The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by Papa Zoom, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

    John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

    People I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

    I don't think this verse means what people think it means. Clearly, the Holy Spirit doesn't guide any of into all truth because if He did, we'd know everything.

    We'd all agree on everything because it would be from God. No divisions.

    We wouldn't need each other for the "iron sharpens iron" thing because what's better that the HS?

    AND if it were true that the HS guides us into ALL truth, then this verse seems contradictory.

    1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    So chew on that and lets talk (nicely) about what this could mean. I think John 16:13 is quoted and applied out of its greater context. I'll share more on that later. I'd like to hear (positive and non-emotional) comments first to see if anyone has wondered about this as well.

    I put this in apologetics because it has to do with understanding and defending what we believe to be true. A skeptic could ask how it is we don't know everything since we claim the HS will guide us into all truth.
     
  2. iLOVE

    iLOVE Member

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    Most Christians are blinded with a veil over their face by the misinterpretation of the scriptures as Israel was and is to the very day (a evil spirit is behind this - that puts the Christian in bondage). They make the scriptures as a duty, instead of faith alone. It has always been hard for a Christian man then and now to give up the works of the flesh. They want to do what the scriptures says to do with the flesh (Romans 8:13), instead of following Gods prescribe order of victory which is placing Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus; which then allows the Holy Spirit to accomplish and bring victory and do what needs to be done in the Christian life. The Holy Spirit only works in the perimeters of Christ and the Finished Work. (Romans 8:2). "The Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus."

    The letter kills (i.e., reading the scriptures and understanding the scriptures are two different things), but the Spirit brings life: This is why Jesus wept over Jerusalem because they have missed their opportunity (Luke 19:41-44).
     
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  3. chessman

    chessman Member

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    The "you" in v13 is the same "you" that's in the preceding verses:

    John 16:2 They will expel you from the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone who kills you will think they are offering service to God.

    I wonder how many people that think the Holy Spirit guides them into "all truth" have been expelled from synagogues???
     
  4. Runner

    Runner Member

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    I believe it means essentially what John Owen wrote in the 17th Century (brought up to date for modern ears): "But what does Jesus mean by ‘all truth’? He does not mean ‘all truth’ absolutely. The Holy Spirit’s work is not to lead us into all historical, geographical, astronomical and mathematical truth. The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth concerning the mysteries of the kingdom of God, of the gospel, of the counsel of God about the salvation of the church by Christ (Acts 20:27). The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth necessary for faith and obedience (Acts 20:21)."

    I don't believe the verse means in any sense "The Holy Spirit will ensure that your understanding of the Bible is accurate." If that's the promise, the Holy Spirit must either be asleep at the wheel or a big-time prankster, judging from the constant fussing and feuding over what hundreds of different Bible passages actually mean or whether a particular doctrine is actually found in the Bible at all.

    As I stated in your other thread, if two sincere, Spirit-filled Christians prayerfully read a Bible passage, I don't believe it is at all inevitable that they will arrive at the same understanding. Sometimes, of course, they will. But the Bible is a living word that must speak to all people across all cultures, circumstances and times. What the "truth" of a Bible passage may be for me is not necessarily what the "truth" of the passage is for you. Even John 11:35 ("Jesus wept") may have a different meaning for me than for someone else.

    I am not speaking about relativism - "whatever is true for you is OK with me, as long as it doesn't interfere with what's true for me." I am talking about God's intent and design that the Bible will speak to each of us in our circumstances. I am saying that in regard to many parts of the Bible God's truth may be flexible. Verses, passages and even entire books may have more than one valid interpretation. With prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, each of us will hopefully find the meaning that brings us closer to God.

    The alternative is to be constantly puzzled and angry because "the truth" into which the Holy Spirit supposedly guides you is different from "the truths" into which He supposedly guides thousands of other Christians. The mistake is in thinking that the Bible is a wooden book and that each passage has only one meaning and truth.
     
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  5. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Unity is a state of the heart. People willing to yield to the Spirit then naturally (for the moment at least) are accepting of their Brothers and Sisters differences without less than love. Conclusion? There's many people leaning upon their own understanding. When you read the word you pray first then open your heart to the Spirit. And your Brothers and Sisters. The Holy Spirit will give you revelation and understanding. I pray for wisdom and understanding a lot.

    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.../

    Plus, this is the 7th day since creation. The Sabbath. Jesus custom was to go into the temple on the Sabbath and teach. That's us! Pray for Jesus to come teach you! He just might. I've heard so many testimonies of people getting visit from Jesus. For real. That's what He does too, teach them. Then we'd all agree. We're all one body, but many members, different purpose each one, so there will be misunderstanding between members. Can a foot understand a hand? Love your Brother as yourself needs to gain some ground. And it starts with me, and you, and Her!! Lol. The Holy Spirit (or Jesus) both teach the same truth. Division comes from leaning upon our own understanding, while others are Spirit led. That's where confusions arise. Let loose of it Brothers and Sisters!! :pray

    That's the difference between spirit led and man's understanding. Man can't even comprehend God. God don't agree with us! Lol!!!
    Press in to the Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  6. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    Exactly what I am getting at. Those words are to the Disciples and are not prescriptive to us. This is not to preclude the Holy Spirit's work in our lives as we live our daily lives studying and living out the Word.
     
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  7. billybalke

    billybalke Member

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    It was not to "disciples" in general but only to the apostles of Jesus the Christ. To none other were these words spoken. See Jn.13 begining.
     
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  8. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    It truly is up to each of us to read and study the whole of scripture comparing OT with NT, times of history, culture and people to whom God is speaking to and the purpose of what He is saying. God will only give us what we need to know for the purpose and timing of His ministry to those individuals who need to hear Him speak.

    Gods word is literal and Spiritual and it's the Spiritual meaning that we can misinterpret if we are either reading with a logical mind or relying solely on others to teach us. There are times when I am not completely sure I am hearing the Holy Spirit and it's at those times I wait for confirmation usually by comparing scripture with scripture until it all comes to light.

    B.I.B.L.E 9 (Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth) Sometimes all we need is the basic.
     
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  9. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    But we don't exist in a vacuum; no man is an island. We are to listen to what others have to say, what others have found in their study, what commentaries and other books have to say, what pastors, teachers, and scholars have to say. We must take all that into consideration as part of our study.
     
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  10. ezrider

    ezrider Member

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    Yes, those words were to the disciples, but they are very much prescriptive to us.

    John 14:25-26
    These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    The disciples walked with Jesus and were taught by Jesus, but they did not understand him. They would not understand the things that He said until the Holy Spirit would come, and bring to remembrance what he taught them.

    How is it prescriptive to us? When we read the Red Letters in the Bible, we are hearing the words that Jesus taught as one of his disciples, but when we hear those words as spoken by a man, we do not understand them because they were veiled in His flesh. If we want the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth, then we should return to the RED LETTERS with a vigor, and meditate on the words of Jesus (for they were not his words).

    We should listen to hear the Spirit of the Voice of those Words, the Red Letters.
     
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  11. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    Yes, we do need to consider all that is given to us, but it is up to each individual to discern what is truth and what is error, 1 John 4:1-6.
     
  12. Kidron

    Kidron Member

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    Well, i have to disagree with the poster.

    I have a different viewpoint.

    1.) As John 14:6 says that Jesus Himself is """"THE Truth, """", then i understand that when the Holy Spirit is leading someone to Jesus, to receive Him as savior, then the Holy Spirit is LEADING them into ALL truth, as Jesus IS all truth.
    So, to be led to Jesus, who Himself is all wisdom and truth, is to be led into all truth.
    When you have Jesus, you have all truth, as He IS THE Truth, and its the Holy Spirit who led you there.

    To go a bit farther...
    The NT says that the "eyes of our understanding" can be enlightened.
    This is your inner man being given revelation, and all revelation, as given by the Holy Spirit, is also Truth.
    So, in both cases, you are being not only led to THE Truth, you are having the truth REVEALED to you.
    The Holy Spirit does this., exactly as the scriptures tell you will happen.
     
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  13. new covenant preacher

    new covenant preacher Member

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    Papa, in part, you are correct. The Holy Spirit does not teach us all truths.
    But that is not what is presented here, The Spirit guides us into all truth

    As far as the different understandings of what the Bible is saying.
    Did you not state that the Bible does not say anything? LOL Just saying.
    And finally, the different understandings simply represent the spirit of man and his various opinions vs the Spirit filled man that can rightly divide the word of truth through the holy Spirit.

    1Jo 2:26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


    Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    If Christ’s Spirit does not dwell within you, then you are not one of His. Great deception within Christianity is achieved when it is widely held that to be filled with the Spirit, is an automatic occurrence when one claims to believe in Jesus.
    Believing in Him and following Him through the true power of the Holy Spirit are very different events.
    Far too many confuse the tingling sensation they experience from an entertaining well orchestrated cinematic like production, at a building called the church, with that of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.


    Papa here is the answer to your question namely "Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on"?

    1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    The Christian believer must rely on the Holy Spirit to uncover or reveal Christ’s testimony, as His truth is spiritually discerned. Far too many have a false sense of reality and eternal security as a result of the great deception within Christianity, revealed through the deceptive teachings of men that are devoid of the Spirit of Truth. These charlatans, who are only interested in worldly pursuits, prevent their followers from growing in the Lord and having a true relationship with Him.
     
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  14. ezra

    ezra Member

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    26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.

    1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
    28And now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming.…

    i do believe the holy spirit will lead us to all truth provided we want the truth and depending on what truth you want . when it comes to interpretation of scriptures tongues baptism of the spirit eternal security walk away from salvation be lost again .. that leading into the truth . is hard to explain . not every one will see scriptures the same way.. but the spirit will lead us into truths for our Christian walk.. a discussion i watched the other day was on the apostolic Pentecostals aka oneness. while i can not agree with that teaching as many believe to be saved one must speak in tongues . if that be the case then throw out Grace being justified by faith . throw out the atonement / propitiation by the Blood..
     
  15. ezra

    ezra Member

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    good question each denomination feels there teaching in correct . so who is right who is wrong
     
  16. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Those who are guided by the Holy Spirit, are the ones who are correct in their doctrine.

    However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. John 16:13



    JLB
     
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  17. ezra

    ezra Member

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    ok so look at the other side of the coin . would it be fair to say to the ASOG by the baptist that your doctrine of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is wrong? the evidence of tongues or the ASOG say to the BAPTIST your wrong not lead of the spirit of truth..... while i do understand what you say. i certainly can say i am led by the spirit of truth . can i still error ? yes and so can the rest of us. is there room for correction in me? there better be we are a W.I.P and growth never stops and that includes learning. i feel this way while i don,t agree with many doctrines . when we get to heaven it wont matter ..
     
  18. JohnDB

    JohnDB Staff Member Moderator

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    OK...
    But what about Hezekiah?
    (One of my favorite questions lately)

    Let me put it to you in this way.

    I have recurring bronchitis. When I get sick I go to the doctor. The doctor went to school and learned how to deal with sick pups like me. The doctor then tells me what pills to take and how often. I rely upon his/her education and experience and research into the subject even though it's my body.
    Now...
    If I went to the doctor and he said, " Don't Tell me anything about your problem, I didn't go to school, but I'm going to pray and the Holy Spirit is going to tell me all I need to know about how to heal your problem that I know nothing about.....

    I'm getting another doctor.
    I'd be an idiot not to.

    But for some reason people want to create magic solutions out of their imaginations instead of actually harnessing what God has spent the lives of some of his favorite people to create...the Bible.
    It isn't like everyone is going to study hard or is able to sift through the sciences of history and anthropology and geography and psychology to get the truth....or at the same time see the beauty of the arts of language applied to the words on the page and extract what the Bible says.

    It's pure pride and ego to think that prayer alone with no action is all that's needed to be a powerful agent for God. And then a whole bunch of idiots with itching ears who actually give the egomaniac a pulpit and venue to speak from.

    And it happens every day.
     
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  19. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
     
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  20. ezra

    ezra Member

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    John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.
    ok so before this turns into another 32 page debate on who has the truth and who does not... so lets try to understand this what truth does the spirit guide us.

    could this be the truth He guides us to ?
    Romans 8
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, “Abba! Father!”

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God;

    i do believe there is more to this Truth than we think...

    all though this is not my post and i am in no way trying or wanting to hijack it.... please use scripture
     
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