Bible Study The Judgement of Christ

[ezra]

Where does it say in scripture the white throne judgement and the bema seat judgement of Christ are at different times?

where does it say the lost will stand in judgment with the lost thus it is separate .so its your opinion that the lost will be at the bema judgment seat

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

separate judgments .....your missing the point and im wasting my time

 

[for_his_glory]

then where am i wrong ? does not the same spirit guide me?

One is only in error of following doctrines of men who teaches traditional doctrines of their church and not that of the doctrines of Christ within the full context of what is already written. I errored in the same way many years ago believing everything that came from the pulpit until I learned to study the full context of scripture that I had missed as the Holy Spirit guided me to them. I have no idea of your study habits or your relationship with the Holy Spirit. In many things you and I agree with and many things we do not, none the less we are ever learning coming into all truths as the Holy Spirit teaches us.

 

[for_his_glory]

where does it say the lost will stand in judgment with the lost thus it is separate .so its your opinion that the lost will be at the bema judgment seat separate judgments .....your missing the point and im wasting my time

I already answered this, but yet you give me no answer to my question to you.
I will ask it again, Where does it say in scripture the white throne judgement and the bema seat judgement of Christ are at different times?

 

[ezra]

learned to study the full context of scripture that I had missed as the Holy Spirit guided me to them. I have no idea of your study habits or your relationship with the Holy Spirit. In many things you and I agree with and many things we do not, none the less we are ever learning coming into all truths as the Holy Spirit teaches us.

i study it out from every angle .and your right on one thing

I have no idea of your study habits or your relationship with the Holy Spirit

In many things you and I agree with and many things we do not,

that is how i operate i do not follow no one certain person in teaching ..i have a good friend i talk to on the cell on my way to work.he drives truck and pastor. we talk shop /church many mornings he knows i dont agree with him . i tell him but a good discussion can bring much out , if you see a crowd going the other direction and you see one man going the opposite . i follow the one

 

[for_his_glory]

separate judgments .....your missing the point and im wasting my time

Yes, it is separate judgements as the sheep on on His right hand and the goats on His left as the books are opened at the great white throne judgement.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[ezra]

I already answered this, but yet you give me no answer to my question to you.
I will ask it again, Where does it say in scripture the white throne judgement and the bema seat judgement of Christ are at different times?

i said they are separate..i will not stand in judgement with the Lost

 

[Jim Parker]

bet with all your education and degrees you have never been wrong

HAH!! That's a laugh! What I learned from getting all those degrees was that I should have learned a trade!

the white throne judgement and the bema seat judgement are not the same

The word " bema" is a transliteration of the Greek word "βῆμα" (the root for the actual word found in scripture: "βήματος" {bematos})
The word means "judgement seat." In Mat 25, the glorious throne on which Jesus sits is a "judgment seat" just as the "White Throne" of Revelation is a "judgment seat."
And how will the judgment be carried out?
At Matthew 25:31-46, the righteous and the wicked will be judged according to their works. The wicked are sent to hell. The righteous inherit the kingdom of God.
At Revelation 20:11-13 the righteous and the wicked will be judged according to their works. The wicked were cast into the lake of fire with hell. The righteous got eternal life.
Those are two reports of the same event.

 

[ezra]

HAH!! That's a laugh! What I learned from getting all those degrees was that I should have learned a trade!

The word " bema" is a transliteration of the Greek word "βῆμα" (the root for the actual word found in scripture: "βήματος" {bematos})
The word means "judgement seat." In Mat 25, the glorious throne on which Jesus sits is a "judgment seat" just as the "White Throne" of Revelation is a "judgment seat."
And how will the judgment be carried out?
At Matthew 25:31-46, the righteous and the wicked will be judged according to their works. The wicked are sent to hell. The righteous inherit the kingdom of God.
At Revelation 20:11-13 the righteous and the wicked will be judged according to their works. The wicked were cast into the lake of fire with hell. The righteous got eternal life.
Those are two reports of the same event.

this uneducated guy still stands the word separate and i am well aware of what the bema and white throne judgment ARE ..you just proved my point separate . you see this line one person hears depart from me the next one hears enter in all the same time... not going to happen

 

[Jim Parker]

Those are His people standing before His throne, not a mix of unbelievers and believers.

I do not agree.
Mat 25:31-32a When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him,...
"All the nations" is everybody.

Here is the context of Matthew 25:31-46
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
Matthew 25:14

That verse speaks of what the kingdom of heaven is like.
Vs. 31-46 speaks of how the judgment of mankind will be carries out.
In the judgment, only the righteous inherit the kingdom; the wicked are excluded from the kingdom and, therefore, cannot be an example of what the kingdom of heaven will be like.

 

[tdidymas]

I'm not trying to convince anyone

Please at least be intellectually honest. Yes, you are trying to convince people, or you would not be posting in this forum!

and I have no teachers other than the Holy Spirit and the full context of scripture.

Everyone claims to have the Holy Spirit as their teacher. Besides that, I know that you do have teachers, as I have read preterist materials such as the book "Eschatology of Victory". Every single eschatological futures construct breaks down at some point, and requires the teacher to take verses out of context and make them mean something that doesn't make sense according to the context of it. I'm simply asking you to point to the extrabiblical materials you have read and think are interpreting the Bible correctly. Or, I'm asking you to show how you come to your conclusions by going through the hermeneutical process. If you can't do this, and pass it off by claiming Holy Spirit teaching, then this is where we part our ways.

It's all God's timing even down to the most minut second. Per those other scriptures I gave about numbering things I believe 1000 years to not be literal.

I just don't see how the verses you quoted prove anything about whether the "1000 years" is literal or not. What I see is that you have an agenda about your interpretation, and trying to work around a difficult passage that doesn't support your idea by passing it off as "not literal." But my question stands, what's the reason for the exercise? Why does Rev. 20 actually say "1000 years" and that, several times.

Jesus says no one knows the day or the hour of His return, but has given us signs to watch for His coming in the clouds. I already explained the chronological of events that will take place beginning with Rev 1-:11 through that of Rev 20 with the great white throne judgement.

I saw that you said it, but without adequate explanation.

In all reality what would be the purpose of chaining Satan for a literal 1000 years?

I guess to prove that man is sinful on his own, and doesn't need Satan to disobey God, and still needs to be ruled with a rod of iron.

Will God wait another literal 1000 years before the great white throne judgement after all, both saints and sinners, have been raised from the grave on the last day when Christ returns?

I don't know, it's why I'm asking questions.

I believe what many are missing is that everything from Rev 19:11 through Rev 20 is done on the last day as I have already explained this.

I can see that you say this, but without any adequate explanation whatsoever. I just don't see how anyone can reasonably interpret the entire chapter of Rev. 20 as being one single day. Unless your "last day" is not a single day?
TD

 

[JLB]

Again, I never said it was a mix,

By saying not mixed I mean that

I do not agree.
Mat 25:31-32a When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him,...
"All the nations" is everybody.

Jesus is speaking to His disciples privately.

All the “nations” is a reference to Gentiles who will be included with the Jews on this day, which at the time was unheard of since Gentiles were still considered unclean.

Later Peter would need to be reminded.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Jesus is speaking to His disciples privately.

Yes. He was speaking about the judgment.

All the “nations” is a reference to Gentiles who will be included with the Jews on this day, which at the time was unheard of since Gentiles were still considered unclean.

Or it could mean exactly what it says; "all the nations" meaning; "every nation." (πάντα τὰ ἔθνη - every ethnicity, every family, clan, nation)

 

[Jim Parker]

Everyone claims to have the Holy Spirit as their teacher.

If everyone who claims to be taught by the Holy Spirit is, in fact, really taught by the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is very confused.

 

[ezra]

If everyone who claims to be taught by the Holy Spirit is, in fact, really taught by the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is very confused.

hmmmm

 

[jasonc]

If everyone who claims to be taught by the Holy Spirit is, in fact, really taught by the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is very confused.

all so often that line is used when the bible doesn't even support that. I have been guilty. I was thinking of this the other day and it makes sense what you say as it says ONE judgement and ONE resurrection.

 

[ezra]

it makes sense what you say as it says ONE judgement and ONE resurrection.

see that depends on who answers i find 2 resurrections and 2 judgement lost/ saved

 

[Jim Parker]

see that depends on who answers i find 2 resurrections and 2 judgement lost/ saved

Ah! Yes! 2 resurrections!
The first resurrection is when a believer is baptized into Jesus' death and buried with Him through baptism into death and then, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so the believer also will walk in newness of life. (Ro 6:3-4) That's the first resurrection when the believer is united with Christ in His death; buried with Him in baptism, and born again to new life in Christ.

The second resurrection is the general resurrection that happens when Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead. Then the sea will give up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades will deliver up the dead who were in them. And they will be judged, each one according to his works. (Rev 20:13)

 

[ezra]

Ah! Yes! 2 resurrections!
The first resurrection is when a believer is baptized into Jesus' death and buried with Him through baptism into death and then, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so the believer also will walk in newness of life. (Ro 6:3-4) That's the first resurrection when the believer is united with Christ in His death; buried with Him in baptism, and born again to new life in Christ.

The second resurrection is the general resurrection that happens when Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead. Then the sea will give up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades will deliver up the dead who were in them. And they will be judged, each one according to his works. (Rev 20:13)

rom 6 is not the first res. and no i dont agree with you

 

[Jim Parker]

rom 6 is not the first res. and no i dont agree with you

At Romans 6 Paul (not me, Paul) said that we are united with Christ in His death;
that we are buried with Him in baptism, and
that we rise again from the death to new life in Christ.

Dying, being buried, and then raising from death to new life is a RESURRECTION.

 

[JLB]

Or it could mean exactly what it says; "all the nations" meaning; "every nation." (πάντα τὰ ἔθνη - every ethnicity, every family, clan, nation)

Every ethnic group; Not just Jews.


It’s clear all who are before Him are His servants.

Not the world of unbelievers together with His people.


All knew He was Lord.

All were expected to express love as His people.

The context is clear.


JLB