The Church reigning with Him on Earth.

[JLB]

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-6

• And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The context of this takes place at His coming, which is shown in the previous chapter.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16



There are 3 scriptural facts that concern the coming of the Lord to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, in which once these 3 things are known, there is no more confusion about this subject.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
2. The Rapture.
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Then He will take His place on His throne in Jerusalem, as King over the whole earth.



JLB

 

[reba]

Jesus is King..

 

[JLB]

Jesus is King..

Yes, and He will soon remove the wicked from this earth, and take His place on the Throne of David in Jerusalem.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17

The context of this is at His coming, when He returns with His saints.

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:5-7

 

[Cygnus]

The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
2. The Rapture.
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Then He will take His place on His throne in Jerusalem, as King over the whole earth.

Considering the rapture is pre-trig, then #3 will not happen at that time but 7 years later.

 

[JLB]

Considering the rapture is pre-trig, then #3 will not happen at that time but 7 years later.

We all have the choice to either believe what the scriptures say, or not.


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.



Can you at least agree that the scriptures teach us the lawless one will be destroyed at His coming; by the brightness of His coming?



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

Yes, one moment prior.

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

The rapture happens before this event...11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True,

In other words, when Christ comes on the horse...this is 7 years later.

 

[JLB]

Yes, one moment prior.



The rapture happens before this event...11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True,

In other words, when Christ comes on the horse...this is 7 years later.

The rapture takes place after the resurrection, at His coming.
The resurrection takes place at His coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

• the dead in Christ will rise first.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

The resurrection and rapture happen at the coming of the Lord, in which both will be caught up together.



JLB

 

[Eugene]

Yew, the rest that is being referred to here is the 1000 years we will be here with Christ on earth, without a body of sin, but a new glorified body that is sinless and immortal, with no enemies on earth, because they have been removed.

Thanks JLB for starting this thread. I'm going to begin by addressing a comment in the quote above from another thread stating that we of the Church will be here on the earth with Jesus during the millennium if I'm understanding you correctly.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

In this verse you quoted of Rev 20:4, can you see that there are two different groups; one group on thrones, and the second group raised to life. And before I go too far, do you believe the Church will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air as we read of in 1 Th 4:16-17 many refer to as the rapture?
If you don't mind I'd like to go through this a portion at a time. Thanks.

 

[JLB]

In this verse you quoted of Rev 20:4, can you see that there is two different groups; one group on thrones, and the second group raised to life. And before I go too far, do you believe the Church will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air as we read of in 1 Th 4:16-17 many refer to as the rapture?
If you don't mind I'd like to go through this a portion at a time. Thanks.

Yes, those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will be caught up with the dead in Christ who are resurrected before the Raptured ones, in which both will be caught up together, to be with the Lord, as He is descending from Heaven to earth, specifically to the mount of olives.

He will gather all His people, from all over the earth, to be with Him in the air, on His way to Jerusalem.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

• the dead in Christ will rise first
  
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

He will gather all His people, in heaven and on earth, together to be with Him, at His coming.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:26-27

• from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven

JLB

 

[Nathan]

Yes, those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will be caught up with the dead in Christ who are resurrected before the Raptured ones, in which both will be caught up together, to be with the Lord, as He is descending from Heaven to earth, specifically to the mount of olives.

He will gather all His people, from all over the earth, to be with Him in the air, on His way to Jerusalem.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

• the dead in Christ will rise first
  
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

He will gather all His people, in heaven and on earth, together to be with Him, at His coming.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:26-27

• from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven

JLB

I think what you say is really crucial to understand. We will be caught up to meet Him in the air. That means, He is going to gather us to Himself - and it is not going to be us gathering ourselves to Him.

Mat 24:23-27
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

I think many will be led astray to think that the antichrist is truly the one. The simple fact that Jesus specifically told us to not 'go' to where ever people are saying He is, should give us a good indication that when He comes - we will know it - and He will gather us to Himself.

Lots of people who believe in some pre-tribulation rapture are going to be fooled. Hopefully, some will see the plain language and heed the warning.

 

[Eugene]

In this verse you quoted of Rev 20:4, can you see that there are two different groups; one group on thrones, and the second group raised to life. And before I go too far, do you believe the Church will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air as we read of in 1 Th 4:16-17 many refer to as the rapture?

Yes, those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will be caught up with the dead in Christ who are resurrected before the Raptured ones, in which both will be caught up together, to be with the Lord, as He is descending from Heaven to earth, specifically to the mount of olives.
He will gather all His people, from all over the earth, to be with Him in the air, on His way to Jerusalem.

If Jesus meets us in the air, and we are gathered to Him, where do you read of Him reigning on this earth during the thousand years? Are we to be caught up, and then immediately come back to earth? Now I'm talking before the millennium after the beast has been destroyed, Satan has been locked up, and the Great Commision has begun to the nations. Now Jesus has all authority and power, He has received His own throne in Rev 4:2, and He will be ruling according to what Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 is showing John. I'll stop here before getting this too long at the beginning.

 

[Cygnus]

There are actuall two commings of Christ..so to speak.
The first is at the rapture where Jesus comes in the clouds the same way He left and a second coming on a white horse...which is not the way the bible describes Jesus as leaving during His ascension .

Acts 1:11....This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

 

[Nathan]

There are actuall two commings of Christ..so to speak.
The first is at the rapture where Jesus comes in the clouds the same way He left and a second coming on a white horse...which is not the way the bible describes Jesus as leaving during His ascension .

Acts 1:11....This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

In your theory, when He comes on a white horse do we go to meet Him in the air?

 

[Cygnus]

In your theory, when He comes on a white horse do we go to meet Him in the air?

No. That event happened at the rapture. Many think at that time when Christ comes on the white horse we'll be on the horses following Christ.

 

[Nathan]

No. That event happened at the rapture. Many think at that time we'll be on the horses following Christ.

So, if I were to see a man coming on a white horse with horses following him - should I assume that it is Christ and I have missed the first/second coming of Christ?

 

[Eugene]

There are actuall two commings of Christ..so to speak.

Would you consider those that John sees of the Church arriving in heaven, to be separate raptures as it were? To my understanding John sees the twenty-four elders with Jesus round about His throne in Rev 4:4, and the four beasts in the midst of, and round about Jesus' throne in Rev 4:6, and this is prior to the tribulation even beginning.

A second group are those of Rev 7:9 which are the Great Multitude which stand before the throne, and are caught up out of great tribulation according to Rev 7:14, and last are the one hundred and forty-four thousand of Rev 14:1 sometime near the middle of the week.
Thanks.

 

[Cygnus]

So, if I were to see a man coming on a white horse with horses following him - should I assume that it is Christ and I have missed the first/second coming of Christ?

provided you survive the tribulation.

 

[Cygnus]

Would you consider those that John sees of the Church arriving in heaven, to be separate raptures as it were? To my understanding John sees the twenty-four elders with Jesus round about His throne in Rev 4:4, and the four beasts in the midst of, and round about Jesus' throne in Rev 4:6, and this is prior to the tribulation even beginning.

A second group are those of Rev 7:9 which are the Great Multitude which stand before the throne, and are caught up out of great tribulation according to Rev 7:14, and last are the one hundred and forty-four thousand of Rev 14:1 sometime near the middle of the week.
Thanks.

because when I read....Acts 1:11....This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”.....which describes Jesus' ascension..it doesn't sound like the return on the white horse.

 

[Nathan]

because when I read....Acts 1:11....This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”.....which describes Jesus' ascension..it doesn't sound like the return on the white horse.

Do you believe all the book of Revelation is literal?

 

[Cygnus]

Do you believe all the book of Revelation is literal?

I believe some of the book of Revelation can be taken as literal. Keep in mind John was trying to explain to us things of Gods dimension.