The Jews and their denial of Christ as Messiah

[turnorburn]

Sometimes i think we'd like to say more to people, we think "I'll tell them more the next time" Only to find that sometime may never come, at least i planted a seed..

tob

 

[jasonc]

Sometimes i think we'd like to say more to people, we think "I'll tell them more the next time" Only to find that sometime may never come, at least i planted a seed..

tob

jews are sensitive lot. if she said or I knew by name if she was Ashkenazim I would go from there and talk about the torah and seque into jesus.

 

[Blake]

The body of Christ is the New Israel.

 

[jasonc]

The body of Christ is the New Israel.

the body of Christ is "isreal" I believe that is in galatians 3.

 

[turnorburn]

I'm thinking with her it was what she needed to hear, that Jesus was alive, and it was him that told me to purchase her wares.. the look on her face spoke volumes.. There was something else that happened in that mall but I'd be derailing this thread to tell it..

tob

 

[jasonc]

I'm thinking with her it was what she needed to hear, that Jesus was alive, and it was him that told me to purchase her wares.. the look on her face spoke volumes.. There was something else that happened in that mall but I'd be derailing this thread to tell it..

tob

ok, I have to be cautious around my kin with that. I don't mind talking about the torah at all. I also learn something on that. I would have to be very wise and knowledgable with that around them.

 

[turnorburn]

We serve a living God my friend, how does that tune go... Oh He Walks with me and He talks to me and He tells me I'm his own. Jesus says we wouldn't be a popular bunch, our witness is for their good not ours..

tob

 

[jasonc]

the jw are a threat to others but not me, with jews I have to really be studied up on the torah or they will either be insulted by stupid statements or mock. sometimes being truthfull will do that but well ignorant statements Christians often say are:

don't you have to offer animals today?
oh the torah its not applicable to the Christian, jesus changed the torah
calling the torah the law, which few jews actually call the commands of moses the law these days.


that said there is a way that TOG says it that does get the point across to them. I use what the messianic jews say and add the caveat of romans 14 and acts 15. they might still see a problem with that but they cant call what im saying if they are honest off nor ignorant. a jew will never say the torah has been changed.

 

[Malachi]

the body of Christ is "isreal" I believe that is in galatians 3.

It is in Galatians 6:16 that Paul pronouces his benediction upon the "Israel of God". This phrase should be taken in the context of all Scripture. That the Body of Christ would comprise both Jews and Gentiles was a "mystery" revealed through the apostle Paul. This is the "Israel of God" today -- the Church. As long as God is building His Church on earth, this will apply.

However, once the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body) is removed at the Rapture, God will resume His dealings with the nation of Israel and the land of Israel as noted in Romans chapters 9-11, and throughout the Old Testament. The promises made of Abraham, Isaac, and David will be fulfilled on this earth.

 

[jasonc]

It is in Galatians 6:16 that Paul pronouces his benediction upon the "Israel of God". This phrase should be taken in the context of all Scripture. That the Body of Christ would comprise both Jews and Gentiles was a "mystery" revealed through the apostle Paul. This is the "Israel of God" today -- the Church. As long as God is building His Church on earth, this will apply.

However, once the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body) is removed at the Rapture, God will resume His dealings with the nation of Israel and the land of Israel as noted in Romans chapters 9-11, and throughout the Old Testament. The promises made of Abraham, Isaac, and David will be fulfilled on this earth.

im not a futurist that I mistaken call ONLY those in isreal isreal. but what would I know, im not jewish. I don't have the lineage that proves my descent from isreal.

I counter with, if a jew is saved today or in the millennium what exactly is the difference if both are messianic jews or not.
is a jew any less if he isn't in isreal and is saved?
if the rapture were to occur today. then most jews in isreal compared to the world would be less then 1/3 of the total population. god didn't die for land , he died for people. if isreal repeants then what exactly are they now? believed and saved jews that must be doing what?
shabat?
mosaic law offerings to include peshac, sukhot,yom kippur, and rosh hoshanna?
or about these?
the blood, the atonement, baptism and also the holy spirit per acts 2, and also communion

if the later then that isreal nothing but a type of church. statistically the isreal per the millennium is not even 10% of the world's population. and what will the Hebrew be telling the world? moses? or jesus?

 

[jasonc]

food for thought and I have heard and met men that teach this.

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/e...ament-sacrificial-system-by-loraine-boettner/

 

[TOG]

that said there is a way that TOG says it that does get the point across to them.

I've never actually witnessed to a jew. The only Jew I've ever known is a woman I only met just over a week ago, and she's already a believer in Messiah. It's always fun to know I'm doing something right. What is it that I say that would get the point across?

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

I've never actually witnessed to a jew. The only Jew I've ever known is a woman I only met just over a week ago, and she's already a believer in Messiah. It's always fun to know I'm doing something right. What is it that I say that would get the point across?

The TOG​

You views of the law that is still in effect, ie the kosher laws, and also how you would say most likely that Jesus is the torah incarnate. He also didn't violate the torah and didn't come to negate the torah but to correct how the torah was done. ie like a rabbi would amongst each other. ie hillel v shimei

 

[Malachi]

I counter with, if a jew is saved today or in the millennium what exactly is the difference if both are messianic jews or not. is a jew any less if he isn't in isreal and is saved?

Jason,

Today we are living in the "Church age" and God is making no distinction between saved Jews and saved Gentiles. He is placing them all in one Body -- the Church of Christ. The problem with Messianic Jews is that they fail to understand that they cannot separate themselves from Gentiles Christians today (as most do). God sees the Church today as "the Israel of God" -- a spiritual entity, and men should see this too.

if the rapture were to occur today. then most jews in isreal compared to the world would be less then 1/3 of the total population. god didn't die for land , he died for people. if isreal repeants then what exactly are they now?

If the Rapture would occur today only saved Jews and saved Gentiles would be "caught up" into the air. If all of Israel would repent today and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, all Israel would be raptured. But we know that will not happen.

Christ did not die for the land, but God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants. God always keeps His promises, therefore the Kingdom of Israel on earth will be redeemed and restored by Christ.

believed and saved jews that must be doing what? shabat?
mosaic law offerings to include peshac, sukhot,yom kippur, and rosh hoshanna? or about these? the blood, the atonement,...

Believing and saved Jews must understand that everything under the Law of Moses (as above) is now null and void. Christ fulfilled all the sacrifices, and He also became the Pesach (Passover Lamb). Therefore they must simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

baptism and also the holy spirit per acts 2, and also communion

Christian water baptism and the Lord's Supper are necessary for obedience. The Holy Spirit is given to every believer as the Gift of God when they are saved.

if the later then that isreal nothing but a type of church. statistically the isreal per the millennium is not even 10% of the world's population. and what will the Hebrew be telling the world? moses? or jesus?

Redeemed and restored Israel will occupy the land from the river Nile (Egypt) to the river Euphrates (Iraq). There will be very large numbers of "the seed of Abraham" during the Millenium (and beyond). And the Hebrews will tell the world that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[jasonc]

Jason,

Today we are living in the "Church age" and God is making no distinction between saved Jews and saved Gentiles. He is placing them all in one Body -- the Church of Christ. The problem with Messianic Jews is that they fail to understand that they cannot separate themselves from Gentiles Christians today (as most do). God sees the Church today as "the Israel of God" -- a spiritual entity, and men should see this too.



If the Rapture would occur today only saved Jews and saved Gentiles would be "caught up" into the air. If all of Israel would repent today and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, all Israel would be raptured. But we know that will not happen.

Christ did not die for the land, but God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants. God always keeps His promises, therefore the Kingdom of Israel on earth will be redeemed and restored by Christ.



Believing and saved Jews must understand that everything under the Law of Moses (as above) is now null and void. Christ fulfilled all the sacrifices, and He also became the Pesach (Passover Lamb). Therefore they must simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.



Christian water baptism and the Lord's Supper are necessary for obedience. The Holy Spirit is given to every believer as the Gift of God when they are saved.



Redeemed and restored Israel will occupy the land from the river Nile (Egypt) to the river Euphrates (Iraq). There will be very large numbers of "the seed of Abraham" during the Millenium (and beyond). And the Hebrews will tell the world that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords.

ok.
1) if god says to Isreal do this and its forever why then per peter is the world destroyed? kinda hard to dwell in a promised land without the sea!
2) what is the difference if I tell the world NOW being a Hebrew that jesus is lord and king of kings and those Hebrews. so its not a church then on the earth? since when is there a mandate that a Hebrew must live in isreal at all times? king david took all the way up to the eupharates and under him and Solomon he had Hebrews in outposts there and that was under tribute.

3)how exactly would this nation with its jews simply be gone. those jews here would exodus back to isreal? for what reason?

 

[reba]

getting close to end times talk guys please stay on topic...

 

[Malachi]

ok.
1) if god says to Isreal do this and its forever why then per peter is the world destroyed?

Yes Peter has prophesied that this earth will be burned up, but then there will be a "new heavens and a new earth". The Lord Jesus Christ will establish a righteous kingdom of Israel on this "new earth" and all the tribes will have their designated lands as prophesied in the OT.

3)how exactly would this nation with its jews simply be gone. those jews here would exodus back to isreal? for what reason?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean, but it is God and Christ who will brings back all the tribes to Israel and settle them there. "For what reason?" So that God's promises to Abraham are fulfilled. When there is a regenerated, renewed and restored Israel, all the nations of this earth will come to Jerusalem to worship the King. The New Jerusalem from Heaven will hover over the Jerusalem on earth and God will be the Light of both, since there will be no sun or moon.