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The Gullibility or Vainglory of the religious man.

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#1
How is it that a religious man can redefine Scripture to narrate his OWN understanding and doctrines of what God has already made clear. Self will is the vanity of men to intrude into the sphere of divine authority (trespassing). God has a doctrine that is true and divine, and will be fulfilled just as he has planned it. But the religious, come hell or high water will declare their knowledge as final, even changing the clear Scripture to mean something else, ignoring completely the Truth because they are sure they are right....not by Spiritual revelation or confirmation, but because they don't think God would do things that way because it does not make sense to them. The arrogance of teaching their own doctrine as correct. The vanity of the religious man will look down at his nose at you and write you off as a trouble maker. The usual thought about the born again believer sharing Scripture with the religious is that we do not know what we are talking about. There is a born again believer and there are tares. The believer relies on the Spirit of Sonship and is not apart from the Father. The tare thinks he is doing God a favor by preaching the doctrines of men. So who knows who is correct? I know what is true because of my teacher and personal fellowship and visions. But only I, the Lord and other born again believers know that. Everyone else believes in themselves. When the Lord comes for His completed body, will He raise those up who do not believe in the Rapture? Is a man saved that believes that you must be baptized to be saved? Is it enough to save a man the believes that Christ was Just a good man? If an ignorant or uneducated man knows nothing except to have faith in the Lord, he needs nothing else, he has it all, and is more likely to sit at the foot of Christ then the most Biblical educated individual.
 
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#2
If an ignorant or uneducated man knows nothing except to have faith in the Lord, he needs nothing else,
That is true.
But for those who are not ignorant and/or illiterate; the scriptures are God's teaching for us.
Unfortunately vainglorious religionists fabricate "new revelations" and promote their "winds of doctrine" which seduce the gullible.
The "rapture" is one of those fabricated "winds of doctrine" which no one, anywhere in the entire Church, ever taught prior to John Darby. So who is resurrected in the "rapture" is moot as it is a false teaching.
And, yes, if at all possible, you do need to be baptized to be saved because Jesus commanded you to be. (Mat 28:19)
But, no, Christ was not just a "good man." He is God incarnate.
To believe that those who do not believe as you do are not "born again believers" is arrogance.

And that's my personal opinion in response to YOUR personal opinion.

See you on the other side of the pearly gates.

iakov the fool
 
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#3
The "rapture" is one of those fabricated "winds of doctrine" which no one, anywhere in the entire Church, ever taught prior to John Darby.
This is not true Jim! Which makes my point about taking false information of men and making it doctrine so called. Men are not looking for the Truth, only anyone that backs up their denominational doctrines.
 
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#4
That is true.
But for those who are not ignorant and/or illiterate; the scriptures are God's teaching for us.
Unfortunately vainglorious religionists fabricate "new revelations" and promote their "winds of doctrine" which seduce the gullible.
The "rapture" is one of those fabricated "winds of doctrine" which no one, anywhere in the entire Church, ever taught prior to John Darby. So who is resurrected in the "rapture" is moot as it is a false teaching.
And, yes, if at all possible, you do need to be baptized to be saved because Jesus commanded you to be. (Mat 28:19)
But, no, Christ was not just a "good man." He is God incarnate.
To believe that those who do not believe as you do are not "born again believers" is arrogance.

And that's my personal opinion in response to YOUR personal opinion.

See you on the other side of the pearly gates.

iakov the fool
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

How many educated men did Christ call to be his apostles. As far as I know, none but Paul (Saul). His education as Saul hindered him. After his name was changed to Paul he made the statement that he left those things before and now only knows Christ and him crucified. He gloried only in the cross.
 
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#5
This is not true Jim! Which makes my point about taking false information of men and making it doctrine so called. Men are not looking for the Truth, only anyone that backs up their denominational doctrines.
If what I said is not true then please cite anyone who taught the "rapture" teaching according to Darby et. al. before 1800.
 
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#6
If what I said is not true then please cite anyone who taught the "rapture" teaching according to Darby et. al. before 1800.
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

How about Ephraim the Syrian A.D. 376, or even The Shepherd of Hermes in the first century after the death of Christ?
 
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#7
If what I said is not true then please cite anyone who taught the "rapture" teaching according to Darby et. al. before 1800.
It would not do any good Jim, You are defending a denominational doctrine and not an individual belief. If your denomination changed their doctrine would you defend the change? What is different about the born again believer is we are each a stone individually building the temple of God, joined together by the Holy Spirit. We learn from God and share with each other of Spiritual things. Called and predestined for God's purpose, (Rom. 8:28-34) Just like the Disciples. (Acts of the Apostles) Paul preached the Gospel before He even met the disciples. (Gal. 1:10-24; 2:1-14) But you should have checked church history without bias of the rapture doctrine, before you claimed Darbe)y
 

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#10
It would not do any good Jim, You are defending a denominational doctrine and not an individual belief. If your denomination changed their doctrine would you defend the change? What is different about the born again believer is we are each a stone individually building the temple of God, joined together by the Holy Spirit. We learn from God and share with each other of Spiritual things. Called and predestined for God's purpose, (Rom. 8:28-34) Just like the Disciples. (Acts of the Apostles) Paul preached the Gospel before He even met the disciples. (Gal. 1:10-24; 2:1-14) But you should have checked church history without bias of the rapture doctrine, before you claimed Darbe)y
So, what you're saying is, you're right because you "learned from God" and Jim didn't learn from God because he disagrees with you. Do you know what that sounds like, what that can be an indication of?
 

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#11
How is it that a religious man can redefine Scripture to narrate his OWN understanding and doctrines of what God has already made clear. Self will is the vanity of men to intrude into the sphere of divine authority (trespassing). God has a doctrine that is true and divine, and will be fulfilled just as he has planned it. But the religious, come hell or high water will declare their knowledge as final, even changing the clear Scripture to mean something else, ignoring completely the Truth because they are sure they are right....not by Spiritual revelation or confirmation, but because they don't think God would do things that way because it does not make sense to them. The arrogance of teaching their own doctrine as correct. The vanity of the religious man will look down at his nose at you and write you off as a trouble maker. The usual thought about the born again believer sharing Scripture with the religious is that we do not know what we are talking about. There is a born again believer and there are tares. The believer relies on the Spirit of Sonship and is not apart from the Father. The tare thinks he is doing God a favor by preaching the doctrines of men. So who knows who is correct? I know what is true because of my teacher and personal fellowship and visions. But only I, the Lord and other born again believers know that. Everyone else believes in themselves. When the Lord comes for His completed body, will He raise those up who do not believe in the Rapture? Is a man saved that believes that you must be baptized to be saved? Is it enough to save a man the believes that Christ was Just a good man? If an ignorant or uneducated man knows nothing except to have faith in the Lord, he needs nothing else, he has it all, and is more likely to sit at the foot of Christ then the most Biblical educated individual.
Being a religious man has nothing to do with it; being human does. I am a religious man because I follow Christ as expressed through the religion of Christianity. Be careful to not promote an unbiblical, naïve view of understanding Scripture. God intends for us to wrestle with the teachings of Scripture and as there are some difficult things, we are going to come away with different understandings of some things. That has nothing to do with one person being born again and another not.

And, I agree with Jim, there likely is no "rapture".
 
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#12
So, what you're saying is, you're right because you "learned from God" and Jim didn't learn from God because he disagrees with you. Do you know what that sounds like, what that can be an indication of?
Yes I do understand what I'am saying, and it has nothing to do with how you worded your posting that has any thing to do with
what I posted to Jim.(You must be born again) Yes, there is a teaching from the Holy Spirit sent from the Father (John chapters 16 and 17). And I do know the difference of the doctrines of men from the Doctrine of Christ. If I said I did not know, THEN I would be a liar. Free, the Church (body of Christ) is a calling by God. (Eph. 1:3-5) It is not something you join (John chapters 16-17) and I do know the indication, I was contending for the faith. No one should be offended by the Truth. But Jim understands what I believe and I understand what Jim believes, and we are at odds on doctrines.
 
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#13
And, I agree with Jim, there likely is no "rapture".
And that puts us at odds on that Scriptural proof Doctrine of being taken away before Jacobs trouble (Tribulation). And it has everything to do with being born again. God said so (John 3:3) I was born again....as are all born again believers.
 
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#14
How about posting where those sources make that claim?
hello Free, dirtfarmer here

I searched the topic "did the rapture teaching begin with Darby" and was sent to the web sight " arewelinvinginthelastdays"
 

for_his_glory

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#15
There are divisions in a mans doctrine, but only one doctrine is truth as that is what Jesus has already spoke and gave us in the scriptures. The I am right and you are wrong arguments bring no glory to the Lord, but only brings shame on those who sink to a level of kids fighting in the playground. We are to be mature adults presenting what we believe, but yet be opened enough to possibly see our own errors as I and many others have in times past.

This is an internet forum and we can not see how each of us study or who it is that leads us in our studies, IE: Pastor, mans commentaries, study books, websites, etc. ect. as all say they are lead by the Holy Spirit teaching them, but are they truly listening or is it because this is what this or that says. It is up to us individually to study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2 Timothy 2:15, 16.
 

for_his_glory

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#17
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

How about Ephraim the Syrian A.D. 376, or even The Shepherd of Hermes in the first century after the death of Christ?
hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

The false teachers who believe per-tribulation Rapture theology desperately misuse an ancient document called, "Pseudo-Ephraem" as proof that someone before 1830 AD believed it.

Pseudo-Ephrem teaches that Christians would escape the tribulation through death not rapture. The Latin translation twisted everything he wrote.

Latin Pseudo-Ephraem

"For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Syraic Pseudo-Ephraem
"Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!

http://www.bible.ca/rapture-pseudo-ephraem-latin-syraic-texts.htm
 
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#18
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In post 17, I stated what you have in your first quotation box, but I don't know where you came up with the second quotation box that you claim came from me.
 
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#19
There are divisions in a mans doctrine, but only one doctrine is truth as that is what Jesus has already spoke and gave us in the scriptures. The I am right and you are wrong arguments bring no glory to the Lord, but only brings shame on those who sink to a level of kids fighting in the playground. We are to be mature adults presenting what we believe, but yet be opened enough to possibly see our own errors as I and many others have in times past.

This is an internet forum and we can not see how each of us study or who it is that leads us in our studies, IE: Pastor, mans commentaries, study books, websites, etc. ect. as all say they are lead by the Holy Spirit teaching them, but are they truly listening or is it because this is what this or that says. It is up to us individually to study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2 Timothy 2:15, 16.
I gave you precious truths, and you did not acknowledge or recognize any of them.. And none of it was vain or profane
babbling.
Christ in us
Douglas Summers
 

for_his_glory

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#20
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In post 17, I stated what you have in your first quotation box, but I don't know where you came up with the second quotation box that you claim came from me.
Sorry about that. I'm not sure why that came up like that. Everything under "hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here" is what I wrote. Hope that clears it up for everyone.