The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse then the Rapture

[rainbows]

Stormcrow you stated the following;

John was not writing to people living 2,000+ years after the fact! He was writing to the seven churches of Asia (what we now call central Turkey). The vision he has of the Four Horsemen, therefore, is a vision of things that have both happened, are happening, and will soon happen, not to us: to those living at the time he wrote this!

There is a problem with this opinion.

Revelation 6

3 When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature
saying, “Come.” 4 And another, a red horse, went out; and to him
who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that
men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

The rider of the red horse takes "peace" from
the earth. So when did the earth have peace?

When did men not slay one another?

Remember Israel had been under Roman
occupation for a century by AD60.

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow you stated the following;

John was not writing to people living 2,000+ years after the fact! He was writing to the seven churches of Asia (what we now call central Turkey). The vision he has of the Four Horsemen, therefore, is a vision of things that have both happened, are happening, and will soon happen, not to us: to those living at the time he wrote this!

There is a problem with this opinion.

Really? Maybe you should take it up with John:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.” Revelation 1:10-11 (ESV)

You can't read Revelation 6 in any other context than that which is provided by Revelation 1.

Revelation 6

3 When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature
saying, “Come.” 4 And another, a red horse, went out; and to him
who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that
men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

The rider of the red horse takes "peace" from
the earth. So when did the earth have peace?

When did men not slay one another?

This is a direct reference to Christ's words in Matthew 10 and John 15-16:

Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, Matthew 10:17 (ESV)

Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, Matthew 10:21 (ESV)

They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. John 16:2 (ESV)

Remember Israel had been under Roman
occupation for a century by AD60.

I've never forgotten. The spirit of "men (Jews) slaying one another" overtook the first century persecutors of the church, beginning with the stoning of Stephen in Jerusalem. Read Acts 7, 8 and 9.

That same spirit of fratricide reached it's peak in the civil war (the "great tribulation") that engulfed Jerusalem in 66 AD.

As to understanding Revelation 1, you can read all I've summarized about it in this thread:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40550&page=1

 

[Vic C.]

Well, for what it's worth, I have a 'slightly' different take on the first rider, due to the Greek word used for crown (stephanos). If it were royalty, say Jesus, John would have written, diadema.

Stephanos basically means, trophy or closer, reward.

The first rider is the Lord's ekklesia, riding and spreading the Gospel, "conquering" people for the Lord.

 

[Stormcrow]

The first rider is the Lord's ekklesia, riding and spreading the Gospel, "conquering" people for the Lord.

Certainly makes more sense than other interpretations I have seen.

 

[Vic C.]

Certainly makes more sense than other interpretations I have seen.

Thanks. You could plug it in almost anywhere too, the first century, into the Historicist view, amil, etc.

 

[Sinthesis]

Well, for what it's worth, I have a 'slightly' different take on the first rider, due to the Greek word used for crown (stephanos). If it were royalty, say Jesus, John would have written, diadema.

Stephanos basically means, trophy or closer, reward.

The first rider is the Lord's ekklesia, riding and spreading the Gospel, "conquering" people for the Lord.

Well now you're just getting specific.