Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

The Lawgiver

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Jesus fulfilled the types and shadows that pointed the children of Israel to Him.


JLB
You are correct: There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? James 4:12

Just making a statement

One Lawgiver

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16
 
Last edited:
The law is the accuser.


The law is good.

The devil is the accuser.

Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Romans 7:12



Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Revelation 12:10



JLB
 
The law is good.

The devil is the accuser.

Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Romans 7:12



Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Revelation 12:10



JLB

I never said the law is not good. Of course do not murder, do not steal, and do not give false witness are moral laws. But the law is the accuser.

As Jesus said he does not accuse but Moses will accuse.

Even Paul said where there is no law there is no transgression, and he was alive without the law but when the commandment come sin spring to life and he died, and where the spirit is there is Liberty.

The law accuses. Thats why one day you are a law abiding citizen then the next day you are a criminal if you do the exact same thing. One day its illegal to do something then the law changes and its suddenly legal, or one day its legal to do something then the next day its illegal because the law said so and will accuse you otherwise. Depending on the law your a criminal or not.

Even sin was in the world before the law was given. What did Jesus do, he took away the sin of the world.
 
Last edited:
I never said the law is not good. Of course do not murder, do not steal, and do not give false witness are moral laws. But the law is the accuser.

As Jesus said he does not accuse but Moses will accuse.

Even Paul said where there is no law there is no transgression, and he was alive without the law but when the commandment come sin spring to life and he died, and where the spirit is there is Liberty.

The law accuses. Thats why one day you are a law abiding citizen then the next day you are a criminal if you do the exact same thing. One day its illegal to do something then the law changes and its suddenly legal, or one day its legal to do something then the next day its illegal because the law said so and will accuse you otherwise. Depending on the law your a criminal or not.

Even sin was in the world before the law was given. What did Jesus do, he took away the sin of the world.

I see that our thoughts accuse us or excuse us.

I also see that the Day will come when we are all judged according to our deeds.


12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:12-16


I would like to hear more about this from you, so I can be clear as to the point you are wanting to make.

There is a balance in understanding these things.

Some have taught the Ten Commandments have been done away with, and associate any obedience to the commandments as legalism.

God forbid that this is what we teach this generation, who are desperate for moral instruction.


I think we agree on this as I see your quote...

  • I never said the law is not good. Of course do not murder, do not steal, and do not give false witness are moral laws.

The part I hoping to get clarification on is this statement.

  • But the law is the accuser.


Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
John 5:45-47


Compare to:


who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:15-16

  • in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


The context of both of these writings is the Day of Judgement.




JLB
 
I see that our thoughts accuse us or excuse us.

I also see that the Day will come when we are all judged according to our deeds.


12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:12-16


I would like to hear more about this from you, so I can be clear as to the point you are wanting to make.

There is a balance in understanding these things.

Some have taught the Ten Commandments have been done away with, and associate any obedience to the commandments as legalism.

God forbid that this is what we teach this generation, who are desperate for moral instruction.


I think we agree on this as I see your quote...

  • I never said the law is not good. Of course do not murder, do not steal, and do not give false witness are moral laws.

The part I hoping to get clarification on is this statement.

  • But the law is the accuser.


Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
John 5:45-47


Compare to:


who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:15-16

  • in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


The context of both of these writings is the Day of Judgement.




JLB
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-20/
 
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-20/


This is where a good understanding of the context and message that Paul is teaching is important.

Paul just finished teaching that God will show no partiality between Jew and Gentile, when He judges each one according to their deeds, in Romans 2.

  • but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:1-11


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

  • but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.


Then after, stating this, he starts off Chapter 3 with this question, to which he answers.


What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Romans 3:1


Verse 20 should be understood in the light of this context.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; Romans 3:19-22


Paul then concludes Chapter 3 with this:

  • By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
  • Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:27-31


Another translation says it this way -

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31 NRSV

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31 NIV


Paul is careful not to alienate his Jewish audience by speaking anything negative about the law, and is comparing the principle of faith with that of the law.

In the scales of justice, Paul shows that the "weight" of the law and the "weight" of faith "uphold" each other, having the same common weight of balance.


The word used here in verse 31 for establish or uphold -


establish or uphold - Strong's G2476 - histēmi

  1. to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
    1. to bid to stand by, [set up]
      1. in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin;
      2. to place
    2. to make firm, fix establish
      1. to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
      2. to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety
      3. to establish a thing, cause it to stand
        1. to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
    3. to set or place in a balance
      1. to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
  2. to stand
    1. to stand by or near
      1. to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm
        1. of the foundation of a building
    2. to stand
      1. continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared
      2. to be of a steadfast mind
      3. of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver


Do you know what the the law of Moses and the law of faith have in common, whereby the law of faith would uphold the law?

I gave this example one time when discussing this topic:


If you took 50 20.00 dollar bills of confederate money and 50 20.00 dollar bills of of currency today and placed then on the scales of balance, would they uphold each other: IOW would they weigh the same?



JLB
 
the law pointed toward sin. paul said he wouldn't have known what sin was had it not been for the law Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? By no means! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the Law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the Law had not said, "Do not covet."

Galatians 3: …23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ,that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. since JESUS TOOK THE PENALTY for our sins on the cross , that was the payment... the ultimate victory is the Resurrection . Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the law . law said you need a sacrifice for your sins.. Jesus covered that
 
the law pointed toward sin. paul said he wouldn't have known what sin was had it not been for the law Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? By no means! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the Law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the Law had not said, "Do not covet."

Galatians 3: …23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ,that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. since JESUS TOOK THE PENALTY for our sins on the cross , that was the payment... the ultimate victory is the Resurrection . Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the law . law said you need a sacrifice for your sins.. Jesus covered that
Our Lord covered a lot of things according to his teachings, for an example: The proper Faith without works is dead: James 2:1-26
 
the law pointed toward sin.


The law pointed to Christ.

Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24


paul said he wouldn't have known what sin was had it not been for the law Romans 7:7

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Romans 7:1-7

  • Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.




JLB
 
The law pointed to Christ.
the law told us what sin was pointed to . but yes it did point to christ also Romans 7:7 gave knowledge what sin was. yes i am well aware of the other scriptures says i not sure your point but i never said law was sin i posted law told us waht sin was. only thing the Law by itself it could save count cause to refrain from sin

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c]And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
 
The law pointed to Christ.

Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24




Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Romans 7:1-7

  • Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.




JLB
These scriptures are rightly divided, thanks. II Timothy 2:15
 
they sure are even though i already had posted these scriptures ahead of time lol:oops
As touching and agreeing on any one thing, Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18:19-20

Here is just a couple of songs that I was thinking about while I was reading your post:

 
Last edited:
I see that our thoughts accuse us or excuse us.

I also see that the Day will come when we are all judged according to our deeds.


12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:12-16


I would like to hear more about this from you, so I can be clear as to the point you are wanting to make.

There is a balance in understanding these things.

Some have taught the Ten Commandments have been done away with, and associate any obedience to the commandments as legalism.

God forbid that this is what we teach this generation, who are desperate for moral instruction.


I think we agree on this as I see your quote...

  • I never said the law is not good. Of course do not murder, do not steal, and do not give false witness are moral laws.

The part I hoping to get clarification on is this statement.

  • But the law is the accuser.


Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
John 5:45-47


Compare to:


who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2:15-16

  • in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


The context of both of these writings is the Day of Judgement.




JLB

You wanted me to clarify how the law is an accuser.

If you don't do what the law says the law will accuse you and the law will give you a penalty.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top