The Diet of Daniel

[eddif]

I do not depend on much but but IP224. Thus this article is of interest to me.
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-oiling-of-america/

eddif

 

[tim-from-pa]

While this thread is a tad dated, I want to offer some points about this "Daniel's diet" and the use of that to push a vegan way since much is said about that these days. Even my previous church got a little caught up in this recently.

First off, I want to lay a disclaimer here that I am judging anyone one way or the other what they eat be it a vegan, or meat diet. That's one's individual choice. However, it is wrong for one trying to get the other to eat another "right" way.

OK, now for the points about Daniel. Daniel was not vegan! This passage of scripture has been twisted out of shape to support that view, but it is not what it is saying. The issue was the King's meat. Now I know that "meat" is used for food in general, but it also includes flesh. The Jews practiced Kosher eating, and certain meats were forbidden. In addition the preparation was important. This is why, although turkey is kosher as a meat, it still needs to be prepared in a certain way (e.g. blood drained properly), so some turkeys sold are not considered kosher. With the King, those laws were not being followed, so Daniel played it safe by eating what was kosher -- just vegetables (pulse) naturally grown they way they were supposed to be. Kosher just applies to flesh, as all fruits, vegetables and grains, etc are kosher. So he had to abstain from flesh for that time only to make sure the Law was being followed.

And he's another important point. Given the opportunity, Daniel would have most definitely participated in Passover. The Law requires roasted lamb to be killed on the eve of Passover on Nisan 14th. It's part of the ceremonial Law and to refrain from that would have made him a law breaker, which Daniel certainly was not as long as he was not physically unable to do so. The same elaborate sets of rules apply for the priests for offerings. Even if one argues this is "done away with" and Daniel's diet was a forerunner, Jesus still ate the fish after his resurrection and sins were paid for. Jesus made no such command not to eat kosher flesh.

Again, one may eat as they please, to 'detoxify' or whatever, but IMO our physiology changed after the flood and meat was now an important part of our nutritional balance. We don't have to go "hog wild" over eating it, but scripturally it is permitted and I wanted to point out the fallacy that Daniel is promoting veganism.

 

[Eugene]

Jesus made no such command not to eat kosher flesh.

Jesus sure appeared to suggest it in Paul's writing.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

 

[smaller]

My grandfather on my dad's side died of a heart attack when he was 60. Huge man. 6'3" and 300+ lbs. Massive farmer. I'm the same height. And not necessarily wanting that kind of end game, I have taken some care in my diet over the years, but, nevertheless, at the age of 40 something, I had swelled to 260lbs and felt miserable. So, I did the Atkins "all meat" diet for quite a few years, intermittently, to keep the weight down. This was relatively successful and I was able to keep my weight in the 225-235 range. BUT the older I got, the more difficult it became. So when I was 58 I had again swelled to the 250 mark, and was very very frustrated. My blood pressure which had never been a problem also started to reach the marginal point, not high, but at the high end of the scale at 139/90. So, red alert again! The "all protein" thing was just not working out.

I was accounting this with my daughters and one of them mentioned an all juice diet and turned me to a video by Joe Cross called "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead." Which I watched, and decided to try it. The gist of it was, to only drink freshly made juice consisting of fruits and veggies, about 3 times a day. I can be strictly disciplined, so decided to give it a go. Stayed on the strict regiment for about 6 weeks, and then started modulating a salad in the eve. Stayed on this routine for approx. 10 weeks. Lost 53 lbs. I hadn't seen the underside of 200lbs. since I was 19, but I clocked in at 197lbs and it felt fantastic. I was never hungry the whole time. But I did limit my intake to about 60oz of fresh juice per day.

So, some of the downsides. When you do an all juice diet, there is little to no protein. In the weight loss then, you will also lose about 30% of your muscle weight, which is not necessarily good. I noticed it immediately on the golf course, where I used to be able to pound a 300 yard drive, my drives dropped to 250. Big concern, right. Point made though. You do have to "rebuild" your muscles after this kind of diet.

It does work however, if you have the discipline to "stick" to it, religiously, for 60 days. Your system WILL respond favorably. My blood pressure returned to normal. I have since "modulated" my protein intake, and if that get's too high, which is primarily from MEAT, then that has to be cut back or even stopped again.

I have forbidden my wife and family to bring into the house, any GMO products, high fructose corn syrup products and other processed foods, as these are toxic to the system. And I believe it is these types of products that ruin most people's health.

If you eat organic and primarily fruits and veggies, life is good. And you can have a "little" meat to go with it and be just fine, but it needs to be restricted to 6-8 oz per day, max.

I have a vitamix container sitting on the counter right now that I put in a half a dozen different frozen organic fruits last nite to thaw, and will add broccoli, kale, spinach, chlorella, organic honey, organic cocoa, hemp seeds, organic coconut oil and some other herbs and spices for my morning ritual, which will easily hold me over to a small meal this eve. Eventually I want to take another run at a lower weight, maybe in the 185 zone. That is my "winter" project. To get there I'll probably have to hit 175lb and then work the setpoint back up slowly. This will be a major push for me as I am currently clocking at 220, which is a whopping 45 lbs to go. This time however it will be a slower push, with some veggie protein added so I don't lose muscle weight.

 

[eddif]

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Through the symbols of food there is a direct parallel with the foreign gentile kingdoms and the pagan worship of the words of man. Daniel was choosing his God.

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

As a type of living eternally by eating his flesh and eating his body, foods were created as a shadow of things to come. Physical health is a type / shadow of eternal well being in heaven for eternity.

Of course Mississippi rednecks talk in riddles. To me Daniel is involved in the hidden truths.

eddif

 

[tim-from-pa]

My comments in bold red (expand your comments I quoted to see everything)

My grandfather on my dad's side died of a heart attack when he was 60. Huge man. 6'3" and 300+ lbs. Massive farmer. I'm the same height. And not necessarily wanting that kind of end game, I have taken some care in my diet over the years, but, nevertheless, at the age of 40 something, I had swelled to 260lbs and felt miserable. So, I did the Atkins "all meat" diet for quite a few years, intermittently, to keep the weight down. This was relatively successful and I was able to keep my weight in the 225-235 range. BUT the older I got, the more difficult it became. So when I was 58 I had again swelled to the 250 mark, and was very very frustrated. My blood pressure which had never been a problem also started to reach the marginal point, not high, but at the high end of the scale at 139/90. So, red alert again! The "all protein" thing was just not working out.

Weight is not necessarily the reason your grandfather died. 6'3" is very tall, so 300 lbs is not unreasonable. Maybe not exactly a twiggy, but the weight your grandfather may have included a lot of muscle considering he was an outsider, And since you are the same height, I see no problem with your weight which is a lot less. 139/90 is perfectly normal. They want to "dummy down the numbers" so that we ALL need medications. Before the pressure was put on the WHO from the United States and BIG pharmaceuticals, a BP as high as 160/100 was not considered something you needed medication for, but they merely said just to watch it. If it went no higher, you were OK as that is the norm for some people. BP can be brought down two ways: 1) make the heart pump less and less hard, or 2) expand the arteries. #1 can be a disaster because if the heart pressure is less, than the volume of flow per beat is less meaning the cells are not receiving oxygen as well. Such a person will be dumber, slower and less healthy. #2 is better, but if you are developing plaque that only works to a degree, and then when it no longer works any longer, the doctors panic and put a person on 2, 3 or more medications. The end result: a person will die of high blood pressure at 120/80 just as quickly as 170/110 because the issue is not pressure, but unhealthy arteries. High blood pressure never killed anyone -- rather the diseased arteries that make the high blood pressure killed people. So to bringing it down does not even buy time.

I was accounting this with my daughters and one of them mentioned an all juice diet and turned me to a video by Joe Cross called "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead." Which I watched, and decided to try it. The gist of it was, to only drink freshly made juice consisting of fruits and veggies, about 3 times a day. I can be strictly disciplined, so decided to give it a go. Stayed on the strict regiment for about 6 weeks, and then started modulating a salad in the eve. Stayed on this routine for approx. 10 weeks. Lost 53 lbs. I hadn't seen the underside of 200lbs. since I was 19, but I clocked in at 197lbs and it felt fantastic. I was never hungry the whole time. But I did limit my intake to about 60oz of fresh juice per day.

So, some of the downsides. When you do an all juice diet, there is little to no protein. In the weight loss then, you will also lose about 30% of your muscle weight, which is not necessarily good. I noticed it immediately on the golf course, where I used to be able to pound a 300 yard drive, my drives dropped to 250. Big concern, right. Point made though. You do have to "rebuild" your muscles after this kind of diet.

It does work however, if you have the discipline to "stick" to it, religiously, for 60 days. Your system WILL respond favorably. My blood pressure returned to normal. I have since "modulated" my protein intake, and if that get's too high, which is primarily from MEAT, then that has to be cut back or even stopped again.

Which begs the question, do you take vitamins? And not those do-nothing, establishment type Centrum vitamins, either. I mean megavitamins? Doctors will argue that we do not need all those vitamins, and a "well balanced diet" will supply everything we need. I say to that, after they realize they are living a pipe dream that there's no such thing as a "well balanced diet" any longer due to man's intervention. So do we need megavitamins, though? My answer is "yes" because I don't even trust the vitamins any longer since they, too are man made, although there's some out there, like the ones I take, who will put their reputation to them. But just in case that the vitamins lost their potency, I take at least 10x the RDA of everything. Or mostly everything. In the case of the B-complex it may be more like 500x. Hopefully I get the amount I then need.

I have forbidden my wife and family to bring into the house, any GMO products, high fructose corn syrup products and other processed foods, as these are toxic to the system. And I believe it is these types of products that ruin most people's health.

If you eat organic and primarily fruits and veggies, life is good. And you can have a "little" meat to go with it and be just fine, but it needs to be restricted to 6-8 oz per day, max.

I don't think meat needs to be restricted, but it should not be the crap they feed us either with antiboitics in them and whatnot.

I have a vitamix container sitting on the counter right now that I put in a half a dozen different frozen organic fruits last nite to thaw, and will add broccoli, kale, spinach, chlorella, organic honey, organic cocoa, hemp seeds, organic coconut oil and some other herbs and spices for my morning ritual, which will easily hold me over to a small meal this eve. Eventually I want to take another run at a lower weight, maybe in the 185 zone. That is my "winter" project. To get there I'll probably have to hit 175lb and then work the setpoint back up slowly. This will be a major push for me as I am currently clocking at 220, which is a whopping 45 lbs to go. This time however it will be a slower push, with some veggie protein added so I don't lose muscle weight.
You are too obsessed with your weight. 175 pounds for 6'3" is way too low. I found that there's 2 ways to look at natural health. #1 is to agree with the medical establishment's conditions and specifications that they dictate but disagree on the cure, (ie. use a natural one over drugs). #2 is to question the specifications AND the cure. In other words, MANY people are told they have a problem when they do not. For example, I say that normal total cholesterol is 200-300 and if it's below 200 one is in danger of illnesses such as cancer and even heart disease. A normal diastolic is 70-90 and 110-140 for systolic, but if it's higher a tad is still not a problem. But if it's in those numbers you are OK for sure. A normal fasting blood sugar is 80-120. Do these numbers seem high? They did not used to be at one time, and thankfully I am old enough to remember the old specs because if one is at 100 blood sugar they act like you're a diabetic. You see what happened? They DUMMIED down the numbers so that "we all need drugs....." or "when diet and exercise don't help, you need....." and so goes the pharmaceutical commercial. You seem to be on #1's page yet, but as we gain insight into the sham we are being feed, you then progress to #2. FYI, for a 6'3" man, I calculated that the picture of health weight for you is 230 pounds. You are already there. Just hold it, eat right and take your vitamins and you'll be fine.

 

[tim-from-pa]

My comments in bold red (expand your comments I quoted to see everything)

My grandfather on my dad's side died of a heart attack when he was 60. Huge man. 6'3" and 300+ lbs. Massive farmer. I'm the same height. And not necessarily wanting that kind of end game, I have taken some care in my diet over the years, but, nevertheless, at the age of 40 something, I had swelled to 260lbs and felt miserable. So, I did the Atkins "all meat" diet for quite a few years, intermittently, to keep the weight down. This was relatively successful and I was able to keep my weight in the 225-235 range. BUT the older I got, the more difficult it became. So when I was 58 I had again swelled to the 250 mark, and was very very frustrated. My blood pressure which had never been a problem also started to reach the marginal point, not high, but at the high end of the scale at 139/90. So, red alert again! The "all protein" thing was just not working out.

Weight is not necessarily the reason your grandfather died. 6'3" is very tall, so 300 lbs is not unreasonable. Maybe not exactly a twiggy, but the weight your grandfather may have included a lot of muscle considering he was an outsider, And since you are the same height, I see no problem with your weight which is a lot less. 139/90 is perfectly normal. They want to "dummy down the numbers" so that we ALL need medications. Before the pressure was put on the WHO from the United States and BIG pharmaceuticals, a BP as high as 160/100 was not considered something you needed medication for, but they merely said just to watch it. If it went no higher, you were OK as that is the norm for some people. BP can be brought down two ways: 1) make the heart pump less and less hard, or 2) expand the arteries. #1 can be a disaster because if the heart pressure is less, than the volume of flow per beat is less meaning the cells are not receiving oxygen as well. Such a person will be dumber, slower and less healthy. #2 is better, but if you are developing plaque that only works to a degree, and then when it no longer works any longer, the doctors panic and put a person on 2, 3 or more medications. The end result: a person will die of high blood pressure at 120/80 just as quickly as 170/110 because the issue is not pressure, but unhealthy arteries. High blood pressure never killed anyone -- rather the diseased arteries that make the high blood pressure killed people. So to bringing it down does not even buy time.

I was accounting this with my daughters and one of them mentioned an all juice diet and turned me to a video by Joe Cross called "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead." Which I watched, and decided to try it. The gist of it was, to only drink freshly made juice consisting of fruits and veggies, about 3 times a day. I can be strictly disciplined, so decided to give it a go. Stayed on the strict regiment for about 6 weeks, and then started modulating a salad in the eve. Stayed on this routine for approx. 10 weeks. Lost 53 lbs. I hadn't seen the underside of 200lbs. since I was 19, but I clocked in at 197lbs and it felt fantastic. I was never hungry the whole time. But I did limit my intake to about 60oz of fresh juice per day.

So, some of the downsides. When you do an all juice diet, there is little to no protein. In the weight loss then, you will also lose about 30% of your muscle weight, which is not necessarily good. I noticed it immediately on the golf course, where I used to be able to pound a 300 yard drive, my drives dropped to 250. Big concern, right. Point made though. You do have to "rebuild" your muscles after this kind of diet.

It does work however, if you have the discipline to "stick" to it, religiously, for 60 days. Your system WILL respond favorably. My blood pressure returned to normal. I have since "modulated" my protein intake, and if that get's too high, which is primarily from MEAT, then that has to be cut back or even stopped again.

Which begs the question, do you take vitamins? And not those do-nothing, establishment type Centrum vitamins, either. I mean megavitamins? Doctors will argue that we do not need all those vitamins, and a "well balanced diet" will supply everything we need. I say to that, after they realize they are living a pipe dream that there's no such thing as a "well balanced diet" any longer due to man's intervention. So do we need megavitamins, though? My answer is "yes" because I don't even trust the vitamins any longer since they, too are man made, although there's some out there, like the ones I take, who will put their reputation to them. But just in case that the vitamins lost their potency, I take at least 10x the RDA of everything. Or mostly everything. In the case of the B-complex it may be more like 500x. Hopefully I get the amount I then need.

I have forbidden my wife and family to bring into the house, any GMO products, high fructose corn syrup products and other processed foods, as these are toxic to the system. And I believe it is these types of products that ruin most people's health.

If you eat organic and primarily fruits and veggies, life is good. And you can have a "little" meat to go with it and be just fine, but it needs to be restricted to 6-8 oz per day, max.

I don't think meat needs to be restricted, but it should not be the crap they feed us either with antiboitics in them and whatnot.

I have a vitamix container sitting on the counter right now that I put in a half a dozen different frozen organic fruits last nite to thaw, and will add broccoli, kale, spinach, chlorella, organic honey, organic cocoa, hemp seeds, organic coconut oil and some other herbs and spices for my morning ritual, which will easily hold me over to a small meal this eve. Eventually I want to take another run at a lower weight, maybe in the 185 zone. That is my "winter" project. To get there I'll probably have to hit 175lb and then work the setpoint back up slowly. This will be a major push for me as I am currently clocking at 220, which is a whopping 45 lbs to go. This time however it will be a slower push, with some veggie protein added so I don't lose muscle weight.
You are too obsessed with your weight. 175 pounds for 6'3" is way too low. I found that there's 2 ways to look at natural health. #1 is to agree with the medical establishment's conditions and specifications that they dictate but disagree on the cure, (ie. use a natural one over drugs). #2 is to question the specifications AND the cure. In other words, MANY people are told they have a problem when they do not. For example, I say that normal total cholesterol is 200-300 and if it's below 200 one is in danger of illnesses such as cancer and even heart disease. A normal diastolic is 70-90 and 110-140 for systolic, but if it's higher a tad is still not a problem. But if it's in those numbers you are OK for sure. A normal fasting blood sugar is 80-120. Do these numbers seem high? They did not used to be at one time, and thankfully I am old enough to remember the old specs because if one is at 100 blood sugar they act like you're a diabetic. You see what happened? They DUMMIED down the numbers so that "we all need drugs....." or "when diet and exercise don't help, you need....." and so goes the pharmaceutical commercial. You seem to be on #1's page yet, but as we gain insight into the sham we are being feed, you then progress to #2. FYI, for a 6'3" man, I calculated that the picture of health weight for you is 230 pounds. You are already there. Just hold it, eat right and take your vitamins and you'll be fine.