The Death Penalty

[agua.]

As I read the scriptures, there will be no sin in Heaven and every sin we commit must be , honestly, repented of or paid for in Hell. When go forward and shed crocodile tears and on Monday we do the same sin again, we have not paid for that sin but we will.

Sounds about right to me.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

It is rhetorical in that I do not need the answer from you, you need the answer.

Still not getting your drift here.

Jesus died for me because I was unclean and could never repay the debt I owed. I am washed in the blood and still, I am unfit to pay my debts.

Amen. One more question please. If the murderer has truly repented, say as King David did, do you still say they must be put to death to appease God ?

That does not mean the Christian must be dumb to this same truth. Truth is just that.

[/quote]

Still not getting you here. If the christian sins and then repents as per 2 Cor 7:10 what happens with "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." ?

 

[TOG]

its lawful in America to take life in self-defense

And, as we know, America can't be wrong. If it's legal in America, then it's God's will. Killing a person is a right, and getting basic health care is a luxury, just the way God wants it.

The TOG​

 

[th1b.taylor]

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.



Still not getting your drift here.

I posed a question that, in it's truest sense, rhetorical. If it is rhetorical, I am not the one that needs the answer. In the case of this question, you and our LORD needs the answer.

Amen. One more question please. If the murderer has truly repented, say as King David did, do you still say they must be put to death to appease God ?

Stop that, it just starts stupid arguments. I have never said anything about appeasing God. I do, over and over teach of pleasing God and that, in the case of murderers, rapists, child molesters and others is up to each of the parties involved. The jurors must judge righteously, the Judge must judge righteously, the executioner must perform his duty and not kill because it gives him or her pleasure and to really please God, the Prisoner must, with all of his or her heart, repent.

If they want to repent because they are about to die, they are not repenting, they just regret having been caught. You remembered the equal and opposite actions, that good tpo think about. God said for those that are forgiven much, much is expected and that is me! God spoke to me, audible, better than 2 months before my 22nd birthday and yet I spent the first 45 years of my life digging my way into Hell. That is why I drove everybody nuts when I was saved and strapped to my wheelchair and a lot of days to this hospital bed, I am still busy serving as I am led of the Spirit.

Equal and opposite reaction to the first action. A dying man's true repentance can very well be that equal reaction but only God an say... that is His purview. I do not have the yard stick with the correct calibration needed to measure these affairs.

Hope that helps and may God bless.

Still not getting you here. If the christian sins and then repents as per 2 Cor 7:10 what happens with "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." ?

As explained above, God has the measure, not I.

 

[th1b.taylor]

And, as we know, America can't be wrong. If it's legal in America, then it's God's will. Killing a person is a right, and getting basic health care is a luxury, just the way God wants it.

The TOG​

TOG,
Digs like that one are not Christian.

 

[agua.]

I posed a question that, in it's truest sense, rhetorical. If it is rhetorical, I am not the one that needs the answer. In the case of this question, you and our LORD needs the answer.

Oky doky no worries.

Stop that, it just starts stupid arguments. I have never said anything about appeasing God. I do, over and over teach of pleasing God and that, in the case of murderers, rapists, child molesters and others is up to each of the parties involved. The jurors must judge righteously, the Judge must judge righteously, the executioner must perform his duty and not kill because it gives him or her pleasure and to really please God, the Prisoner must, with all of his or her heart, repent.

If they want to repent because they are about to die, they are not repenting, they just regret having been caught. You remembered the equal and opposite actions, that good tpo think about. God said for those that are forgiven much, much is expected and that is me! God spoke to me, audible, better than 2 months before my 22nd birthday and yet I spent the first 45 years of my life digging my way into Hell. That is why I drove everybody nuts when I was saved and strapped to my wheelchair and a lot of days to this hospital bed, I am still busy serving as I am led of the Spirit.

Equal and opposite reaction to the first action. A dying man's true repentance can very well be that equal reaction but only God an say... that is His purview. I do not have the yard stick with the correct calibration needed to measure these affairs.

Hope that helps and may God bless.



As explained above, God has the measure, not I.

I'm not sure what I should stop. Thank God we have a righteous judge in Jesus. God bless

 

[TOG]

TOG,
Digs like that one are not Christian.

My point was that what is legal in America shouldn't be an issue here. We are all Christians and should base our views on this, as well as every other subject, on what Scripture says, not what our national laws say. There are people here from all over the world, and most of the countries represented have abolished the death penalty long ago. Why should what's legal in the US be of any more importance that what's legal in Austrailia, Germany or Great Britain, for example? It's what God says that's important, not what the United States government says. If you call that a "dig" and "unchristian", then go ahead and call it that. It won't change the facts. There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

The TOG​

 

[Gary]

My point was that what is legal in America shouldn't be an issue here. We are all Christians and should base our views on this, as well as every other subject, on what Scripture says, not what our national laws say. There are people here from all over the world, and most of the countries represented have abolished the death penalty long ago. Why should what's legal in the US be of any more importance that what's legal in Austrailia, Germany or Great Britain, for example? It's what God says that's important, not what the United States government says. If you call that a "dig" and "unchristian", then go ahead and call it that. It won't change the facts. There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

The TOG​

..................very good post!!!

 

[Gary]

My point was that what is legal in America shouldn't be an issue here. We are all Christians and should base our views on this, as well as every other subject, on what Scripture says, not what our national laws say. There are people here from all over the world, and most of the countries represented have abolished the death penalty long ago. Why should what's legal in the US be of any more importance that what's legal in Austrailia, Germany or Great Britain, for example? It's what God says that's important, not what the United States government says. If you call that a "dig" and "unchristian", then go ahead and call it that. It won't change the facts. There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

The TOG​

1 Corinthians 3
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

My point was that what is legal in America shouldn't be an issue here. We are all Christians and should base our views on this, as well as every other subject, on what Scripture says, not what our national laws say. There are people here from all over the world, and most of the countries represented have abolished the death penalty long ago. Why should what's legal in the US be of any more importance that what's legal in Austrailia, Germany or Great Britain, for example? It's what God says that's important, not what the United States government says. If you call that a "dig" and "unchristian", then go ahead and call it that. It won't change the facts. There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

The TOG​

Great post!!

 

[reba]

There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

yup

Lev 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Num 35:30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
Num 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

Jos 20:3 That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.
Jos 20:4 And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city, they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place, that he may dwell among them.
Jos 20:5 And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime.

 

[Gary]

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[reba]

Our Lord God has prepared a place for those who operate in the flesh and He IS love.

 

[tandemcpl]

For all those who use the Old Testament to justify the death penalty, what do we do with these verses.

“Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. Exo. 21:15, ESV.

“Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death. Exo. 21:17, ESV.

For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him. Lev. 20:9, ESV.

“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deu. 21:18-21, ESV.

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think life in prison is arguably more humane. In the US at least, death penalty cases tend to be more expensive than life in prison cases. The death penalty doesn't have a deterrent value.

 

[th1b.taylor]

My point was that what is legal in America shouldn't be an issue here. We are all Christians and should base our views on this, as well as every other subject, on what Scripture says, not what our national laws say. There are people here from all over the world, and most of the countries represented have abolished the death penalty long ago. Why should what's legal in the US be of any more importance that what's legal in Austrailia, Germany or Great Britain, for example? It's what God says that's important, not what the United States government says. If you call that a "dig" and "unchristian", then go ahead and call it that. It won't change the facts. There's only one foundation on which we should build our views and our actions, and it's not the laws of the United States.

The TOG​

When you explain it that way it makes sense but without the definition it will rub nerves making it to be perceived incorrectly. God bless.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I think life in prison is arguably more humane. In the US at least, death penalty cases tend to be more expensive than life in prison cases. The death penalty doesn't have a deterrent value.

You are quite wrong, of course. When the young lady here in Texas was put to death, there is no way she will ever kill with a pick axe again. The prisoner on death row that jerked the pastor from Houston tightly to the bars and cut his throat will never kill nor will he attempt to kill again because he has been eliminated from our midst. The Death Penalty is a permanent solution.

 

[th1b.taylor]

For all those who use the Old Testament to justify the death penalty, what do we do with these verses.

“Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. Exo. 21:15, ESV.

“Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death. Exo. 21:17, ESV.

For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him. Lev. 20:9, ESV.

“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deu. 21:18-21, ESV.

Be blessed.

Toby

Toby,
There is only one Bible, the Bible Jesus taught from. That Bible is found in the first 39 books of the Christian Bible today. The following 27 books, a.k.a. the New Testament, is the only God ordained and God spoken Life Application Commentary on the Bible.

There are found, in the Bible, some very hard teachings but if we read all of the books, New and Old, we find there is a context to the whole of it. You have singled out three passages on one minor subject that requires a little thought and beings members of the society of today, we know that serious thought is considered to laborious for the average citizen so we just toss it aside or we toss it into conversations such as this one, hoping to proof text the discussion to a halt.

Striking one's mother or father can mean death and in such a case that person does need to be permanently removed from the midst of civil folks. Before I became to weak to help with the prison ministry it cost over 37 thousand dollars a year to keep a man or a woman in General Population and nearly 60 thousand a year in Maximum Security. So you see, the facts bear out the logic of God's Law and the problem falls back on us, His children. We are stiff necked and disobedient, thinking we are smarter than God.

The real issue's solution is found in the Army's former policy statement, "Our's is not to question why, our's is to do or die." We, in the military obey, just as the Christian must in serving God. So it that we must determine, "Will I follow God or will I revolt and go to Hell?"

 

[tandemcpl]

Toby,
There is only one Bible, the Bible Jesus taught from. That Bible is found in the first 39 books of the Christian Bible today. The following 27 books, a.k.a. the New Testament, is the only God ordained and God spoken Life Application Commentary on the Bible.

There are found, in the Bible, some very hard teachings but if we read all of the books, New and Old, we find there is a context to the whole of it. You have singled out three passages on one minor subject that requires a little thought and beings members of the society of today, we know that serious thought is considered to laborious for the average citizen so we just toss it aside or we toss it into conversations such as this one, hoping to proof text the discussion to a halt.

Striking one's mother or father can mean death and in such a case that person does need to be permanently removed from the midst of civil folks. Before I became to weak to help with the prison ministry it cost over 37 thousand dollars a year to keep a man or a woman in General Population and nearly 60 thousand a year in Maximum Security. So you see, the facts bear out the logic of God's Law and the problem falls back on us, His children. We are stiff necked and disobedient, thinking we are smarter than God.

The real issue's solution is found in the Army's former policy statement, "Our's is not to question why, our's is to do or die." We, in the military obey, just as the Christian must in serving God. So it that we must determine, "Will I follow God or will I revolt and go to Hell?"

Bill,

When I follow Jesus’ teachings on love and forgiveness in the New Testament, am I not following God?

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[jasoncran]

I think life in prison is arguably more humane. In the US at least, death penalty cases tend to be more expensive than life in prison cases. The death penalty doesn't have a deterrent value.

I will bite this. if you were a child rapist. spending one day like this. you will not be with anyone but you and the medical persons that must deal with you. the officers and may have no visitors with children unless it allowed by the court and also legal and clergy.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...ary_confinement_is_horrible_and_inhumane.html

I have been in cells built like that. that is your life. I choose death.

 

[Kathi]

I will bite this. if you were a child rapist. spending one day like this. you will not be with anyone but you and the medical persons that must deal with you. the officers and may have no visitors with children unless it allowed by the court and also legal and clergy.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...ary_confinement_is_horrible_and_inhumane.html

I have been in cells built like that. that is your life. I choose death.

That seems reasonable.But no parole.That means your whole life in prison until you die.