The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

[MarkT]

A great picture of resting in Jesus. And also a great picture that Jesus will hold us up. We are secure in Him! No wonder the native people were able to understand having faith. They lived it everyday.

If they have a language, then they should have a word for faith. Unless they are subhuman having no knowledge of love, hope, faith.

What is it about our culture that allows us to know what faith is? Nothing.

Why put up obstacles to reading the Bible? It's very simple - confidence in a man's word.

You don't have to know Greek. You don't have to be Jewish. Paul, a Jew, said, 'Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? Gal. 3:2

Faith involves hearing, and hearing in our case is hearing the word of God.

 

[whatgoeshere?]

this posted twice. sorry

 

[brujaq]

I think I get the OP .. I think I learned something ..

 

[Papa Zoom]

I think I get the OP .. I think I learned something ..

And you learned?

 

[brujaq]

And you learned?

I was thinking about the times and situations the Lord has put me in . How the Holy Ghost will tell you what to do and speak when dealing with others when you had no clue and things began to flow then get results with confidence .. It usually leads to testimony even a miracle you had in no way planned or thought of sometimes .. Like this thread has prompted me to realize kinda .. Sometimes we just need to be willing and don't need to know ahead of time what the Lord has planned or I might mess it up .. So I've just been moved to lean towards We will be lead into all Truth during acts in Jesus name .. And prayer seeking understanding too of course ..

 

[ezra]

see here is the problem we limit what the holy spirit can and will do.. we want to set boundaries when in fact peter wrote 2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: . what is all things ? what ever we need at that moment of course some might want to argue different

 

[Free]

It does my heart good to read someone defend the truth from the first posts falshood. Praise God for his goodness.

And what is it that you think is false in the OP?

 

[whatgoeshere?]

And what is it that you think is false in the OP?

The title that is meant to gain our attention is false.

 

[Free]

The title that is meant to gain our attention is false.

I am asking what, exactly, is false about it. You cannot just claim it s false without actually addressing it and showing why it is false.

 

[whatgoeshere?]

I am asking what, exactly, is false about it. You cannot just claim it s false without actually addressing it and showing why it is false.

No, I don't actually. Because the OP itself does not prove through God's words that he expressly stated his Holy Spirit does not guide us into all truth.

 

[ezra]

opps there goes the golden cow kicked over.. ask the o.p what they mean

 

[Papa Zoom]

Papa Zoom, post: 1362399, member: 7241"]Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

People I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

I don't think this verse means what people think it means. Clearly, the Holy Spirit doesn't guide any of into all truth because if He did, we'd know everything.

We'd all agree on everything because it would be from God. No divisions.

We wouldn't need each other for the "iron sharpens iron" thing because what's better that the HS?

AND if it were true that the HS guides us into ALL truth, then this verse seems contradictory.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So chew on that and lets talk (nicely) about what this could mean. I think John 16:13 is quoted and applied out of its greater context. I'll share more on that later. I'd like to hear (positive and non-emotional) comments first to see if anyone has wondered about this as well.

I put this in apologetics because it has to do with understanding and defending what we believe to be true. A skeptic could ask how it is we don't know everything since we claim the HS will guide us into all truth.[/QUOTE]

 

[Papa Zoom]

Papa Zoom, post: 1362454, member: 7241"]Those words are to the Disciples and are not prescriptive to us. This is not to preclude the Holy Spirit's work in our lives as we live our daily lives studying and living out the Word. But Jesus' words to his disciples in this case are a message to them specifically, not to us in general.

 

[Papa Zoom]

NO ONE has a perfect theology and NO ONE PERSON ON THE PLANET has a perfect doctrine (except the arrogant who only THINK they do). !

 

[Papa Zoom]

Papa Zoom, post: 1373156, member: 7241"]Why this thread was started in the first place is to get people to think honestly about what they think they know. Only the arrogant fall back on "The HS led me to this truth." And 4 different theologians with 4 different positions were ALL led by the HS to 4 different conclusions.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV) 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Truth is none of you KNOW anything in the same way God knows it. You believe what you believe and you certainly are right on many things. But NOT all things.

One thing many of you lack is the humility to admit to that. Like RC Sproul always says, "I could be wrong but this is what I believe and here is why I believe it."[/QUOTE]

 

[Papa Zoom]

The reason I started this thread is to talk about how it is that we can have a verse in the Bible that says the HS guides into all truth and yet we know only in part. Not only that, but those who claim HS revelation on a particular understanding disagree. How is that possible? Because we are flawed. And the Bible also says we see only partially. So which is it? How is it reconciled?

 

[ezra]

if the words are to the disciples then they are for us also

 

[Papa Zoom]

John 16:13 were the words spoken to the disciples of Jesus for a specific time and purpose. They are not written to us. That is not to say they are not written for us nor is it to say that the HS won't guide us into any truth. As one commentator puts it"


This reminds me of STR.org who pushes the idea of "never reading a Bible verse." Why? Because context matters. Who is the audience? Who are the recipients of those words? Who is speaking and to whom are the words intended?

This verse, John 16:13, is often used as a proof text that the HS guides us into all truth. But it's not true that we have all truth so it can't mean that. It can't be true that we'll be guided into all truth while at the same time seeing through a glass dimly.

It's like those who hold to Jermiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

People claim this verse as if it was written to them. Well, does God know His plans for you? Yes. But this verse is NOT written to any of us as a promise any more than is Jeremiah 44:11 is for you:

Yes the HS guides us into truth but not all (that can be known). And we ought to be very careful in assuming that we've heard from the HS just because we think so. The person you should least trust when it comes to understanding the biblical message is yourself.

How can you possibly "know" when you know something? How can you possibly know with certainty that what you think you know and believe is either true of false? Before you answer, remember there are at least 4 views on the nature of Hell. This all coming from Spirit filled men! How about eternal security? We don't agree on that either. How about the place of baptism in the life of the believer? Nope, that too is controversial. This list could go on and on. It's therefore arrogant to think you personally "know" anything over and above the "knowing" of other believers. You only believe things strongly (and with reason). But so do others who think differently.

When someone says, "The HS revealed this to me......" run for your lives!

 

[Papa Zoom]

We don't have all Truth, we only know in part. We never have had all Truth and never will. As for the Spirit leading us to understand the Bible, I agree. The problem is all Christians think with their brain too and if they think it, they assume that thinking came from God. Which is why we have a multitude of different beliefs (and have had from the beginning) This is the point of the OP.

If it was God's intention that we'd know all truth then we'd know it. We don't know all truth because that's not what God promised. We know in part. And even what we think we know is flawed.

No one has a perfect theology. Only man who ever did was Jesus. No one before him has and no one after him has. If you disagree, show me that person.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Only in part. We don't have all Truth, we only know in part. We never have had all Truth and never will. As for the Spirit leading us to understand the Bible, I agree. The problem is all Christians think with their brain too and if they think it, they assume that thinking came from God. Which is why we have a multitude of different beliefs (and have had from the beginning) This is the point of the OP.
That's the point of the OP. We have to be careful assuming that what we believe (on a particular thing - the nature of hell for example or the place of baptism in a believers life) is from God and not simply from our own bias or learning. We see through a glass dimly and we ought to approach truth with caution. Some things are slam dunks: Jesus is God; We are saved by faith - it's a gift from God and not earned; but some things aren't so clear. There are a variety of "understandings" when it comes to things of the faith. But only one Truth. We will never know all Truth her on earth. The Bible is pretty clear on that and experience verifies this fact.