The Flood has really taiken place!

[Petri Paavola]

Jari Iivanainen's excellent article about the Flood and that the Flood has really taken place:


When it is a question of the Flood, it has often regarded as a mere legend. Especially such people, who believe in theory of evolution, don't believe that the Flood has ever taken place.

But it is good to ask, is the Flood after all true. For if we make practical observations of the ground and fossils and also of the traditional knowledge of people, they refer quite strongly to the Flood. They indicate that the large mass destruction has taken place in the immediate past. On the following lines we are going to examine these evidences, which refer to the Flood.

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/theflood.html

May GBU!

 

[MrVersatile48]

CORROBORATING BOOKS..

..see http://www.christianbooks.com - may well have good Christmas discounts on classics like Noah's Ark & The Genesis Flood, by Dr Henry Morris, & The Grand Canyon: A Creationist View by 23 PhD/MSc-level scientists, inc geologists & hydrologists 8-)

Or see the comprehensive menus of articles @ http://www.creationism.org & http://www.discovery.org/csc & http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org

Many, of course, are quoted @ our Christianity & Science forum's many threads :-D

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=19

Help break the dangerous stranglehold of Darwinist drivel & restore our schools, colleges & universities to true academic freedom of thought :multi:

See especially how Penn is pent up @ being penned up from teaching the plain truth that hundreds of top scientists, from astronomy to micro-biology, have found in Intelligent Design - so that they reject the atheist brainwashing indoctrination of the 'education' system -see Evo Goes To Court thread :roll:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18041

See how such brainwashing, by 24x7, 1-World-Govt media control, only helps bring on the much-prophesied worst global tyranny ever - @ End Times/Bible Prophecy forum's Sign of the Beast thread :evil:

Meanwhile, see today's news attempt to force http://www.parliament.uk into unnecessarily draconian measures in the proposed Anti-Terrorism Bill

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02112005/325/p ... oiled.html

Is it truth? Or propaganda? :o

Why only published today, if not to try to instil panic? :

Do lobby your MP @ the well-established history of dictatorial rulers using crisis creation to make citizens accept unnecessary & dangerous loss of freedom & increase of centralised control :angel:

Back with links..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 190#219190

God bless!

Ian

 

[Quath]

The flood evidence is very bad science from people who want it to be true but can't look at the evidence objectively.

For example, if there had been a world wide flood, then the geological evidence would be easily apparent. So pro-flood people just try to say that geologist do not know their job to get around this.

I have heard all kinds of sillyness to try to justify the flood. For example, the Grand Canyon is suppose to be some evidence. However, if the Grand Canyon results from a flood, then the whole world should have been covered in Grand Canyons.

An easy way to show that the flood makes little sense is that almost anywhere in the world, fossils are in the ground so that dinosaur bones are below the large mammal bones. The flood should either have these always mixed around or have the heavier bones on bottom (large dinosaurs and elephants) and lighter on top (rats and small dinosaurs).

Plus you have to explain how kangeroos swam to Australia and how all the saltwater and freshwater fish survived the mixing of the salt and fresh waters. Only cultures that live in local flood zones have myths of floods. Other places like Egypt that never have floods, do not have such stories.

So the simpliest explanation is that someone wrote of a flood that seemed big to them but was small on the world scale.

Quath

 

[Brother Ian]

Science proves over and over that there was a world wide flood. If you are a Christian and you deny the flood, you deny the Bible.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Science proves over and over that there was a world wide flood. If you are a Christian and you deny the flood, you deny the Bible.

Established science does no such thing. Quath listed just a few of the multiple reasons why the idea is untenable from a scientific perspective. Issues I have never seen adaquately addressed by those purporting a world-wide flood has occurred.

At the very most creationist scientists provide analysis which may indicate a worldwide flood. However, their claims seldom, if ever, stand up to scrutiny.

If indeed the flood is "proved", then wouldn't it be true that you have no faith? After all, if faith is belief in that unproven (or unseen, as Paul says), then if you do have proof, you lack the necessary faith to be saved.

Can one be justified through proof?

 

[Muad'Dib]

A world wide flood doesn't prove the entire Bible true. Besides, it isn't Christians that are always asking for proof. It is nonbelievers who apparently lack the capacity to understand the definition of "faith." To most Christians, news of solid proof for the Flood wouldn't change much.

 

[AHIMSA]

The myth of the flood has a very strong tradition in Mediterannian and Mesoptamian cultures. These were regions that experienced extreme flooding in the early history of these people's, so the this myth of a world wide flood is pretty much in their cultural unconcious.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Re: CORROBORATING BOOKS..

..see http://www.christianbooks.com - may well have good Christmas discounts on classics like Noah's Ark & The Genesis Flood, by Dr Henry Morris, & The Grand Canyon: A Creationist View by 23 PhD/MSc-level scientists, inc geologists & hydrologists 8-)

Or see the comprehensive menus of articles @ http://www.creationism.org & http://www.discovery.org/csc & http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org

Many, of course, are quoted @ our Christianity & Science forum's many threads :-D

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=19

Help break the dangerous stranglehold of Darwinist drivel & restore our schools, colleges & universities to true academic freedom of thought :multi:

See especially how Penn is pent up @ being penned up from teaching the plain truth that hundreds of top scientists, from astronomy to micro-biology, have found in Intelligent Design - so that they reject the atheist brainwashing indoctrination of the 'education' system -see Evo Goes To Court thread :roll:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18041

See how such brainwashing, by 24x7, 1-World-Govt media control, only helps bring on the much-prophesied worst global tyranny ever - @ End Times/Bible Prophecy forum's Sign of the Beast thread :evil:

Meanwhile, see today's news attempt to force http://www.parliament.uk into unnecessarily draconian measures in the proposed Anti-Terrorism Bill

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02112005/325/p ... oiled.html

Is it truth? Or propaganda? :o

Why only published today, if not to try to instil panic? :

Do lobby your MP @ the well-established history of dictatorial rulers using crisis creation to make citizens accept unnecessary & dangerous loss of freedom & increase of centralised control :angel:

Back with links..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 190#219190

God bless!

Ian

Here's 11 learned articles by creationist experts:-

http://www.ucb.co.uk/index.cfm?itemid=225#648

Back with more...

 

[MrVersatile48]

Re: CORROBORATING BOOKS..

..see http://www.christianbooks.com - may well have good Christmas discounts on classics like Noah's Ark & The Genesis Flood, by Dr Henry Morris, & The Grand Canyon: A Creationist View by 23 PhD/MSc-level scientists, inc geologists & hydrologists 8-)

Or see the comprehensive menus of articles @ http://www.creationism.org & http://www.discovery.org/csc & http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org

Many, of course, are quoted @ our Christianity & Science forum's many threads :-D

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=19

Help break the dangerous stranglehold of Darwinist drivel & restore our schools, colleges & universities to true academic freedom of thought :multi:

See especially how Penn is pent up @ being penned up from teaching the plain truth that hundreds of top scientists, from astronomy to micro-biology, have found in Intelligent Design - so that they reject the atheist brainwashing indoctrination of the 'education' system -see Evo Goes To Court thread :roll:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18041

See how such brainwashing, by 24x7, 1-World-Govt media control, only helps bring on the much-prophesied worst global tyranny ever - @ End Times/Bible Prophecy forum's Sign of the Beast thread :evil:

Meanwhile, see today's news attempt to force http://www.parliament.uk into unnecessarily draconian measures in the proposed Anti-Terrorism Bill

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02112005/325/p ... oiled.html

Is it truth? Or propaganda? :o

Why only published today, if not to try to instil panic? :

Do lobby your MP @ the well-established history of dictatorial rulers using crisis creation to make citizens accept unnecessary & dangerous loss of freedom & increase of centralised control :angel:

Back with links..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 190#219190

God bless!

Ian

Here's 11 learned articles @ the Global Flood by creationist experts:-

http://www.ucb.co.uk/index.cfm?itemid=225#648

& 1 by IDers:-

Discovery Institute - News - Evolution of Intelligent Design
Scientific creationism points to gaps in the fossil record, geological evidence
of the effects of global flood and examples in nature that give the ...
http://www.discovery.org/.../index.php?command=view& program=News&id=2985&callingPage=discoMainPage - 14k - 5 Nov 2005 - Cached - Similar pages


Here's 4 @ the Grand Canyon:-

http://www.creationism.org/topbar/grandcanyon.htm

Back with more...

Here's Intelligent Design experts' denial of Darwinmian drivel:-

http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestio ... nEvolution

Here's links to many different aspects of the global flood of Genesis 6:-

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp

& to many @ the geology aspects:-

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... eology.asp

 

[Quath]

The first link just brings up news feed with the top one being "Billy Graham Celebrates 87th Birthday Today."

The second link looks broken. You should try to wrap it with url tags.

The Grand Canyon is a really bad defence. For one if it were a result of the Flood, then the whole world should be covered in Grand Canyons. There are many other things wrong about the Grand Canyon analysis, that it is hard to go into all of them, but here are the top 10 problems from Talk Origin:

• We know what to expect of a sudden massive flood, namely:
  *a wide, relatively shallow bed, not a deep, sinuous river channel.
  *anastamosing channels (i.e., a braided river system), not a single, well-*developed channel.
  *coarse-grained sediments, including boulders and gravel, on the floor of the canyon.
  *streamlined relict islands.
  
  The Scablands in Washington state were produced by such a flood and show such features (Allen et al. 1986; Baker 1978; Bretz 1969; Waitt 1985). Such features are also seen on Mars at Kasei Vallis and Ares Vallis (Baker 1978; NASA Quest n.d.). They do not appear in the Grand Canyon. Compare photos of the scablands: http://daac.gsfc.nasa.gov/DAAC_DOCS/geo ... _F-27.HTML with the Grand Canyon: http://daac.gsfc.nasa.gov/DAAC_DOCS/geo ... E_F-7.HTML
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• The same flood that was supposed to carve the Grand Canyon was also supposed to lay down the miles of sediment (and a few lava flows) from which the canyon is carved. A single flood cannot do both. Creationists claim that the year of the Flood included several geological events, but that still stretches credulity.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• The Grand Canyon contains some major meanders. Upstream of the Grand Canyon, the San Juan River (around Gooseneck State Park, southeast Utah) has some of the most extreme meandering imaginable. The canyon is 1,000 feet high, with the river flowing five miles while progressing one mile as the crow flies (American Southwest n.d.). There is no way a single massive flood could carve this.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• Recent flood sediments would be unconsolidated. If the Grand Canyon were carved in unconsolidated sediments, the sides of the canyon would show obvious slumping.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• The inner canyon is carved into the strongly metamorphosed sediments of the Vishnu Group, which are separated by an angular unconformity from the overlying sedimentary rocks, and also in the Zoroaster Granite, which intrudes the Vishnu Group. These rocks, by all accounts, would have been quite hard before the Flood began.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• Along the Grand Canyon are tributaries, which are as deep as the Grand Canyon itself. These tributaries are roughly perpendicular to the main canyon. A sudden massive flood would not produce such a pattern.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• Sediment from the Colorado River has been shifted northward over the years by movement along the San Andreas and related faults (Winker and Kidwell 1986). Such movement of the delta sediment would not occur if the canyon were carved as a single event.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• The lakes that Austin proposed as the source for the carving floodwaters are not large compared with the Grand Canyon itself. The flood would have to remove more material than the floodwaters themselves.
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• If a brief interlude of rushing water produced the Grand Canyon, there should be many more such canyons. Why are there not other grand canyons surrounding all the margins of all continents?
  [/*:m:9cd20]
• There is a perfectly satisfactory gradual explanation for the formation of the Grand Canyon that avoids all these problems. Sediments deposited about two billion years ago were metamorphosed and intruded by granite to become today's basement layers. Other sediments were deposited in the late Proterozoic and were subsequently folded, faulted, and eroded. More sediments were deposited in the Paleozoic and Mesozoic, with a period of erosion in between. The Colorado Plateau started rising gradually about seventy million years ago. As it rose, existing rivers deepened, carving through the previous sediments (Harris and Kiver 1985, 273-282). [/*:m:9cd20]

The Discovery link did not say much except that some scientists do not believe in Darwinism.

The last links had actual articles. However, refuting them belongs in Christianity and Science section.

Quath