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The IMPOSSIBLE THREAD ON partial PRETERISM !!

reba

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The focus of our lives should be on the Cross .. Bare with me i don't have good words ... seems all the OT is looking to the Cross.. as is most all the NT does...... The God sent His Son...to die for us.. The fact He will return is great but not without the Cross.. The more i learned of basic dispensationalism the more i saw ( this is me and not every one) the waning of the Cross in that view...

God did have His feet on Mt Olivet.. He was called Jesus.. He is the Living Water... That flows... Yes His earthly ministry was 31/2 years so many of us will not do not see.. His Grace let them have the rest of that generation.. He prayed Father for give them... .. any other or more Sacrifice would be a slap in the face.. AS in My Son was not good enough for you? You want a bull or dove... ramblings over
 

Anto9us

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When this occurs Daniel says there shall be 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away; blessed is he who comes to the 1335 day, or 45 day later than day 1290. Does the 1290 days represent 3 1/2 years? (I'm not a Hebrew Calendar wiz).

When was the daily sacrifice taken away?
Oh, I dunno about the "extra 45 days" -- mystery to me.
 
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Yes, Paul did speak of "the Jerusalem that is above" and "a heavenly Mt Zion", so your view makes sense.

If I may expound a bit further.... In the days after King Solomon, the kingdoms were divided. The ten northern tribes of Israel, who worshiped upon Mt Hermon, also know as Sion. While the two southern tribes of the Jews (Judah and Benjamin) worshiped in Jerusalem.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, the lost sheep of the ten northern tribes. The Jews, of the southern kingdom, they ended up rejecting him.


Jeremiah 23:5-8
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
 
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Oh, I dunno about the "extra 45 days" -- mystery to me.
me too!

The only thing that would come to my mind would be the days between the resurrection of Christ and the day of Pentecost, but it is be no means settled in my mind.

Can we see the crucifixion as the daily sacrifice being taken away?


To me, we must keep in mind that when the disciples asked the question about when these things shall be, and what would be the sign of his coming, the disciples still DID NOT UNDERSTAND that Jesus was to be crucified.
 
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The focus of our lives should be on the Cross ..
My intent is not to disagree, but rather to take it further. Our lives must focus on more than the cross, it must focus on the Spirit of Christ. If we focus only on the cross, then I think we miss much. The focus of the cross is that of the image of a man and his death. We should be more interested and focused on His Spirit and in His Life.

Matthew 23:16-22
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
 

Anto9us

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Can we see the crucifixion as the daily sacrifice being taken away?
I certainly don't see how God would honor any other sacrifice SINCE the Cross -- the veil was rent from top to bottom -- it is very uncomfortable thinking that bulls, rams, goats being slaughtered would ever mean anything again
 

reba

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My intent is not to disagree, but rather to take it further. Our lives must focus on more than the cross, it must focus on the Spirit of Christ. If we focus only on the cross, then I think we miss much. The focus of the cross is that of the image of a man and his death. We should be more interested and focused on His Spirit and in His Life.
That is exactly what i was trying to say.. :) I was speaking of the WHOLE embodiment of the Cross ALL that is means
 

Anto9us

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Crucifixes with the body of Christ still on the Cross upset me -- cuz He's not on the Cross anymore.

Even the popular phrase WWJD - What Would Jesus Do -- kinda bugs me, cuz it connotes His ABSENCE.

He is not absent.
 

JLB

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So, we are in agreement that the abomination that makes desolate referenced by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse from Daniel 12:11-12 is NOT the temple destruction.

When did the daily sacrifice end? or rather when was it taken away?
We are in agreement that the abomination of desolation that Jesus referred to in the Olivet Discourse is a reference to Daniel 9:27 as well as Daniel 12:11-12

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:26-27


Notice that the city and sanctuary are destroyed in verse 26, which is a reference to the events of 70 AD.




JLB
 

JLB

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No, not worried. It's just that the precise imagery of "stand with his feet on the mt of olives" led to a major breakthrough for me;

I realized that, to Zechariah

1. God did not physically have feet
2. The Messiah he was expecting was not conceived as "God Incarnate"

and therefore it is unsound theology to say "the bible says JESUS' feet will crack the Mt of Olives in two"

I see, so it's your testimony that Zechariah 14 and it's language and context does not refer to Jesus Christ.


  • Please tell us which Lord these verse's are referring to if not The Lord Jesus Christ.
  • Please tell us who this Lord is, that will come with His saints, if not the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • Please tell us who this Lord is, if not the Lord Jesus Christ, that is the King over all the earth, Who will be worshiped from His throne by all nations.
  • Please tell us who the name of the Lord God is, if not the Lord Jesus.

These verse's from Zechariah 14:

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,

As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You
.

It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.


And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.


16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.




JLB
 

JLB

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1. God did not physically have feet
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel.
4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.”
5 And I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head.”
So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the Lord stood by.
Zechariah 3:1-6

Do you know who the Angel of the Lord is a reference to?



JLB
 

JLB

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You and JLB seem to be in agreement on it, ezrider, I maintain that Jesus references the Abomination of Desolation in the Great Eschatological Discourse, that He refers to it in a way that it will be like what Daniel referred to/prophesied about -- when Antiochus IV Epiphanes slew a pig on the altar and other abominations -- that the Abomination in 70 AD was the Roman banners in the Temple and their desecration of it

No sense in Jesus tellin people to look for a PAST AoD - another one was comin'
Yes agreed. Antiochus IV Epiphanes slew a pig on the altar and his other abominations were in the past, not future to the Olivet Discourse.


Where did Daniel prophesy about a pig being slain on the altar?


The Olivet Discourse is about His coming and the end of the age, not the events of 70 AD.


Please point to the scripture in the Olivet discourse that begins with Jesus answering the question of the disciples as he was seated on the mount of Olives, as verse 3 describes, and verse 4 is when He began His discourse.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: ...“Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


The context of the opening statement references His coming and the end of the age.

  • Take heed that no one deceives you.For many will come in My name saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many...
Jesus makes a reference to "His coming" teaching them that just before His coming, many will claim to be Him and decive people.

  • And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Jesus refers to events that will be leading up to the end, but the end is not yet.


In fact the language through the verses which show His coming is all about the signs that will take place just before His coming.


The AOD is the main one because it is the coming of the Lord that destroys the false Christ who perpetrates the AOD in the Temple, as he claims to be God.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God...8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The destruction of the false messiah [AKA antichrist: Christ = Messiah] is accomplished by the brightness of His coming, which obvoiusly means the false messiah will be alive when Jesus returns with His saints.

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:15-31

Jesus coming with His saints from heaven, just as Zechariah foretold.

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

Zechariah 14:4-5



JLB
 
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reba

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What scripture says there is more then one abomination of desolation ? off to search...
 

reba

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Crucifixes with the body of Christ still on the Cross upset me -- cuz He's not on the Cross anymore.

Even the popular phrase WWJD - What Would Jesus Do -- kinda bugs me, cuz it connotes His ABSENCE.

He is not absent.
My sister had taken her young granddaughters to Sunday School... A bit later she went to mass with her D-i-L ....Little Coleen started crying sobbing .. Get my Jesus down ...

Lots of people died on those crosses only our King arose :sohappy
 

JLB

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What scripture says there is more then one abomination of desolation ? off to search...
I don't know of any other AOD, that's in scripture, just the one associated with His coming and the resurrection/rapture, as well as the destruction of the antichrist,

However, there were other abominations committed throughout history, of which Antiochus IV Epiphanes committed some in the Temple.


JLB
 
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JLB Not going to bite on the antichrist statement..

I will ask you this and will respond if you respond directly
Do you believe, think or agree etc. the Temple was distroyed in 70 ad or about that time.
IF you do...do you think ,believe etc, that God had anything to with it.
IF you dont think He did can you explain why you think He didn't
No tricks just trying to understand your thinking ..
 

JLB

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Do you believe, think or agree etc. the Temple was distroyed in 70 ad or about that time.

Yes ma'am.

IF you do...do you think ,believe etc, that God had anything to with it.
I believe God was involved in the building and destruction of all the Temples beginning with the one Solomon built, through the one that is about to be rebuilt.


JLB
 

JLB

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JLB Not going to bite on the antichrist statement..

I will ask you this and will respond if you respond directly
Do you believe, think or agree etc. the Temple was distroyed in 70 ad or about that time.
IF you do...do you think ,believe etc, that God had anything to with it.
IF you dont think He did can you explain why you think He didn't
No tricks just trying to understand your thinking ..
Do you believe/understand that the resurrection/rapture is one event that takes place at His coming?
Do you believe the coming of the Lord was in 70 AD?
Do you believe the resurrection/rapture is past?



JLB
 
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Thanks JLB,
after all the time you and i have battled i could not remember what you had said in the past.. :)