The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by Papa Zoom, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. MarkT

    MarkT Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,412
    Christian:
    Yes
    It doesn't matter who he said it to, Jesus' word is spirit, and everyone who is born of the Spirit receives this saying.
     
    Justicewolf likes this.
  2. Justicewolf

    Justicewolf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    310
    :thumbsup And Romans 5:5

    John 16:7-15
    Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

    Romans 5:5
    And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
    and, 1 Corinthians 6:19
    Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

    Romans 8:9
    You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

    :readbible:thumbsup
     
  3. ezra

    ezra Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,144
    Christian:
    Yes
    maybe you would like to go through each post and point these strawmen and Misdirection fallacies to say
    Romans 15:4 For whatever things were written formerly, were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. i understand the bases of the post,,not my 1st rodeo even though i am only a H.S graduate . nothing in the Bible is written to us personally . but it is to be used for our benefit ....all scripture . ..back to making scare crows straw is running low
     
    whatgoeshere? likes this.
  4. MarkT

    MarkT Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,412
    Christian:
    Yes
    Do you know what a guide is? The Spirit guides us into all the truth. So those who possess the Spirit of truth are always being guided into the truth. They are not going to follow some stranger who says the Holy Spirit does not guide you into all truth.
     
  5. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    The issue is, John 16:13 is for the disciples to whom Jesus directly spoke. Many Christians, including many on these forums, use that verse to say that is all they need to come to the truth of Scripture--pray and read and the truth will be revealed. There is a general sense in which the Holy Spirit guides us to the necessary truth but that comes through a variety of ways.
     
  6. MarkT

    MarkT Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,412
    Christian:
    Yes
    I don't know what many believe, but it's my understanding, if you can hear his voice, then he is indeed speaking to you.
     
    whatgoeshere? likes this.
  7. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    That has nothing to do with the verse in question.
     
  8. ezra

    ezra Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,144
    Christian:
    Yes
    i disagree on the disciples only. the same spirit Jesus was teaching/leaving is for us today.. there is not 2 different spirits he shows all truth nothing held back..once again this truth is not a all knowing .but a leading teaching changed from Glory to Glory 2 Corinthians 3:17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiledfaces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes fromthe Lord, who is the Spirit.


    King James Bible
    But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.. truth as we need it
    no disagreement on that
     
  9. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    I have previously given the context and how that shows it is something for the disciples only. You cannot ignore context. Any idea of two different spirits has nothing to do with it.

    I don't see what any of this has to do with what I have posted.
     
  10. ezra

    ezra Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,144
    Christian:
    Yes
    well of course .your context tells us 2 different spirits then . sorry to say but we have the same spirit . looks like the majority see it different ,,but then again were all wrong ..you show me scripture that says the spirit the disciples had is different from what we have
     
  11. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    I have said no such thing nor can it be implied from what I have given. Perhaps you need to reread what I have written and then reread the passage.
     
  12. ezra

    ezra Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,144
    Christian:
    Yes
    not at all your implying since it is written to the disciples.it does not pertain to us
     
  13. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    Which has nothing to do with two spirits. Do we all have the same gifts? No. Does that mean there are multiple spirits? Of course not. Can the Holy Spirit say different things to different people? Of course. Does that mean there is more than one spirit? Of course not.
     
  14. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Thanks JAG. I appreciate the feedback. The title was meant to be provocative but the substance of the argument is meant to get people to think about how we approach our understanding of the Bible. There have been some pretty good exchanges in here and those that carefully considered all my points I think generally agree with the thesis of the thread.
     
    JAG .. likes this.
  15. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Not in the same way. Not written to us, but yes for us. The bigger question is what does it mean in practical terms and how do I apply the truth to our lives?
     
  16. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    because no one on the planet in this history of the Church has ever known all truth. The Church is divided. Christians in small groups don't agree on biblical passages. You can't even have a decent theology discussion on this forum without someone getting their undies all in a knot. Either the Spirit is inept or we are the problem. I say we are the problem. We can't even decide on the mode of baptism let alone it's importance in the church!

    The Holy Spirit is our guide to Truth but we will never know all truth this side of heaven. We see through a glass dimly. So when we think the HS has taught us some truth we ought to be very careful and cautious to be right.

    If you and I disagree on the theological point, and I say to you that the Spirit guided me to my conclusion, are you prepared to throw away your belief and adopt mine? Why not since I was guided by the Spirit?
     
  17. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    And as I've stated over and over in this thread I don't dispute the Holy Spirit's work in the lives of believers in Jesus.
     
  18. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Of course I know what a guide is.

    Not all truth Mark but yes, if you posses the Truth you were guided to that by the HS. You will not always find understanding (truth) because something we see through a glass dimly. Other things we attribute to the Spirit's working in our lives but it's just our bias or something else at work.
     
  19. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Exactly and we see this sort of problem in the Church all the time. It probably accounts for the many divisions among us.
     
    Free likes this.
  20. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,409
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Why isn't it the case that my thesis is 100% right since I'm being led by the Spirit? ( I am after all a Spirit filled Christian and have given this much thought and study. Perhaps ya all should just adopt my view?)

    I'm joking of course. But the fact that I am stating one thing that differs with many of you ought to tell you that someone's not getting it right so apparently the Spirit is slipping up.
     

Share This Page