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The Death Penalty
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Gary
Member
I really don't care one way or the other. It does not concern me. If someone wants to support it, fine. If someone is against it, that's fine too. What's not fine is treating those who don't support it as if they are less of a Christian because of their belief's or less american. I really take offense to that. Trying to shame someone into accepting something they are not comfortable with by posting hypothetical situations. Trying to play on emotions rather than truth.
That's not how honest people conduct themselves.
Last i looked the OT was still part of the Bible...
Gary, how are you not doing the same?
jasoncran
Member
I plan for that. I do. one must never assume that one day a rape nor robbery wont happen to you. I have been stalked, I saw the man today.drove by and leered. my wife sold her home in fear from that man.he has followed me in my trucks and also my mom. yesterday at 7-11. I was in uniform. I was with my wife. 10 people walk towards me from the store and approach slowly. I had to wait a second and asses them to plan my next step which would be flee in my truck. if I couldn't then I would tell my wife call 9-1-1 and them try to hold them off while she could escape and if need be die for her. I don't have a weapon. forntuately they were Christians and wanted to thank me and also asked me to take part in some form of a game , I did.
Gary
Member
In what why? I'm not saying people can't support the death penalty.
When I'm hearing blood for blood, I want to see where it states that in the bible. In the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was given to the Hebrew people. I'm not Jewish. Jesus is the New Covenant. I want to see where Jesus supports the taking of a life for a life and commands us to take up that support.
That's all I'm asking. Instead of talking in circles, let's clear this up with New Testament scripture. Is that too much to ask?
Gary
Member
Romans 12
19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written,“Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
What does that mean?
I think it is a problem when a person thinks that only they are right.Several different people can have a different view on one verse of scripture.When we are on a Christian messageboard we need to take a look at all the views and be patient with one another.If their view is not what your view is then why argue about it?
Now your asking for NT....
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
For now DP is the law of the land.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
For now DP is the law of the land.
Gary
Member
You're absolutely right.
Gary
Member
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I think it is Death penalty.
Gary
Member
Lewis
Member
Gary my dear brother in Christ' God is the one who instituted the death penalty. Is He not the same today and yesterday ? God created the death penalty for a reason, one of them was to rid the earth of evil and the other was a deterrent. Some humans have to pay with their earthly lives for crimes and some don't because God who's name is mercy is most merciful. But sometimes He does not stop your electric chair date. Now in Romans 13 it says that the goverment is the avenger of evil and this government was set in place by God. Read these NT verses below.
1 Peter 2:13-14
King James Version (KJV)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1 Peter 2:13-14
King James Version (KJV)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
Gary
Member
I understand exactly what you're saying. But do you believe in your heart that all the laws of the government are righteous laws?
If we support one, do we not have to support them all? Or are we allowed to pick and choose which ones we support and which ones we don't?
Do you believe God supports our country's death penalty system 100%?
Lewis
Member
You would have to be very stupid to believe that. And not fully Gary because man has deviated and has run his own agenda in certain death penalty cases. I will tell you one thing that I hate, and that is a over zealous prosecutor who as long as they got a conviction they don't care. And many times the wrong people have went to jail or to the electric chair because of them and crooked cops.
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Gary
Member
That's why I personally believe the death penalty system in this country is a corrupt system. It's a part of the world we are told to stay away from.
Those passages from Romans and Peter instruct us to obey the laws. They don't say anything about supporting them. Supporting and obeying are 2 entirely different things.
The death penalty has it's place in society, but I don't believe it has a place in the life of a Christian.
But that's just me.
.
th1b.taylor
Member
Gary,
Inserting what one wishes to see havinbg been intended is not of the Christ and I certainly did not say, nor did I imply, we are, should or might judge their salvation. What I have said, have said in the past and will say in the future is that Matt. 7:1, when read is not forbidding judgement but is, instead, demanding we judge and not be found of the World.
My teachings on this matter demand, as does hermeneutics, the text be read in it's grounded and in it's completed context. It's grounded by reading the entire paragraph and it's completed when the light of 'all' scripture is shone on it. When scripture is ripped from it's context and proof texted Heresy is born.
Please do me the curtsey of reading what I have posted in context and we will not grind on one another.
Lewis
Member
THE DEATH PENALTY / CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
IN THE CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES (NEW TESTAMENT)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/exe_bibl2.htm
Overview:
The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) do not contain new codes of law which govern the death penalty. However, there were many references to capital punishment in the Bible and in non-canonical literature which indicate that the Hebrew Scripture's codes were still being applied during the time of Jesus.
An activity for which God Imposed the Death Penalty Directly
God killed individuals because they engaged in various transgressions in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). However, there was only one instance in the Christian Scriptures:
Capital crimes according to the Christian Scriptures
The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) do not contain codes of law which govern the death penalty. However there were many references to capital punishment which indicate that the Hebrew Scripture's codes were still being applied during the 1st century CE:
Mark 14:62: Jesus was accused of blasphemy. The high priest asked Jesus Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?. Jesus replied I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64 and Luke 22:70 contradict Mark's account; they record Jesus as sidestepping the question. However, Christ was still found guilty of blasphemy.
John 8:3 - 8:11: This famous passage describes an adulteress who was scheduled for stoning. Jesus told her executioners He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. These verses have often been quoted to indicate Jesus' opposition to the death penalty. However, this passage is apparentlya Christian forgery; it is not present in the oldest manuscripts of the Gospel of John, but was added later by unknown person(s). Besides, Jesus does not challenge the right of the accusers to kill her according to the Mosaic law.
Acts 6:8 - 7:60 Stephen, a Christian, was found guilty of blasphemy and stoned to death.
Romans 13:1-5 Paul instructs Christians to submit themselves to the authority of the state, because "The authorities that exist have been established by God." Referring to the authorities, Paul writes in Verse 4: "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." The reference to "sword" might be interpreted literally (to refer to capital punishment) or symbolically (to refer to the power of the state to punish wrongdoers).
If verse 3 is interpreted literally, the passage is clearly mistaken. Paul writes: "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right..." The historical record shows that an individuals' main enemy has traditionally been their own federal government. Consider various religiously based exterminations in recent decades, such as:
the Nazi holocaust, which largely targeted Jews and Gypsies
Bosnian religious cleansing, generally referred to as "ethnic cleansing." This was mainly perpetrated by Christian followers of the Serbian Orthodox church with Muslims and Roman Catholics as victims.
Serious oppression and extermination of Muslims in Kosovo by the former Serbian rulers --followers of the Serbian Orthodox church.
the murder of about 24% of the Christian population of East Timor by the Muslim Indonesian army.
These atrocities were ordered by governments on their helpless, innocent and law abiding citizens. There are many other such religiously-based conflicts currently active in the world.
WDJS (What did Jesus say) about execution?
Matthew 5:21-22: Jesus is recorded as saying: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment..." This passage discusses one person murdering -- and even being angry with -- another person. It does not appear to impact on the state execution of a convicted criminal. Presumably, Jesus approved of state executions, because he upheld the validity of the Mosaic law: not even one minor point was to be ignored. For example, he is recorded as having said in:
Matthew 5:18-19: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Luke 16:17: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."
Matthew 5:38-39: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." This might be interpreted as denying the right of the state to punish murder with execution. However, it seems to apply to the relationship between two people, rather than between the state and a convicted criminal.
Matthew 26:51-52: "And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Jesus' reproached one of his followers who had attacked a priest's slave with a sword. Some have interpreted this as authorizing state execution of convicted murderers -- those who kill others can be expected to be killed by the state in return. Others would point out that the incident in this case was aggravated assault, not murder. Jesus' comment might merely be an observation that violence tends to create more violence.
For lying about Church donations: Acts 5:1 to 11 describe how a couple, Ananias and Sapphira sold an piece of real estate. They gave part of the money to the apostles, claiming it was the full proceeds from the sale. Peter interpreted their act as lying to the Holy Ghost. God killed Ananias on the spot. Three hours later, Sapphira repeated the lie to Peter. He cursed her and God killed her immediately. Members of the church were understandably terrified.
IN THE CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES (NEW TESTAMENT)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/exe_bibl2.htm
Overview:
The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) do not contain new codes of law which govern the death penalty. However, there were many references to capital punishment in the Bible and in non-canonical literature which indicate that the Hebrew Scripture's codes were still being applied during the time of Jesus.
An activity for which God Imposed the Death Penalty Directly
God killed individuals because they engaged in various transgressions in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). However, there was only one instance in the Christian Scriptures:
Capital crimes according to the Christian Scriptures
The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) do not contain codes of law which govern the death penalty. However there were many references to capital punishment which indicate that the Hebrew Scripture's codes were still being applied during the 1st century CE:
If verse 3 is interpreted literally, the passage is clearly mistaken. Paul writes: "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right..." The historical record shows that an individuals' main enemy has traditionally been their own federal government. Consider various religiously based exterminations in recent decades, such as:
These atrocities were ordered by governments on their helpless, innocent and law abiding citizens. There are many other such religiously-based conflicts currently active in the world.
WDJS (What did Jesus say) about execution?