The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

[ezra]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[Papa Zoom]

Well then I'm doing it right. 100% of my doctrinal understanding is perfectly correct. ( thanks HS! ). It's the rest of you that are messed up!

 

[JLB]

ok so look at the other side of the coin . would it be fair to say to the ASOG by the baptist that your doctrine of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is wrong? the evidence of tongues or the ASOG say to the BAPTIST your wrong not lead of the spirit of truth..... while i do understand what you say. i certainly can say i am led by the spirit of truth . can i still error ? yes and so can the rest of us. is there room for correction in me? there better be we are a W.I.P and growth never stops and that includes learning. i feel this way while i don,t agree with many doctrines . when we get to heaven it wont matter ..

Please explain what all this has to do with my statement?

Those who are guided by the Holy Spirit, are the ones who are correct in their doctrine.


Do you believe that doctrine that does not come from the Holy Spirit is truth?



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

NO ONE has a perfect theology and NO ONE PERSON ON THE PLANET has a perfect doctrine (except the arrogant who only THINK they do). !

 

[Papa Zoom]

Why this thread was started in the first place is to get people to think honestly about what they think they know. Only the arrogant fall back on "The HS led me to this truth." And 4 different theologians with 4 different positions were ALL led by the HS to 4 different conclusions.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV) 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Truth is none of you KNOW anything in the same way God knows it. You believe what you believe and you certainly are right on many things. But NOT all things.

One thing many of you lack is the humility to admit to that. Like RC Sproul always says, "I could be wrong but this is what I believe and here is why I believe it."

 

[ezra]

Please explain what all this has to do with my statement?

Those who are guided by the Holy Spirit, are the ones who are correct in their doctrine.


Do you believe that doctrine that does not come from the Holy Spirit is truth?



JLB

it has every thing to do with your statement a post on when eternal life begins was closed? why would that be ? every body was right it turned to eternal security vs you can lose your salvation in the end nobody came out on top of being correct. i believe the way i do because i studied it out i have asked the Lord for guidance i do feel i am led of the spirit . but as i stated there is room for change and over the years i have changed . for example 20 years ago i would never say the word eternal life . due to the fact i thought it meant i believed in eternal security . since that time through study and the holy spirit showing me . i can say with out a doubt our salvation is very secure. but it does not give us a license to sin.....given that small explanation i agree %100 with this ->

NO ONE has a perfect theology and NO ONE PERSON ON THE PLANET has a perfect doctrine (except the arrogant who only THINK they do). !

look we all like to think we are right . we are all trying to do the best we can in our belief ..


one thing i did notice i made a post asking exactly what was the truth the HOLY SPIRIT guides us to ... hmmmm could it be that none of are %100 sure? or would that just be a post that is chosen to be ignored . i dont have all the answers never have never will claim to . curious do you have all the answers and do you have the correct doctrine ? i know one who has its called JESUS WAY TRUTH LIFE . can i get a amen or do you want to correct my post?

{ Do you believe that doctrine that does not come from the Holy Spirit is truth?} yes i do but who has the right doctrine ?

 

[ezra]

Why this thread was started in the first place is to get people to think honestly about what they think they know. Only the arrogant fall back on "The HS led me to this truth." And 4 different theologians with 4 different positions were ALL led by the HS to 4 different conclusions.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV) 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Truth is none of you KNOW anything in the same way God knows it. You believe what you believe and you certainly are right on many things. But NOT all things.

One thing many of you lack is the humility to admit to that. Like RC Sproul always says, "I could be wrong but this is what I believe and here is why I believe it."

i can say it caused me to think what is the truth the spirit leads to .... i agree with this post

 

[JLB]

it has every thing to do with your statement a post on when eternal life begins was closed? why would that be ? every body was right it turned to eternal security vs you can lose your salvation in the end nobody came out on top of being correct. i believe the way i do because i studied it out i have asked the Lord for guidance i do feel i am led of the spirit . but as i stated there is room for change and over the years i have changed . for example 20 years ago i would never say the word eternal life . due to the fact i thought it meant i believed in eternal security . since that time through study and the holy spirit showing me . i can say with out a doubt our salvation is very secure. but it does not give us a license to sin.....given that small explanation i agree %100 with this -> look we all like to think we are right . we are all trying to do the best we can in our belief ..


one thing i did notice i made a post asking exactly what was the truth the HOLY SPIRIT guides us to ... hmmmm could it be that none of are %100 sure? or would that just be a post that is chosen to be ignored . i dont have all the answers never have never will claim to . curious do you have all the answers and do you have the correct doctrine ? i know one who has its called JESUS WAY TRUTH LIFE . can i get a amen or do you want to correct my post?

{ Do you believe that doctrine that does not come from the Holy Spirit is truth?} yes i do but who has the right doctrine ?

edited reba

That explains a lot.


JLB

 

[ezra]

Well at least I see that you believe doctrine that does not come from the Holy Spirit is truth.

That explains a lot.


JLB

aww how about you show where i said that .. but i did notice you never answered my question... a person dont have to be a rocket scientist to know the Holy spirit is true doctrine.. the teacher ..i have read many of your post and noticed one word has never been used by you and that is the word WRONG . dont take what i asked and turn it into what you want it to say

 

[Papa Zoom]

This is NOT directed at the last poster. Direct personal attacks on a person's faith will result in consequences. The reason I started this thread is to talk about how it is that we can have a verse in the Bible that says the HS guides into all truth and yet we know only in part. Not only that, but those who claim HS revelation on a particular understanding disagree. How is that possible? Because we are flawed. And the Bible also says we see only partially. So which is it? How is it reconciled?

 

[Pizza]

Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

My college Math professor guided me into all mathematical truths - as much as I could understand them. But just cause she (yes, SHE) was my guide to all truth - I still did not learn ALL mathematical truth.

I take the verse to simply mean that the Holy Spirit guides me into truth, all truth that there is - not that I absorb all of that truth.

Seems simple to me.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I take the verse to simply mean that the Holy Spirit guides me into truth, all truth that there is - not that I absorb all of that truth.

Or maybe just all truth that is necessary for you to know......

 

[ezra]

certainly there are hidden truths .but not so sure as far the post will go with the warning

 

[Douglas Summers]

eople I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

Hi, Papa, Not everyone who says they are a Christian are born again. People get tired of hearing this Scripture, but, "you must be born again" (John 3:7) Christ said so! In the visible church is a (field of wheat and tares Matt. 13:24-30) God knows those that are His. It does not matter if someone does not believe you have the Spirit, nor are we to decide who does or doesn't. What the church is responsible for is judging sin in the church, God will judge those outside the church (1 Cor. 5:12-13). Judging sin in the church is not condemning some one, but not allowing sin to reign in the church. (1 Cor. 5:4-6). So let them squabble. stay true to the Lord.

 

[Pizza]

Or maybe just all truth that is necessary for you to know......

Good point.

We know that we are not told everything, the Bible makes that clear.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Or maybe just all truth that is necessary for you to know......

This is what I think it means. OTOH, it may just mean something else altogether and if I remember, I'll deal with that tomorrow. I'll probably forget being an old farp (can't say fart here) . ;)

 

[Nick]

Seems to me it's about humility. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth. However it would indeed be pretty arrogant to assume we have it 100% correct, especially given human interpretation.

Perhaps we could all do with a dose of humility. I'm not much of a fan of people calling into question others' salvation because they have a different interpretation, especially of non-salvational issues.

 

[Randy]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Such gifts are outward via the HS not part of our being and are given/performed per the Will of Christ Jesus for HIS PURPOSES. The gift that is the new creation is the same and given to all. Christ in us

 

[Papa Zoom]

John 16:13 were the words spoken to the disciples of Jesus for a specific time and purpose. They are not written to us. That is not to say they are not written for us nor is it to say that the HS won't guide us into any truth. As one commentator puts it"

This does not answer the question, however, whether these words are addressed to all followers of Jesus, or only to his apostles. Since the in the context of the Last Discourse Jesus is preparing the Twelve to carry on his ministry after his departure, it seems best to take these statements as specifically related only to the Twelve. Some of this the Holy Spirit does directly for all believers today; other parts of this statement are fulfilled through the apostles (e.g., in the giving of the Book of Revelation the Spirit speaks through the apostles to the Church today of things to come). One of the implications of this is that a doctrine does not have to be traced back to an explicit teaching of Jesus to be authentic; all that is required is apostolic authority.

This reminds me of STR.org who pushes the idea of "never reading a Bible verse." Why? Because context matters. Who is the audience? Who are the recipients of those words? Who is speaking and to whom are the words intended?

This verse, John 16:13, is often used as a proof text that the HS guides us into all truth. But it's not true that we have all truth so it can't mean that. It can't be true that we'll be guided into all truth while at the same time seeing through a glass dimly.

It's like those who hold to Jermiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

People claim this verse as if it was written to them. Well, does God know His plans for you? Yes. But this verse is NOT written to any of us as a promise any more than is Jeremiah 44:11 is for you:

“Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I am determined to bring disaster on you and to destroy all Judah.

Yes the HS guides us into truth but not all (that can be known). And we ought to be very careful in assuming that we've heard from the HS just because we think so. The person you should least trust when it comes to understanding the biblical message is yourself.

How can you possibly "know" when you know something? How can you possibly know with certainty that what you think you know and believe is either true of false? Before you answer, remember there are at least 4 views on the nature of Hell. This all coming from Spirit filled men! How about eternal security? We don't agree on that either. How about the place of baptism in the life of the believer? Nope, that too is controversial. This list could go on and on. It's therefore arrogant to think you personally "know" anything over and above the "knowing" of other believers. You only believe things strongly (and with reason). But so do others who think differently.

When someone says, "The HS revealed this to me......" run for your lives!

 

[Douglas Summers]

We know that we are not told everything, the Bible makes that clear.

But we have everything we need to know. (Eph. 3:8-12)