Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

The coming final judgment !

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
S

savedbygrace57

Guest
Many today have corrupted the word of God through their denial of its truthfulness, and the things that it predicts that shall happen. Two things that the word predicts is the coming again of Jesus Christ to Judge the world and the final punishment of the wicked, those not loved by God, and chosen to be vessels of wrath and fitted for destruction, and that everlastingly..



Rev 20:



11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.





12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.





13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.



14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Vs 12 tells us here that the time is coming when all the dead, both small and great shall stand before God to be Judged !



Both Wicked and Good will be involved in this Judgment per dan 12:











1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



The same event Jesus speaks of here too Jn 5:



28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves[The dead] shall hear his voice,



29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



John was given to see all the who had died physically from Adam until the end of time..



This will be a very special and momentous time in the History of the World..



This scene also is spoken of by Jesus Christ in matt 25:31-46, So scripture confirms scripture of this event that is very soon to happen, I personally believe to occur in this present generation, yes I believe this is the final generation of mankind for the history of the world..
 
The scripture you used is speaking of the final judgement and the second resurrection. The first resurrection of the Elect there is no judgement for them. The first is the Elect only, the second resurrection is the dividing of the sheep and goats. I do not know of any congregations that do not teach this.
 
mdo757 said:
The scripture you used is speaking of the final judgement and the second resurrection. The first resurrection of the Elect there is no judgement for them. The first is the Elect only, the second resurrection is the dividing of the sheep and goats. I do not know of any congregations that do not teach this.

There is a Judgment for the elect at the second coming, a Judgment of approbation and reward, and the wicked a Judgment of open condemnation and shame..

dan 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The same truth is taught here in rev too rev 11:

18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
mdo757 said:
The scripture you used is speaking of the final judgement and the second resurrection. The first resurrection of the Elect there is no judgement for them. The first is the Elect only, the second resurrection is the dividing of the sheep and goats. I do not know of any congregations that do not teach this.

There is a Judgment for the elect at the second coming, a Judgment of approbation and reward, and the wicked a Judgment of open condemnation and shame..

dan 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The same truth is taught here in rev too rev 11:

18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Consider this. The second coming is before the thousand year reign. The judgement is at the end of the thousand years. For the sheep in the first there is no judgement, but the sheep in the second resurrection, along with the goats, there is a judgement.
 
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Death has power over the sheep and goats at the end of the thousand year, in the Judgement.
 
On the day of Judgment, which is very near, the non elect wicked will be judged accordingly, lets look at a principal heb 2:2

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

Every transgression and disobedience will receive a just recompense of reward, meaning giving the punishment due..

There will be degrees of punishment or eternal damnation based on #1 Light and opportunity Matt 11:



20Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

21Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

22But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

23And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

lk 12:

47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

#2. According to the nature of the sins committed i.e Jn 19:

11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Mk 12:

38And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,



39And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 40Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

heb 10:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

#3 According to the number of sins rom 2:

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
 
There does appear to be a contradiction between those resurrection examples our Lord Jesus gave in Matt.25 and John 5, and the resurrection periods mentioned in Revelation 20. But the contradiction is not within God's Word, it's within the doctrines of men.

We cannot accept one Scripture passage in favor of the other. They all must be in agreement. If our interpretation doesn't fit one or the other, it means we haven't yet understood it properly. Some create whole religious doctrines and creeds in favor of one Scripture example at the expense of omitting the other Scriptures examples. That's not how to discern Truth in God's Word and it will lead you astray.

Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(KJV)


Our Lord Jesus in Matt.25 declares ALL nations will be gathered and separated as soon as He comes in His Glory to sit upon His throne, meaning His judgement seat being put in place. Then He makes a division between the just and the unjust.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


John 5 also agrees with Matt.25 about all being resurrected at Christ's coming, but to two different types of resurrection, one for the just, and another one for the unjust, both resurrections at the same time.

In Rev.20:5 we're told the rest of the "dead" lived not again until the thousand years were finished. We're told those who reign and live with Christ at that time are the "first resurrection". Because a "first" resurrection is mentioned, that automatically implies there will be a least one more, or a second resurrection later. Question: what KIND of resurrection is that "first resurrection"? It's to everlasting Life through Christ Jesus, never being subject to the "second death" (lake of fire event). It is the 'death swallowed up in victory' idea Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 from Isaiah 25. So what type of resurrection does that imply for a second or later resurrection?

We must remember, that Scripture like Matthew 25 and John 5, and even Rev.3:9, reveals the wicked will be resurrected at Christ's coming also, at the start of the "thousand years"; there's to be two different types of resurrection. If the wicked go into the "resurrection of damnation" at Christ's coming like John 5:29 says, then how can they be resurrected again later to appear before God's great white throne judgment at the end of the thousand years? There's several other Scriptures that point to the wicked being resurrected at the start of the thousand years, and has to do with the "outer darkness" separation idea our Lord Jesus gave, showing the unjust will go through that thousand years, but be in a place of separation away from Christ and His servants. The five foolish virgins are included in those.

Rev 20:11-14
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


The end of the thousand years is over, and here "the dead" stand before God's Throne in judgment. How is it these are still called "dead" at this point, even while they stand before God's Throne in judgment? It's because they are SPIRITUALLY DEAD. Being still liable to die the "second death" in the "lake of fire" means being spiritually dead, and not of the resurrection unto Life through Christ Jesus. So this judgment has nothing to do with those of the "first resurrection" unto Life.


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)


Does that imply some of those "dead" might be found written in the "book of life" and not perish? I believe it does. And I believe the reason why Satan is loosed for a little season at the end of the "thousand years" is to test those of the "dead" that come to Christ during His thousand years reign. I do not believe every soul during this present world has had opportunity to 'hear' The Gospel of Jesus Christ. I believe that thousand years reign by Christ will be their time to 'hear', and that's why Satan and his are locked in the pit during the thousand years, so as to not be able to deceive.

Apostle Paul said this:

Acts 24:14-15
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
(KJV)


Why would Paul have "hope toward God" that there will also be a resurrection of the "unjust"? Is Paul showing he had hope for the resurrection of the unjust simply so they can be raised at the end of the thousand years to appear before God just prior to being destroyed?
 
Here's a summary of what I believe from my previous post. What Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 about the resurrection is also essential to grasping the Rev.20 chapter. Christ's "thousand years" reign is going to be a great time of teaching His Word. Every knee will bow to Christ Jesus then, including the unjust (Rev.9:3). Per Rev.22:14-15, there will be a place of separation for the resurrection of unjust, outside the Holy City. It is what our Lord Jesus referred to as the "outer darkness". It is NOT just a place of separation for the truly wicked. Sadly, it will include believers like the five foolish virgins Christ showed in Matthew 25 He will shut the door upon. It will also include the 'unprofitable servant'. It will also include the apostates who fall away from Christ during the coming great tribulation, because of being deceived into accepting the coming false messiah instead of waiting for Christ's return.

In Revelation 20:8-9, we are shown at the end of the "thousand years", Satan is loosed from the pit once again, and goes out to deceive "the nations which are in the four corners of the earth". We are also shown he will lead them upon the earth against the "camp of the saints" and the "beloved city". Right there we are given a clear picture of a separation between the "dead" (meaning spiritually dead and still subject to the lake of fire second death), and the "camp of the saints" in the "beloved city". Those nations are dwelling outside the "beloved city" and "camp of the saints". We are given certain pictures of the nations in that future time also in the Old Testament prophets; here's one of them...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(KJV)

What's the picture of that "thousand years" time? ALL nations will be required to go up to Jerusalem (the "beloved city" and "camp of the saints" during that time), and hold the feast of tabernacles and worship The King (Christ Jesus), The LORD of hosts. And if some refuse, there will be penalties of plagues and no rain upon their lands. EVEN THAT shows there will still be an element of stubborness and rebellion during that "thousand years", even with Christ reigning de facto on earth from the "beloved city". It also shows, HOW those nations outside the "camp of the saints" will still be subject to Satan's temptation at the end of the thousand years. Those inside the "beloved city" and "camp of the saints" represent those of the "first resurrection". That is how Christ and His elect priests and kings will reign upon the earth during that future time, from the area of Jerusalem (a new Jerusalem though). It's those nations that will be in the "outer darkness".
 
When I study the bible I ask myself, is it past, present, or future? Or is it an overview? Another question would be, is it translated correctly? Or is it a corruption of text? And the final question, is it a parable?
  • 1. Past.
  • 2. Present.
  • 3. Future.
  • 4. Overview.
  • 5. Translated correctly.
  • 6. Corruption of text.
  • 7. Is it a parable.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
On the day of Judgment, which is very near....

Could you be more specific?

Do you meant he same thing the apostles meant when they said it was very near, or are you employing a different meaning not found in scripture?

I always find this to be one of the most unusual habits of futurists.
 
parousia:

Could you be more specific?

This generation we are presently living in will not pass away until all be fulfilled..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
parousia:

Could you be more specific?

This generation we are presently living in will not pass away until all be fulfilled..


So, when the apostles said it was very near to them, they meant something different than you do?

And this present generation.... when do you say it began
?
 
parousia:

So, when the apostles said it was very near to them, they meant something different than you do?

Where did they say the second coming was near to them ? I recall paul saying this 2 thess 2:

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And this present generation.... when do you say it began
?

Whats customarily considered a generation ? 40-50 years maybe ..The dictionary defines a generation as :


The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.

So if this is the last genration that I live in, it began perhaps when I was born, and I am 52..I dont know for sure that I will personally be alive when Jesus comes, for He may take me now if He is done with me, but nevertheless, His second coming is at the door..
 
veteran:

Christ's "thousand years" reign is going to be a great time of teaching His Word.

That happened primarily when the apostles were alive and preaching and teaching the scriptures..Now its a time of apostacy from the word as predicted and that will signal christ coming again..1 tim 4:

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils
 
Hind sight is 20/20. A little boy asked me why a man was walking backwards down the street. I answered: He wants to see where he is coming from. Lol :screwloose :rolling
 
interpreter said:
The final judgement will come a thousand years from now, after a glorious 1000-year reign of the Church.

keep dreaming..
 
interpreter said:
The final judgement will come a thousand years from now, after a glorious 1000-year reign of the Church.
That is correct. Who knows why others can not see that? Some times the prophecy given in an overview with a series of events. In other words it is not a specific time with one event.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
veteran:

Christ's "thousand years" reign is going to be a great time of teaching His Word.

That happened primarily when the apostles were alive and preaching and teaching the scriptures..Now its a time of apostacy from the word as predicted and that will signal christ coming again..1 tim 4:

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils


I can assure you, the time for the greatest apostasy of God's people on earth has yet to come, because it is set to happen during the coming great tribulation. And that will be the main "falling away" peirod which Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2. It's linked with the events of 2 Thess.2:3-4, which is linked with what the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward will do in setting up the mark of the beast, and false worship of the image of the beast. The 70 years Babylon captivity of Judah serves as a type, as the king of Babylon then made a golden idol image of himself for all to bow in false worship to. That's when the time of testing came upon Daniel and his fellows.
 
vet:

I can assure you, the time for the greatest apostasy of God's people on earth has yet to come

Sorry, its here now..and Gods true People are not deceived..matt 24:

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
 
Back
Top