Bible Study The authority of the law: Romans 7

[Deborah13]

Rom_8:15 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'

Gal_4:6 and because ye are sons, God did send forth the spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, `Abba, Father!'

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whoa Jethro
I didn't even finish readng your post yet.
You say that any sin we commit simply does not come from a mind set ON THE FLESH, but that it comes from THE FLESH ITSELF, NOT FROM A SIN NATURE.

I've been asking you forever what it is that makes us sin if the sin nature is gone. Your reply to JLB explains to me the fallacy of your understanding - which is:

THE FLESH AND THE SIN NATURE ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING!

So, what you're saying in your 1st pp above, that it's the flesh itself causing us to sin and not the sin nature is theologically incorrect, since they are one and the same thing. In the N.T. you could replace sin nature with flesh and V V. They are one and the same. So if you believe it's the FLESH making us sin, what you're saying is that it's the SIN NATURE that makes us sin.

Wondering

Quoting from Deborah13's post where she quoted John Gill is the best way that I can respond to your assertion that the sin the Christian commits and his old sin nature are one and the same thing:

there is a difference between flesh being in persons, from which none are free in this life, and their being in the flesh

 

[Jethro Bodine]

BY NATURE we are and will always be an object of God's wrath.

That's not what Paul says:

"3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3 NASB)

why would we have to learn if we have killed the sin nature?

Because the flesh itself and it's desires is not what died in Christ--the mind set on those desires and which held us in bondage to those desires is what died in Christ and has been replaced by a mind set on the desires of the Spirit. This truth, this knowledge, is what helps us resist the ghost of our old nature when sinful desires spring up in our flesh.

6 "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with..." (Romans 6:6 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law ...

Not sin nature, dead to the law.

Not only are we dead to the law, but dead to sin, too (Romans 6:6,11 NASB). That's the part you're missing in Paul's discourse which sets the context of Romans 7 and his analogy of marriage. In fact, it's because we are dead to sin that we are then dead to the law....dead to the power and the authority of the law to arouse and provoke sin in us. And as Paul explains that's because the law can no longer exert legal authority to keep us, the wife, bound in a 'marriage' to a husband who has died. That husband being our old mind set on the things of the flesh whom we served like a wife submits to and serves a husband--a relationship the law of Moses enforced like a legal certificate of marriage, not delivered us from.

 

[GodsGrace]

Rom_8:15 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'

Gal_4:6 and because ye are sons, God did send forth the spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, `Abba, Father!'

Hi Deborah
I agree with the above. But what does it all mean to you?
Jesus killed death. But we still die.
Jesus killed sin. But we still sin.

You say we have not received a spirit of bondage again of fear.
FEAR of death is what He killed. O Death, Where Is They Sting?
1 Corinthians 15:55

FEAR of sin is what He killed.
Fear of satan. Fear of being in bondage to sin, of being destroyed by it.
We are STILL going to sin - but the fear of it is gone because Jesus is watching our back - He's there for us - we need not fear hell any longer or the separation from God.

He taught us to cry "abba, Father". So we are sons now. And do sons not "sin" against their fathers? How many times will they stay out late, not do their homework, smoke, lie to them, etc. It's the love the father has of the son that will allow forgiveness of these "sins". It certainly doesn't mean the son will never sin because he loves his father.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Quoting from Deborah13's post where she quoted John Gill is the best way that I can respond to your assertion that the sin the Christian commits and his old sin nature are one and the same thing:

Sorry Jethro. I'm not reading John Gill. I don't do the posting game. I'm explaining to you in my own words and backing them up with scripture, a traditional Christian concept which is accepted by most churches, at least those who wish to remain pure in their thought. Being an intelligent person, you know full well that I could find 100 posts that will not agree with John Gill. Whatever it is he believes.

If you want to do posting, how about this: Let's go back to the early church fathers. The universal church back then, since there was only one. (catholic - meaning universal). Did you ever study how the catholic church got to confession? Stay with me. I was raised catholic so I know their theology really well, having also taught there.

So Jesus gives authority to the apostle's to go into all the world and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and to preach unto all nations the good news. He also gives the apostles the authority to forgive sins in John 20:23 (I don't agree - no posts please). He also promises to send the Holy Spirit who will guide in all and indwell believers. Acts 2:4

So good. But now what happens? All these spirit filled people are still sinning! How could this be? So the church of that time had to figure out a way to deal with sin AFTER the person was saved and baptized. That way was confession. First to each other, then publicly, then privately. This took hundreds of years and different tries. I don't have my notes anymore but it's all available at Prof. Google, I'm sure.

So you see, we're still sinning. I said that if you explained what causes us to STILL SIN if the sin nature is dead, I'd concede to wording. You gave the explanation that it's the FLESH that is making us still sin. Okay. This is how you want to understand it. But what's making the flesh sin? You see Jethro, you're not going back far enough. You have to go back to the Garden of Eden.

So for any readers that are new Christians, you've given an explanation. Okay. As long as they don't think they're still sinning because they're not saved. This was my concern all along.

Also, it's important to say that because Jesus nailed the Law to the cross and because we still have the sin nature, or are still in the flesh (I think as you would say) it also doesn't mean we are to continue in sinning.

Having said all that, I love you and rest my case.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Yes Smaller. I see where you're coming from. I agree totally. Even with your last two sentences.
I don't know about being put here purposefully with Divine intent together with the evil one.

Probably would make a good conversation for another thread, but scriptures do address these matters at length. 1 Cor. 15:41-49 for example shows us we are factually planted in weakness, corruption, dishonor in a body that is doomed to die.

Can something not good come from God? Which is why at stop at "where does satan come from."

There is no question that evil serves Gods Purposes. And that God Is powerful enough to make good come of it, regardless. The early lesson on this one was with Joseph and his brothers. "God meant it for good" even though their actions were evil. I have been treated to a sufficient amount of evil as well, and have seen good come of it on many fronts. Patience and longsuffering are Divine virtues.

He does ALLOW evil though. OTOH, your understanding of this could work in explaining evil, but it breaks one of the three omni's, doesn't it? God is omnipotent. No power to do away with the evil? Why would He want it?

Whatever evil does transpire transpires under His Sights without any doubt. So it violates nothing of the Om's. There is a strong fairytale notion in some camps of Christianity that says God can't be in the presence of evil/sin, which to me is absurd.

Plus, He has to be all good, no? Yes. This is mysterious to me and I have no answer and have been looking for MANY years. So I just accept. But I do agree with the difference you explain. sin vs sins.

It's problematic to take our notions of "good" and apply them to God. God Is Perfect. Problem is exactly none of us really know what that means. We are left to our imaginations. I've used this one many times for those who make the scripturally non existing claim that Satan was perfect. Uh, yeah, a perfect devil in all his ways. So putting the word perfect in front of Satan didn't really make Satan perfect in any good senses of the term.

Jesus said even though in your thought you lust, or in your hate you kill ... Mathew 5:21-22 and Mathew 5:27
(or VV). So yes, wretched man that I am, what will save me from this body of death? Romans 7:24

And this is why we need Jesus. So God will see Him and not us.

I generally reject this one sided sight, even though I would like to see it that way. It's more complex than that. IF we are bound in the flesh with evil, which we are, then God has every right to treat that evil accordingly regardless, at least in the temporal senses.

But some might take this idea to mean that Jesus did not win satan and sin. It's all words after all. Humans trying to explain and understand spirit.

Wondering

As it pertains to this thread we know this about the laws. They were laid upon the lawless and sinners. They were laid upon ALL mankind, not just Israel. They were meant to provoke sin to reveal itself, particularly internally. And they give sin it's power to react adversely. There is a reverse form of power in Gods Words of Law that both Israel and the churches have long overlooked in these matters. The Laws are actually meant to BRING sin and evil to their full discourse in preparation for final judgments of the devil and his messengers.

God IS Willing to show His Wrath. Are we able to go there?

Romans 9:
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

If we know, and we do, that all the worlds ills revolves around sin/evil and the devil and his messengers, then WHY NOT provoke them to the uttermost for THEIR final put away? I think that is perfectly logical myself.

 

[smaller]

Right. It has to do with whether or not you still are 'in the flesh' having the nature of sin. If you are still in the flesh you are being controlled by the sin nature.

Paul's flesh served the law of sin after salvation. Romans 7:25. And this, regardless of what else he did. The flesh remains contrary to the Spirit regardless, Gal. 5:17, and it does so because of indwelling sin. Paul disassociated "indwelling sin" to even be himself, and recognized that it was not even him. Romans 7:17-21.

Every believer who vainly tries to justify their entirety is wasting their breath. God does see us as we are regardless. There is no use painting a phony picture in the light of scriptural facts. When we do that indwelling sin has actually WON and turned us into lying hypocrites. Better to stand on the ground of honesty, even if the conclusions are unpleasant to the inherent pride of the flesh which is the spawn of indwelling sin and evil present.

That's what it means to have the nature of something. You're programmed by nature to be something, regardless of how you may act to the contrary. Maybe people aren't getting what it means to be something 'by nature'.

No ones indwelling sin/evil present is about to be responsible or accountable. It's foolishness to think otherwise. See the above. We all have and bear what is contrary to the Spirit, period. And as such this sight of honesty will garner a little more respect for God because He does have the right to deal with us on either side of the ledgers no matter how rosy we paint up our flesh or how good we "act."

Our indwelling sin didn't get a "new nature." If anything the opposite transpires.

We ask God to ignore our sin and punish the sins of others. We ask God to not deal with the fact that we have evil present with us while we whine for justice and judgments about everyone else's evil.

And in all of this we are merely deeper pawns of indwelling sin in lying hypocrisy who can't even see ourselves honestly.

"Oh, my indwelling sin and evil present has a new nature!"

Indeed it does. And not a good one.

 

[smaller]

Are you suggesting that you have made zero progress toward not sinning in thought or deed?

Indwelling sin and evil present does what IT does. I have no need to lie to God about it.

I understand these are contrary to the Spirit. Yet I have to "deal" with this present reality, regardless of "how" much I'd like that to not be the case. There was never a sinless flesh promised in the Gospels nor were we excused from the facts of having evil present with us no matter how good we get at HIDING IT or claiming it to be "legally obedient" or "under Grace" or "unseen" because THAT did not happen and never will.

Zero progress signifies that a change of nature has not occurred.

Oh yes, my nature has indeed changed. I'm not a liar about the facts. Nor do I have to "put on otherwise" when in the presence of others who are likewise fond of acting otherwise. I have a great detest for hypocrisy, particularly in myself.

It does not signify that the two natures are somehow co-existing with each other and the old one is ruling. That's saying we have both a mind set on the desires of the flesh, and a mind set on the desires of the Spirit. But Paul makes it clear that the believer has the mind set on the Spirit. That is our new nature. Our old nature was a mind set on the flesh.

Trying to escape truthful conclusions has never suited me. I found honesty to be a far better alternative.

He says we are NOT in the flesh anymore by virtue of having the Spirit within us. He did not say we are not in the flesh when we obey the Spirit. He said we have the mind of the Spirit by having the Spirit.

Uh, no, that was never dangled out.

We do have indwelling sin and evil present with us that is adverse to the LAWs of God and this is contrary to the Spirit, period. And equally sure is that none of this is "under Grace" or "overlooked in the Name of Jesus." Nope.

 

[JLB]

That husband being our old mind set on the things of the flesh whom we served like a wife submits to and serves a husband--a relationship the law of Moses enforced like a legal certificate of marriage, not delivered us from.

Before, the husband was the sin nature. Since several people have shown you how the sin nature is not dead, but still produces sinful desires, now you have changed your terminology, and the husband is an "old mind set", which Paul never used the phrase -
"mind set", rather he stated that we should set our minds on thing above.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh...

The husband that died is not a mindset that we were married to.

WE, ourselves must put forth the effort to set our mind on things above, where Christ Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.

4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

again

Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:11

We are to consider ourselves as dead to sin, and we are to set our mind on things above, we are to not let sin reign in our bodies, we are to put to death the deeds of the body, by the Spirit.


These are all things we are required to do, to walk in the newness of the life of Christ.


Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. Colossians 3:5-11

As long as we continue in the faith, then the Spirit of Christ within us, empowers us to walk in victory over the sin nature dwelling in our flesh.

However, we ourselves must put on the new man, and put off the old.

...that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:22-24


We are to deny the old man the things which empower him to express himself.

Ungodly sights and sounds and images, stimulate the old man, to the old desires of sin.

Fasting and praying, and being set apart unto God, in a consistent manner is the best way I have found to reign and rule over the old carnal nature.



JLB

 

[smaller]

The above is for Smaller. Don't know if he answered.

But I'd like to say the because one believes we retain the sin nature it doesn't mean that we're not making progress toward not sinning in thought or deed.

I absolutely detest being gamed by indwelling sin and evil present. If we have awareness of this opposing working it does help to keep it contained, but NOT eliminated. Containment is the best we have presently.

But I detest even more being turned into a lying hypocrite about it. I refuse to let indwelling sin and evil present do that to me. It's not going to happen.

I do understand that the same LIGHT of Gods Words causes me to grow in His Grace, and yet this has an opposite effect on indwelling sin and evil present with ME.

Two plants are growing in the same ground. Only one of these plants is moving on. I not only understand, but know by experience that the TARE grows in my own vile body. It's not the other guy who doesn't believe "like me."

I could write on this subject at length from the scriptures, but few see themselves in this manner. They can't because they are "overshadowed" by the other plant.

But the Promises of Jesus are sure. When we "emerge" from the "ground of darkness" THEN appears to us, the TARE. And that appearing is in our own ground.

Matthew 13:26
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

We have also been promised by Jesus to not let these tares be disturbed as they grow, as this would mean our own destruction.

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

That's where the learning comes in, which you mentioned and I answered to in post no. 257. You yourself say we have to learn. Again, why would we have to learn if we have killed the sin nature?

The sin nature is not killed. Paul found for himself the opposite conclusion. 1 Tim. 1:15.

Since a couple people are fond of analogies I'll toss out an analogy I'm fond of. I'm a golfer. I had a single digit handicap when I was in my late 40-s early 50's. And worked very hard at honing my skills to do that....

BUT any little flaw in my game causing me to add a stroke, to me is now IMMENSE because it means I'm not PERFECT.

This is the same relationship I have with indwelling sin and evil present. I can not tolerate the slightest imperfection. Yet to say I do not have them makes me a lying hypocrite, which is even LESS tolerable and even MORE abhorrent. I will not be made into a liar by that working. NO! To do that is to LOSE the battle of honesty. If anything I'll go the other way just to emphasize my freedom in HONESTY. Even more harshly than the extreme criticism I apply to my golf game.

Please remember that sin nature and flesh is the same idea when Paul is speaking. Remember that he's speaking to Christians. He exhorts them not to sin.

The same guy, Paul, who said SIN NOT simultaneously openly admitted to being the chief of sinners, post salvation!

There is an easy answer to this conundrum, but the conclusion to get there is not pleasant whatsoever.

I do understand that whatever indwelling sin does, whatever evil present does, is in fact OF THE DEVIL. I understand the location of my adversary is in my own flesh/mind and heart. Therefore I question EVERY thought. And I found out long ago that not all of my thoughts are MINE. They are however "mine" to deal with.

Hebrews 10:26
Paul is speaking to Christians sinning willfully. How do we sin willfully if the sin nature/flesh is gone?
In post 235 you say:
As believers we no longer have the mind that drives sinful desires.

Never made that statement. Post 235 is from Jethro. I'd never make a statement like that cause I know better.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There was never a sinless flesh promised in the Gospels nor were we excused from the facts of having evil present with us no matter how good we get at HIDING IT or claiming it to be "legally obedient" or "under Grace" or "unseen" because THAT did not happen and never will.

That's not what not having a sin nature means. It does not mean we become sinless. It means we are no longer owned and controlled by a mind set on the things of the flesh, like a wife is to her husband and a slave to their master.

Before, the husband was the sin nature. Since several people have shown you how the sin nature is not dead, but still produces sinful desires, now you have changed your terminology, and the husband is an "old mind set"

Sin nature -- mind set on the things of the flesh: One and the same thing.

Oh yes, my nature has indeed changed. I'm not a liar about the facts. Nor do I have to "put on otherwise" when in the presence of others who are likewise fond of acting otherwise. I have a great detest for hypocrisy, particularly in myself.

Not having the sin nature doesn't mean pretending you don't sin. It means not HAVING to sin because we are in bondage to sin like a woman is in submissive bondage to a husband. That is what ended....our bondage to sin because of having the nature that requires that of us. If we are in bondage to sin after receiving a new nature that desires righteousness it can be for several reasons but it definitely is not because you are still in bondage to a mind set on the things of the flesh.

Our indwelling sin didn't get a "new nature." If anything the opposite transpires.

Lol, correct, our indwelling sin did not get a 'new nature'. WE did....if we believe in Christ. The old mind set on the things of the flesh got replaced by a mind set on the things of the Spirit. Paul says if you still have a mind set on the things of the flesh (what he calls being 'in the flesh') you simply do not have the Spirit of God in you and you do not belong to him. Of course, you're probably hearing that as 'you won't sin anymore'. But what it means is you don't HAVE to sin anymore like a wife has to obey and submit to husband.

 

[JLB]

Sin nature -- mind set on the things of the flesh: One and the same thing.

We are to "set" [verb] our mind on things that are Godly.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh... Romans 8:5

This is a verb, it is something we do.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5 KJV

Mind here is a verb. If we mind the things of the flesh, then that is something we do.

A mind set is a thing. A Noun.


JLB

 

[smaller]

That's not what not having a sin nature means. It does not mean we become sinless.

Brilliant deduction. To even make such a claim essentially means the person making such claims is an automatic liar.

It means we are no longer owned and controlled by a mind set on the things of the flesh, like a wife is to her husband and a slave to their master.

Yes, and to be clear that by no means equates to sinlessness or elimination of sin or not having sin indwelling the flesh or not having evil present with us. The point in question is this: The LAW and Gods Word/Spirit in general does relate adversely to this part of our present construct, which is also factually adverse to and contrary to the Spirit.

Sin nature -- mind set on the things of the flesh: One and the same thing.

Whether the mind is set on the matter or not makes no difference. A mind being set in truth will see this matter truthfully.

Not having the sin nature doesn't mean pretending you don't sin. It means not HAVING to sin

No one stopped being a sinner to begin with. I don't get the notion of "not having to sin" when sin indwelling the flesh and evil present is a "present tense" matter of fact. Your sight keeps fast forwarding to the "external actions" of sinNING which is entirely irrelevant. The external actions of sin completes the course of sin from thought to word to deed, but the indwelling sin/evil present was there every step of the way regardless of it's courses.

because we are in bondage to sin like a woman is in submissive bondage to a husband. That is what ended....our bondage to sin

The sin in Paul's own flesh maintained it's adversarial relationship with the "law of sin" Romans 7:25, which same was in contrariness to the Spirit, Gal. 5:17, after salvation and continuing til the day he actually did die physically. Romans 6:7

Indwelling sin and evil present is NOT married to Jesus, that is for sure.

because of having the nature that requires that of us. If we are in bondage to sin after receiving a new nature that desires righteousness it can be for several reasons but it definitely is not because you are still in bondage to a mind set on the things of the flesh.

Reigning over it is one thing. Claiming it's so called marriage to Jesus or alignment with the Spirit is quite another matter altogether.

IF the Law condemned sin, IF the Law condemned evil, then so does JESUS. The Word of God in Law and the Word of God in Grace is identical in this regards.

Lol, correct, or indwelling sin did not get a 'new nature'. WE did....

Indwelling sin and evil present did not get a new nature. Divide from there. Try to drag the whole equation through the knothole of Grace is an utter fail of honesty.

if we believe in Christ.

None of that is relevant to the discourse of factually having sin indwelling the flesh or factually having evil present, neither of which benefit from belief.

The Law and Grace remain against evil and sin, period.

 

[Deborah13]

Jethro asks
Are you by nature an object of God's wrath, or were you?

BY NATURE we are and will always be an object of God's wrath.

When I read this I thought of the 'Abba Father' scriptures.
I don't agree that as sons/daughters we are the object of God's Wrath. We are the object of His love. He corrects us because He loves us. We love Him because He first loved us. A child who is never corrected is not loved and is not a son.

He taught us to cry "abba, Father". So we are sons now. And do sons not "sin" against their fathers? How many times will they stay out late, not do their homework, smoke, lie to them, etc. It's the love the father has of the son that will allow forgiveness of these "sins". It certainly doesn't mean the son will never sin because he loves his father.

Yes, we do sin against our Father. Our love is not perfected in our flesh. It takes time, patience, diligence, prayer, and the Word for our flesh to catch up to what God already has done in our spirit when He begot the new creature that we are. "Father, please help me to love others as you have loved me."
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[reba]

I am not picking on anyone.. Sometimes when i read the threads i see the surface bickering... yet in depth most of us are saying the same thing...

 

[smaller]

I am not picking on anyone.. Sometimes when i read the threads i see the surface bickering... yet in depth most of us are saying the same thing...

I'll give you credit for being honest Reba. Probably the best I've seen in the thread so far. Particularly in post #250:

Is our sin nature dead? Boom Slam Dunk... or does it die over a span of time... ? In myself i can see some sinful thoughts / ideas just did drop dead others have revived at times...

It was the same for me when I began to examine WHY this was so. And then I managed to read and SEE Paul's statements from Romans 7 and applied them personally, and found out he had the identical problem. Didn't make me feel any better about it, but at least Paul was honest about sin indwelling his own flesh and the evil present with him.

That was also when I quit trying to hide my indwelling sin and evil present from God in Christ as well. He knows how we're put together, so there is no fooling Him anyway. It's much easier to see these things as "NO LONGER I" just as Paul saw it. Then our expectations are where they should be.

I don't expect the sin indwelling my own flesh or the evil present with me to react in any way but CONTRARY to God in Christ and Gods Law(s) because that is reality. And this same principle will be shown by God in Christ to anyone who has been given the fruit of honesty from Above.

It's the opposite of a 'spoon full of sugar' for sure.

 

[Deborah13]

Paul found for himself the opposite conclusion. 1 Tim. 1:15.

The same guy, Paul, who said SIN NOT simultaneously openly admitted to being the chief of sinners, post salvation!

I do agree with some of the things you have said but this one, not at all. Paul is not saying that he is still a foremost sinner after his conversion. I must respect the language (words) that Paul used.
chief = G4413
prōtos
pro'-tos
Contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.
G4253
G4253
πρό
pro
pro
A primary preposition; “fore”, that is, in front of, prior (figuratively superior) to. In compounds it retains the same significations: - above, ago, before, or ever. In compounds it retains the same significations.

superlative adjective -
There are two types of adjectives that are used when comparing two or more nouns These are comparative adjectives and superlative adjectives.
http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/p...uperlative-adjective.html#Lvd9rcthW306LTTz.99

So in context - Young's Literal Translation
1Ti 1:15 stedfast is the word, and of all acceptation worthy, that Christ Jesus came to the world to save sinners--first of whom I am;
1Ti 1:16 but because of this I found kindness, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long-suffering, for a pattern of those about to believe on him to life age-during:
Paul is saying that Christ came to save sinners and even (comparing himself to other sinners the Christ came to save) he was a foremost sinner, a super sinner when compared to most others. Paul mentions in other places how he persecuted Christians even causing them to be put to death (Stephan), he blasphemed this very Jesus in whom he found kindness, mercy.
He is not saying that he is still, after conversion, the foremost sinner.
He says 'I am' one of those sinners who Christ saved even though my sin was the most sinful. He is making the point that if God in His mercy will save one like him, He will save any sinner.

 

[Deborah13]

Sorry Jethro. I'm not reading John Gill. I don't do the posting game. I'm explaining to you in my own words

I would quote you if your words expressed my own thoughts better than I could myself, which would not be unlikely. I don't always write with clarity.
In this case John Gill expressed my own thoughts better than I could.

 

[Douglas Summers]

So because i sin the devil is in me?

Hi, No, we sin because it is our Adamic nature. We sin when we are enticed and tempted, being drawn away by our own lust and desires. Then when we give into our lustful desires it brings forth sin....and sin brings forth death. Satan is the tempter.