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The Bible Doesn't Say Anything

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Papa Zoom

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#1
Put a Bible on a coffee table, let it sit there and wait for it to speak. You'll be there all day. It says nothing because it's a Book with paper and filled with words. Words from God to be sure, but readers read to comprehend. That is the purpose of reading: To understand what is written. But it is YOU who is doing the reading and inferring from the Text. The Text isn't forcing you to think or believe the way you do.

People post verses to support their POV. Quoting verses and telling others what it means isn't proving your case. The Bible doesn't say anything. You have to infer the meaning from the text. Once you do that, it's not the Bible that's doing the talking, you are.

It seems many people are self-proclaimed biblical experts. Many people claimed to "know" the truth even though their claims differ from other "truth tellers."

Each side claims the other is ignoring the Scriptures or misunderstanding them. And on and on and on.

No one has a perfect theology and all of us has something wrong in our beliefs. We read the Bible and often have a knee jerk reaction to the meaning of the text. The Bible says it, and that's good enough for me!

Well as I said, no Bible has never said anything.
 

for_his_glory

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#3
What we say has to line up with what is written, not by what others are speaking. Rationalization and second guessing has no place when the words we read in scripture are in fact what God has already spoken and written down that we need to read what is written word by word, verse by verse and chapter by chapter, but most important is word by word to gain all understanding of what God wants for us to learn.
 
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#4
good posts.

Honestly, one reason I now and then think about joining up w/ the RCC is because...well, thru The Magisterium and centuries of tradition, dogma, etc., they have thoughtful analysis and answers for...everything, it seems. Compare that to the Protestant realm, where the "priesthood of all believers" sometimes devolves into shouting matches, church splits, conflicts at the denominational levels, the occasional sect or straight up cult...on and on it goes.

--sigh-- I don't know about the RCC, but I do think there is something to be said for having an authority structure in place, so individuals can't go crazy with ego-driven interpretations of Scripture and all that jazz.
 

Papa Zoom

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#5
Yup the Bible says :tongue

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
What you actually mean by saying that is you open your Bible to that specific passage and those are the words that were recorded. Being able to read, you read them. We're you not able to read, it would be like me trying to read a Chinese Bible. Meaningless.

While the words are Truth and from God, the Bible doesn't "say it." The Bible isn't a book. It's a collection of books, in this case, a letter.

But there's more: the words you read were not in the original. Because the original wasn't written in English.

My point, which is correct, is that the Bible doesn't "speak" except in the metaphorical sense. We use the word "speak" to convey something else. The words are from God. Yes. But notice that people often post a verse and then go on to explain it. I see this all the time. I find that amusing that the Bible speaks so plainly it needs to be explained.

Your post isn't fair to my point since I'm saying that the reader reads the words and filters (as best the can) those words to get to the meaning.

What did the author intend to mean when those words were recorded? That's where we come in and muddy the waters. Just look at this forum and you'll see disagreement after disagreement. The words recorded in the Bible are not the problem: we are.
 

Papa Zoom

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#6
What we say has to line up with what is written, not by what others are speaking. Rationalization and second guessing has no place when the words we read in scripture are in fact what God has already spoken and written down that we need to read what is written word by word, verse by verse and chapter by chapter, but most important is word by word to gain all understanding of what God wants for us to learn.
And yet the Bible is not word by word because many words don't translate well. Baptism is one such word as there was no English equivalent for that word.

How are you going to know that what you say lines up with exactly what is written? And why do you have to say anything at all? Just quote the Bible and say nothing else. Why not that?
 

Papa Zoom

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#7
good posts.

Honestly, one reason I now and then think about joining up w/ the RCC is because...well, thru The Magisterium and centuries of tradition, dogma, etc., they have thoughtful analysis and answers for...everything, it seems. Compare that to the Protestant realm, where the "priesthood of all believers" sometimes devolves into shouting matches, church splits, conflicts at the denominational levels, the occasional sect or straight up cult...on and on it goes.

--sigh-- I don't know about the RCC, but I do think there is something to be said for having an authority structure in place, so individuals can't go crazy with ego-driven interpretations of Scripture and all that jazz.
Some go to the Orthodox and RCC for those very reasons. You still have someone else telling you what to believe.
 
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#9
Have we already forgotten the purpose of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth. Did Christ die and left us all alone without a Counsellor.

God, the Truth, is inconceivable. The only way to conceive what is inconceivable is if God wills to reveal Himself to you.

The bible contains scripture which holds the Truth. We alone can only read its story, but miss its inconceivable Truths. It is in our faith in Christ/God/Truth which brings us out of our self-will (humbled). In this humbled state of faith, we become unconditional to receiving God's will for us via the Spirit of Truth. Whatever scripture we read from the bible, if we are unconditionally prepared, and to God's will, the inconceivable Truth becomes conceivable. That is why they say that scriptures are revelations.

To say that the bible doesn't say anything, is saying that it remains inconceivable.
To say that it is up to the individual to interpret the inconceivable is misleading, without implying God's will and not self-will to do so.
 

ezra

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#10
good posts.

Honestly, one reason I now and then think about joining up w/ the RCC is because...well, thru The Magisterium and centuries of tradition, dogma, etc., they have thoughtful analysis and answers for...everything, it seems. Compare that to the Protestant realm, where the "priesthood of all believers" sometimes devolves into shouting matches, church splits, conflicts at the denominational levels, the occasional sect or straight up cult...on and on it goes.

--sigh-- I don't know about the RCC, but I do think there is something to be said for having an authority structure in place, so individuals can't go crazy with ego-driven interpretations of Scripture and all that jazz.
RCC is all about vain traditions
 

Nick

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#11
RCC is all about vain traditions
The institution, perhaps. We must be careful of judging Brothers and Sisters under that roof.

We must also be careful to not let this get into a Catholic discussion, per the ToS. :)
 

Nick

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#12
To say that the bible doesn't say anything, is saying that it remains inconceivable.
To say that it is up to the individual to interpret the inconceivable is misleading, without implying God's will and not self-will to do so.
I tend to agree. While I'm sure Papa isn't diminishing the role of the Holy Spirit in helping us interpret and understand the Bible, it could be easy to come to that conclusion.

Yes, everyone comes to their own conclusion based on their interpretation. But there is an absolute truth in there. Sadly in this sinful age we can not gain the entire picture. That will come later.

We must pray for understanding. We have a helper.
 

Papa Zoom

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#13
I have full confidence in the Holy Spirit. I have little in man. 4 men say were led by the Holy Spirit to such an such understanding on some issue or question. Each man offers a different explanation. Each says they are simply following what the Bible "says.". Something is wrong here.
 

ezra

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#15
The institution, perhaps. We must be careful of judging Brothers and Sisters under that roof.

We must also be careful to not let this get into a Catholic discussion, per the ToS. :)
yup it amazes me a person can post all day long about any other but not rcc
 
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#16
I disagree with some of what the rcc teaches--the stuff about mary, in particular, is troubling, as are the teachings on purgatory--but, hey: at least they have a solid, time-honored authority structure. what do Protestants have?
 

Papa Zoom

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#20
Maybe when we can discuss other topics without going hateful that other discussion might happen
Yes, I agree.

My only point in this thread is that we ought to recognize our role in interpretation. Call it whatever you like. I read the Bible and it "says" something to me. But it's my brain that is decoding the words and my brain that is assigning meaning to the text. Yes, the Holy Spirit is a guide toward truth but most of us get something wrong in our theology. Most of us have slightly changed or altered our view on something in the Bible. I used to believe that baptism was part of what saves a person. I no longer do. What changed? We all get in the way of fully understanding what God has communicated in that book.

If you think this title is provocative, wait until the next one. I'll probably get burned at the stake! :eek2
 
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