The Law: Fulfilled or Abolished?

[JLB]

Can't you see that what you're arguing for in regard to the law is the WAY of the law of Moses being added, not the requirements of the law of Moses themselves.

The Bible says we fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses through our faith (Romans 13:9-10 NASB), but the church teaches that we abolish the requirements of the law of Moses by our faith. Even Jesus said he came to fulfill the law of Moses, not abolish it. So why do we teach believers that the law was abolished?

I don't think the church knows what it means to be 'under the law'. It surely doesn't mean to be obligated to it's moral requirements, because we most certainly are. You can only be 'under the law' if your flesh is still alive. Crucified people aren't under the law anymore. And because they're not under the law anymore they can now fulfill the requirements of the law. Sound like double talk? To a church indoctrinated by an erroneous understanding of law, yes. But to those who read their Bible, it makes perfect sense.

Not being under the law DOESN'T mean you don't have to do what it commands the people of God to do. It means you're not under the power of the law to hold you bound to your sin nature, like a woman married to a husband, the law of Moses acting as the marriage license that keeps you in that relationship between you and sinful flesh. We have been set free from the law in that regard. (Romans 7:1-6 NASB)

The verse we are discussing is not about us, and our "way" of keeping the requirements of the Law.

The elements of this scripture contain:

- the law

- the Seed

The law was added.

Until the Seed should come.

Either we conclude the law is still in effect or it is not.

By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating the the is a part of something else.

The law is a part, not the whole.

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law that was added to to something else is temporary.

That is basically all there is to discuss.

Please comment honestly brother.

JLB

The WAY of the written word is what was added temporarily. It's absurd, even dishonest, to say 'don't steal, and 'don't covet' were added and then taken away because they were temporary (even you, JLB, acknowlege that those requirements were known before Moses).

Everybody who thinks 'do not commit adultery' was taken away raise your hand. If you agree that it was NOT taken away explain what was taken away.

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here in Galatians 3:19.

Based on this scripture, can you see the very real evidence that the law was added temporarily until the Messiah established the new covenant.


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

So that is why John was told not to bow down to him because the First Great Eternal Commandment was FINISHED at the Cross??? I do not BELIEVE any such tale!

Rev. 22
[8] And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
[9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

AND:

Matt. 22
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

Nor do any who LOVE our Lord, who understand these Bible texts.

--Elijah

 

[TOG]

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here

I'm a little confused. Maybe you can help me. You say that the commandment "Thou shallt not kill" is still valid, because it's part of God's law, but "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy" has been done away with, since it's part of the law of Moses. But they're both in the 10 commandments. Can you tell me how to tell the difference?

The TOG
​

 

[farouk]

The context of Galatians is 'justification'--the perfection of justification. No righteous work makes a person perfectly just before God. That's what he's addressing in Galatians, not law keeping itself.

It would be impossible for Paul to argue against the law keeping he himself does except when law keeping is for the purpose of justification. That law keeping he would argue against--and does. But not any and all law keeping. That would make him a really big hypocrite.

Galatians 2.19.

I'm dead to the law.

If you are in Christ you are dead to the law's authority to hold you fast in the power of the sin nature. That's what you have been set free from. You are not dead to the requirements of the law. They get upheld, not abolished, by your faith in Christ. But the church has erroneously understood 'dead to the law' to mean 'I don't have to keep the law anymore'. I don't blame the flock. I blame the godless, misguided, spiritless leadership that saddled the church with that ridiculous understanding.

It doesn't say dead to the power of sin's nature; it says dead to the law. And I choose not to use derogatory language about those who may differ on this point.

 

[JLB]

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here

I'm a little confused. Maybe you can help me. You say that the commandment "Thou shallt not kill" is still valid, because it's part of God's law, but "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy" has been done away with, since it's part of the law of Moses. But they're both in the 10 commandments. Can you tell me how to tell the difference?

The TOG
​

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Either we conclude the law is still in effect or it is not.

The requirements of the law are still in effect. Jesus plainly said he did NOT come to abolish them, he came to fulfill them. Faith FULFILLS the requirements of the law, not abolishes them. Our faith in Christ fulfills the ceremonial law. Our faith in Christ working through love fulfills the moral law. Both together FULFILL the law of Moses, not abolishes it. But somewhere along the line the church started saying the law is abolished in Christ, in clear defiance of plainly worded scripture.

What is no longer in effect is the WAY of the law--mere written words, and their power to condemn you and keep you in your sins, not liberate you from violations of the law.

"6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NIV)

"28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:28,31 NIV)

Please do not keep throwing around other scriptures.

I ask you to honestly answer these questions about this scripture.

The verse we are discussing is not about us, and our "way" of keeping the requirements of the Law.

The elements of this scripture contain:

- the law of Moses

- the Seed

The law was added.

Until the Seed should come.

By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law of Moses is a part of something else. Yes or No?

The law of Moses is a part, not the whole. Yes or No?

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law that was added to something else temporarily.

That is basically all there is to discuss.

Please comment honestly brother.


JLB

 

[TOG]

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here

I'm a little confused. Maybe you can help me. You say that the commandment "Thou shallt not kill" is still valid, because it's part of God's law, but "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy" has been done away with, since it's part of the law of Moses. But they're both in the 10 commandments. Can you tell me how to tell the difference?

The TOG
​

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

But that doesn't tell me how to tell the difference. People tell me either that I don't need to or that I shouldn't obey certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, the annual festivals or the dietary laws, but when I read these commandments in the Bible, they are all part of the same law that prohibits murder and rape and tells us to honor our parents. How can I tell whether any given commandment is part of the law of Moses or the law of God? How do I know whether I should obey a given commandment or not?

The TOG
​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The WAY of the written word is what was added temporarily. It's absurd, even dishonest, to say 'don't steal, and 'don't covet' were added and then taken away because they were temporary (even you, JLB, acknowlege that those requirements were known before Moses).

Everybody who thinks 'do not commit adultery' was taken away raise your hand. If you agree that it was NOT taken away explain what was taken away.

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here in Galatians 3:19.

Based on this scripture, can you see the very real evidence that the law was added temporarily until the Messiah established the new covenant.


JLB

Yes, I see the WAY of the law of Moses was added until the appearance of Christ.

The condemnation of the law was added to already sinful mankind to increase and fortify that condemnation and make it legally official before all the universe. In Christ, the condemnation of the law--the law of sin and death--ends, because the sinful nature that brings the condemnation of the law has been put to death (that is for those who believe in Christ and walk by the Spirit).

The requirements of the law did not cease when Christ appeared. In fact, now that Christ has appeared, and sin finished for all time through Him, we UPHOLD the law, not abolish it! We now bear fruit to God in accordance with the requirements of the law, not in violation of the law. Requirements summed up in the law 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The context of Galatians is 'justification'--the perfection of justification. No righteous work makes a person perfectly just before God. That's what he's addressing in Galatians, not law keeping itself.

It would be impossible for Paul to argue against the law keeping he himself does except when law keeping is for the purpose of justification. That law keeping he would argue against--and does. But not any and all law keeping. That would make him a really big hypocrite.

Galatians 2.19.

I'm dead to the law.

If you are in Christ you are dead to the law's authority to hold you fast in the power of the sin nature. That's what you have been set free from. You are not dead to the requirements of the law. They get upheld, not abolished, by your faith in Christ. But the church has erroneously understood 'dead to the law' to mean 'I don't have to keep the law anymore'. I don't blame the flock. I blame the godless, misguided, spiritless leadership that saddled the church with that ridiculous understanding.

It doesn't say dead to the power of sin's nature; it says dead to the law. And I choose not to use derogatory language about those who may differ on this point.

Read carefully. You are dead to the law because sin is dead in you. Sin in you (that is, you and sin in marital union) is what gives the law the power to condemn you. In fact, the law acts like a marriage license that keeps you in marital union with sin (Romans 7:1-6 NASB).

But, take away 'husband' sin...you know...put him to death...and the law no longer has the authority to demand you stay in marital obedience and submission--like a marriage license--to that now deceased 'husband' sinful flesh (for marriage ends at death). And now that you no longer have to obey the marital demands of sinful flesh (because he died), the law can no longer condemn you. That is how you 'died to the law'. The requirements of the law didn't die, your old sin nature did, and with it, the law's power to keep you in it and condemn you.

Being in union with new husband Christ, we now stay in marital obedience and submission to Him--the Spirit being the power and authority that keeps us in obedient relationship to Him so that we uphold the requirements of the law, not abolish them. The moral requirements are upheld literally, by us, by our faith in Christ when we walk in the Spirit (faith working through love--Galatians 5:6), while the ceremonial requirements are upheld one time, for all time, for all people (who believe) by our faith in the work of Christ. The law did not 'go away'. Sin, and the resulting condemnation of the law for sin, is what went away. That is what we are no longer under.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please do not keep throwing around other scriptures.

I ask you to honestly answer these questions about this scripture.

The verse we are discussing is not about us, and our "way" of keeping the requirements of the Law.

The elements of this scripture contain:

- the law of Moses

- the Seed

The law was added.

Until the Seed should come.

By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law of Moses is a part of something else. Yes or No?

Yes. The official, legal condemnation of written law was added.

The law of Moses is a part, not the whole. Yes or No?

Part of what? Be specific.

It is part of the whole revelation of God's righteousness, and his mercy and grace. Perhaps the whole revelation of his justice. That's why it is the condemnation of mankind, not his salvation.

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law that was added to something else temporarily.

That is basically all there is to discuss.

Please comment honestly brother.


JLB

I explained what is temporary about the law of Moses:

The legal condemnation of the law.

Various literal requirements representing eternal principles of atonement, cleanliness, and fellowship.

The thinking that a man is justified by doing righteous work.


What your doctrine can't explain is how 'do not murder', 'do not steal', etc. are somehow temporary additions, parts of a whole, that went away, because we all know they did NOT go away.

The WAY of written words and trying to serve God in letter only explains it (point 3 above) but you apparently don't agree that it is in that sense that those were temporary and went away when Christ appeared.

 

[JLB]

Of course God's kingdom laws are eternal.

However we are discussing the law of Moses here

I'm a little confused. Maybe you can help me. You say that the commandment "Thou shallt not kill" is still valid, because it's part of God's law, but "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy" has been done away with, since it's part of the law of Moses. But they're both in the 10 commandments. Can you tell me how to tell the difference?

The TOG
​

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

But that doesn't tell me how to tell the difference. People tell me either that I don't need to or that I shouldn't obey certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, the annual festivals or the dietary laws, but when I read these commandments in the Bible, they are all part of the same law that prohibits murder and rape and tells us to honor our parents. How can I tell whether any given commandment is part of the law of Moses or the law of God? How do I know whether I should obey a given commandment or not?

The TOG
​

If you are sincere about this. Spend some time before the Lord. Pray in the spirit and worship the Lord. Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.

Try learning for Him for a season.

That is how Abraham lived.

That is how John the baptist lived.

That is how Moses lived.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes. The official, legal condemnation of written law was added.

Those are your words Brother, not what the scripture says, at all.

The law was added. Plain and simple.

Not parts of the law. Not the way the law should be kept.

THE LAW.

Not the first five books of the bible.

The law of Moses.

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--


10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

Here is that phrase again -

fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.


11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.

The covenant and the law of Moses has changed. It has been exchanged for the new covenant.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Part of what? Be specific.

Let's look at the context.

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19

The law of Moses was added to the Covenant that The Lord [Jesus] made with Abraham, but had to become flesh to "confirm" His part of the Blood letting.

Abraham's part was Circumcision.

We are grafted into that covenant in Christ.

Only The New [fresh] Covenant is now confirmed with the blood of Jesus and is based on better promises, meaning we have the Holy Spirit and all the gifts of the Spirit.

We have the ability to know God and walk with God as Abraham did.

We have the mind of Christ.

We have God's Kingdom Law written by God Himself in our mind.

We are one with God's only begotten Son, and therefore we are sons and joint heirs with Him.

The Law was added until the Seed should come.

He has come, and fulfilled all the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms.


More that a jot or tittle has disappear from the Law.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What your doctrine can't explain is how 'do not murder', 'do not steal', etc. are somehow temporary additions, parts of a whole, that went away, because we all know they did NOT go away.

These are God's Kingdom Laws that are Eternal, are were in the Earth long before the Law of Moses.

Abraham walked in these laws.

Yes, some of the Laws were seen, made manifest, written down for the first time, in the law of Moses.

These Laws were given to those that walked with Him, and learned from Him as Adam was called to do.

He is the tree of Life.

We are to partake of Him and learn from Him.

He is the Way, The Truth, and the Life.

The Scriptures in and of themselves without Him is partaking from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which equals RELIGION.

JESUS SAID IT THIS WAY -

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

That is why Saul of Tarsus, so full of the scriptures, and a faithful follower of Judaism, was killing Christians.

Paul on the other hand spent time before the Lord and away from Jerusalem for fourteen years, and ended up writing most of the New Testament.

1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. Galatians 2:1-2.


Moses did not have any scriptures, He wrote about Adam and creation as revealed to him directly from the Lord.

Enoch had no scriptures and walked with God.

Abraham had no scriptures, and He walked with God.

Even though we have the scriptures, they are useless without The Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us into all truth.

Moses law has vanished away, what remains is God's Eternal Kingdom Laws that were in the earth since the garden.

If you don't know what they are specifically, good, learn from Him.

Even if you keep all the "moral laws" as revealed in the Law of Moses, there is always, do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

That is an Eternal Law.


JLB

 

[TOG]

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

But that doesn't tell me how to tell the difference. People tell me either that I don't need to or that I shouldn't obey certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, the annual festivals or the dietary laws, but when I read these commandments in the Bible, they are all part of the same law that prohibits murder and rape and tells us to honor our parents. How can I tell whether any given commandment is part of the law of Moses or the law of God? How do I know whether I should obey a given commandment or not?

The TOG
​

If you are sincere about this. Spend some time before the Lord. Pray in the spirit and worship the Lord. Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.

Try learning for Him for a season.

That is how Abraham lived.

That is how John the baptist lived.

That is how Moses lived.



JLB

How do I know if it's God speaking to me or if it's just my own feelings? Don't you see the problem? If there's no way to tell from the Bible itself, then people just end up accepting the commandments that they feel are the right ones. They basicially follow the ones they want to follow and justify ignoring the rest by saying they've been done away with. Show me from the Bible how to tell the difference. If you can't do that, then you have nothing but your own feelings and understanding to base it on. I'm not willing to base my faith on my feelings.

The TOG
​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB, I know you don't realize it but what you're describing is the WAY of the law--eternal principles of sacrifice and obedience wrapped up in a very specific system of worship. That system, that WAY of worship, did end with the appearance of Christ, not the requirements served by that system.

We uphold those very same principles in the new WAY of faith in Christ, the New Covenant. The principles and requirements did not change. How they get fulfilled did. And, because the new WAY actually satisfies those requirements to God's complete and total satisfaction (when we believe and walk in the Spirit), the condemnation for not fulfilling those requirements is removed.

The end of the WAY of the law of Moses, the first covenant, is not an end of the requirements of the law of Moses. Since the NT doesn't treat 'law' (meaning 'law of Moses') as a forbidden four letter word, neither should we. But the church has chosen to believe the spiritless, misguided doctrine that entered into the church in the decades after the Apostles and came to fruition in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

The sad part is, most people reading this will only be able to hear, "Jethro is trying to put us back under the law"...oblivious to what being under the law actually means. The church is gripped by this fear that living for God will now mean he harshly and unmercifully demands obedience. If you understand the WAY of the new covenant of faith in Christ you will know this is hardly what it means to acknowledge that the requirements of the law continue in this New Covenant. The WAY those requirements are fulfilled, and what many of them look like in practice, has changed. And in the process has put an end to the condemnation of the law.

Even so, many are still thinking, "Jethro is trying to put the yoke of the law on us." It's a very stubborn indoctrination that grips the church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

But that doesn't tell me how to tell the difference. People tell me either that I don't need to or that I shouldn't obey certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, the annual festivals or the dietary laws, but when I read these commandments in the Bible, they are all part of the same law that prohibits murder and rape and tells us to honor our parents. How can I tell whether any given commandment is part of the law of Moses or the law of God? How do I know whether I should obey a given commandment or not?

The TOG
​

If you are sincere about this. Spend some time before the Lord. Pray in the spirit and worship the Lord. Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.

Try learning for Him for a season.

That is how Abraham lived.

That is how John the baptist lived.

That is how Moses lived.



JLB

How do I know if it's God speaking to me or if it's just my own feelings? Don't you see the problem? If there's no way to tell from the Bible itself, then people just end up accepting the commandments that they feel are the right ones. They basicially follow the ones they want to follow and justify ignoring the rest by saying they've been done away with. Show me from the Bible how to tell the difference. If you can't do that, then you have nothing but your own feelings and understanding to base it on. I'm not willing to base my faith on my feelings.

The TOG
​

Your conscience is what you need to obey. But conscience can be educated. Hebrews is where we learn about the end of the literal fulfillments of the ceremonial procedures required by God. What those literal requirements sought to do, but couldn't do because of the weakness and ongoing sinfulness of man, was accomplished one time, for all time through the sacrifice of Jesus. So there's no need to continue to do the literal requirements that served a purpose that no longer exists.

So, because the purpose for which the literal observances were given no longer exists, there is no debt of external, literal Mosaic worship and service remaining with God that HAS to be addressed through that old way of Mosaic worship. That purpose is served in the new WAY of ongoing faith in Jesus' sacrifice. What does continue literally, for obvious reasons, is the debt of love that we owe all people (the moral part of the law). But even that is fulfilled (by us) through faith and the Holy Spirit given to us because of Christ's sacrifice.

 

[JLB]

They were both God's Law before the law of Moses was added to the covenant.

The Sabbath as it was given before the law of Moses.

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, as written in the law of Moses with all the rules and requirements specified for the children of Israel.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Man needs a day of rest. The Sabbath was made for man.


JLB

But that doesn't tell me how to tell the difference. People tell me either that I don't need to or that I shouldn't obey certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, the annual festivals or the dietary laws, but when I read these commandments in the Bible, they are all part of the same law that prohibits murder and rape and tells us to honor our parents. How can I tell whether any given commandment is part of the law of Moses or the law of God? How do I know whether I should obey a given commandment or not?

The TOG
​

If you are sincere about this. Spend some time before the Lord. Pray in the spirit and worship the Lord. Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.

Try learning for Him for a season.

That is how Abraham lived.

That is how John the baptist lived.

That is how Moses lived.



JLB

How do I know if it's God speaking to me or if it's just my own feelings? Don't you see the problem? If there's no way to tell from the Bible itself, then people just end up accepting the commandments that they feel are the right ones. They basicially follow the ones they want to follow and justify ignoring the rest by saying they've been done away with. Show me from the Bible how to tell the difference. If you can't do that, then you have nothing but your own feelings and understanding to base it on. I'm not willing to base my faith on my feelings.

The TOG
​

Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.


Read the new testament for a while.

Read Hebrews.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The sad part is, most people reading this will only be able to hear, "Jethro is trying to put us back under the law"...

I know what you teach and what you believe.

I told you I agree with about 99 % of what you say.


What I can't understand is why you have such a fear of realizing that God can and did replace the Law of Moses with the Relationship with His as it was first intended with Adam and show with Abraham.

Where there was no system, but only a relationship as with a Father and son.

A husband and wife.


Faith come by hearing God.

Hearing God comes through relationship.



... Not like the covenant I made with them when I led them ouit...


This is what God intends.


The Law was God's grace to the children of Israel, given to them because of transgressions, so that He could continue to bless them with the covenant blessings of Abraham.

Without His blessing of the Covenant upon them, they would not be able to take the promise land away from the giants, as He had promised Abraham.

I am not saying the Law was a bad thing, I am saying they turned it into a yoke of bondage and an administration of death, by making what God intended, until the Messiah had come, into a religion whereby you must do the works of the Law to be saved.

David had a relationship with God, he didn't try to "keep the Law" in order to be saved.


Walking with God by "faith", to Love Him and obey Him is all God has ever asked any of us to do.


Before, during and after the Law.


Cyrus was anointed by God and had a relationship with Him, yet never stepped foot in Israel, or knew of the Law or kept the Law.


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

If you are sincere about this. Spend some time before the Lord. Pray in the spirit and worship the Lord. Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.

Try learning for Him for a season.

That is how Abraham lived.

That is how John the baptist lived.

That is how Moses lived.



JLB

How do I know if it's God speaking to me or if it's just my own feelings? Don't you see the problem? If there's no way to tell from the Bible itself, then people just end up accepting the commandments that they feel are the right ones. They basicially follow the ones they want to follow and justify ignoring the rest by saying they've been done away with. Show me from the Bible how to tell the difference. If you can't do that, then you have nothing but your own feelings and understanding to base it on. I'm not willing to base my faith on my feelings.

The TOG
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Spend some time with Him and ask Him to lead you and guide you into the truth.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans, especially 6,7, and 8.

Meditate on the verses that seem to stand out to you and seem significant, as you read and study.


Read the new testament for a while.

Read Hebrews.



JLB

So you ones that are posting are Led of the Holy Spirit or by MAN???

--Elijah