11 as they are both asleep in their grave. Study Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14. The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

There will never be a third temple built as the Dome of the Rock sits on the temple mount and will be turned over to the son of perdition who is controlled by this antichrist power, Rev 13. God no longer dwells in a temple made by hands as His Spirit dwells in those who are called by His name, Acts 7:48; 17:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17.

We have to remember the timing of the antichrist/son of perdition comes during the timing of the seventh trumpet sounding. During the first six trumpets God will have destroyed much of the worlds resources that are needed to sustain us, although God will provide for His own during this time. There will be no peace or safety as man turns on each other as the whole world is in chaos. All of a sudden there rises a Savior type (antichrist and his son of perdition/false Christ) that promises peace, safety and provision and through lying signs and wonders will cause many to bow down and worship him as they take his mark and those who do not will either be taken captive or die a martyr's death. This antichrist will be like that of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 3. It will not be a Jew as the Early Church saints such as St. Irenaeus, St. Jerome, and St. Ambrose and others hold that the Antichrist will be a Jew as they only speculate without proof.
 
Interesting...
Enoch and Elijah instead of Moses and Elijah.

It is a unique perspective.
Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets who, speaking from the scriptures, bear witness to Christ. (Luk 24:44, Jhn 1:45)

Enoch and Elijah are two men who walked with God and never died. They are killed by the beast from the pit (Rev 11:7) but are raised from the dead and taken up into heaven. (Rev 11:12) Thus they are witnesses to God's holiness, to the evil of the antichrist, to the soon to come general resurrection, and to the coming of Christ when the dead will rise and ascend to meet the Lord in the air. (1Th 4:17)

works for me :shrug

iakov the fool
 
Revelation 11 Two Witnesses

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.
 
No where in scripture does it speak of just one antichrist,
That's not quite accurate.
1Jo 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
but says even now there are many antichrist and we who are truly in Christ and He in us will know the last one who even now is working in the world secretly, 1 John 2:18-29. The last antichrist, (as there have been many and even now are in the world), is the son of perdition being the false prophet that Satan works through.....
:thumbsup RIght
That's the "one". He will be the last, the most powerful, and the most evil. All the others are minor players compared to this one.
There will never be a third temple built
We shall see what we shall see.
All the furnishings and priestly garments have been prepared.
Enoch and Elijah are not the two witnesses in Rev 11 as they are both asleep in their grave.
Neither Enoch nor Elijah died. They were both taken up into heaven alive. (Gen 5:24; 2Ki 2:11)
It will not be a Jew as the Early Church saints such as St. Irenaeus, St. Jerome, and St. Ambrose and others hold that the Antichrist will be a Jew as they only speculate without proof.
So, why is your view of greater value than their teaching? What do you know that these saints did not? :confused

iakov the fool
 
No matter who the antichrist is we should recognise him quite easily. Christ does not touch the earth when He arrives. The saved are taken up in the air to meet Him. The antichrist may try to deceive by imitating this but his feet touch the earth.
 
I think we should have some respect for ancient teachings, and recognize which things have only been spoken of far more recently. Someone taught by the Apostle John, for example, carries more weight than our own opinions.

Notice the similarity in the basic gist of things ...
 
I do have respect. I wasn't saying anything against them. I was merely saying the difference between Christ's coming to earth and the antichrist. Which the bible clearly states and which Jesus Himself described. Not my opinion but what the bible says.
 
I do have respect. I wasn't saying anything against them. I was merely saying the difference between Christ's coming to earth and the antichrist. Which the bible clearly states and which Jesus Himself described. Not my opinion but what the bible says.

My comment wasn't at all directed at you, nor anything you've said. I'm just marvelling at how what the Church has taught since the beginning now seems foreign ...
 
Slight problem.three and half years,they know the day.

Or will this all not quite be that literal? Or will it be impossible to tell when "day 1" is?

There's also the fact of "the days being shortened."

So I don't see this as any sort of conflict within Scripture.
 
in short a post trib position.
Not really.
They had no concept of a pre-mid-post great tribulation "rapture" of the Church. This was the general consensus of the Church long before the modern creation of the 19th century "rapture theology" to which "post trib position" refers.

iakov the fool
 
Christ does not touch the earth when He arrives. The saved are taken up in the air to meet Him.
Jesus is coming only one more time.
Act 1:9-11 (NKJV) Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (not in secret)

Mat 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

When Christ comes again, He will be coming to the earth to judge the earth, to be enthroned, and to stay.

The believers will rise to meet Him as he comes (Resurrected dead and then those who remain alive) and will accompany Him to the earth. It will be like Palm Sunday with all those who are happy to see him praising HIm as King. (Palm Sunday is a type of His second (not 3rd) coming.)

iakov the fool
 
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