Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

The Marriage Bed/Undefiled

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
S

saved

Guest
Today there seems to be a great deal of confusion on what marriage brings, at least when dealing with what is and is not for the marriage bed. The following link to a Christian Counselor who helps sort that out and set our hearts and minds on God and His way for the marriage bed.

http://achristiancounselor.com/oralsex.html
 
I was suprised that the author did not explain why he or she felt that oral sex was intrinsically sinful. The closest the author ever came was saying that it is like having sex with sex, but that is a silly statement in and of itself - oral sex is not sex, period. It is a form of foreplay and yes, it can cause climax, but it is not God's highest physical bond between two people which can only be held by a man and woman.

The only other argument that I heard was that fellatio/"what's the other one?" are gateway behaviors to other sinful actions - but this is as aloof as saying that coitus is a gateway behavior to fellatio. Where's the substance, where's the evidence? I see none. All I see is an assumption of sinfulness and then verses based on holiness and being against sin.

A better argument could be made...

Still, I can find many verses that call sodomy, adultery, homosexual acts, etc., sinful, but I cannot find any that declare fellatio to be sinful between a husband and wife.

BL
 
Actually the Author did explain why it was sinfull. He made it very clear as a matter of fact.
 
I must be illiterate then. Saved, could you please quote one verse the condemns oral sex? Unless you have the preconception that such acts are unholy, there is nothing in the Bible speaking against it. The only argument is "It's not natural" How come it feels so good then? Natural foreplay is the kissing of ones partner, not just on the mouth but everywhere on the body, including the genitalia. The penis fits quite well in the mouth and the tongue fits quite well in the vagina. Its as natural as vaginal intercourse is. If you feels its not, then don't do it. But you have absolutely no scriptural evidence that oral sex is wrong.
 
I found it interesting that this site uses the arguement that the mouth is for eating and is part of the digestive system, therefore, it is not for oral sex. So according to this logic, we shouldn't kiss our spouse anywhere because that's not what the mouth is for. What a silly arguement.

I don't understand all this talk about lust pertaining to oral sex. Lust is a matter of the heart. I love my husband deeply, and therefore I have intense feelings of love and passion that I wish to express in a way that God created and said was good (i.e. sex). Sexul expression, for me, is in no way about lust. It's about giving to my husband in a profound way. Why can I kiss him on the mouth and not somewhere else?

If oral sex were sinful, God would have made that clear in His Word, and He would also make it clear in our hearts if we are seeking Him. Can you tell me with certainty that I - a Christian, filled with the Holy Spirit, and seeking God in an earnest manner - must be wrong, even though the Lord has not convicted me of such. Why is there the need to define what sex is, in such an extremely rigid fashion? The Lord gives us clear instruction as to what is sexual abomination....adultery, homosexuality, etc. There are very logical reasons as to why this would be so. These things undermine the unity of His creation and His intent that one man and one woman become one forever through the covenant of marriage. The boundaries that He sets for sex are for our own protection. Oral sex does not undermine the purity of marriage.
 
I really do thank everyone who responded. I will say that I am shocked and not because I am a prude. I am full aware how far our flesh can take us since I did not become a Christian until late in life. I guess that I was shocked to find out of the seemingly little shame and loss of respect for one another. At least that is what I see. I am also aware of scripture and I think this fits today.

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
_________________
 
No problem, we're glad to respond and help...

However, a couple of questions:

1) Can you provide the scripture location for the verses you provided?
2) How do you feel this scripture applies to fellatio and/or other forms of oral sexual stimulation?

BL
 
2Timoty 3
but is does not spell out specifics. it is simply a generalization of what will be going on in the lives of people in the last days. It is trying to show that self is more important then holiness.
 
I feel that it is quite specific:

2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power.

Do you feel that practicing oral sexual stimulation intrinsically fits into one of those categories?

Do you have any [other] examples that you feel condemn oral sexual stimulation?

BL
 
If I use that logic then I might be able to justify all the things leading up to sex without actually doing the sexual act before marriage. Sort how far can I go. Well, some say as far as you want as long as you do not have literal sex. (by the way this is also going on in the church) I don't agree thta it is correct, but I cannot give scripture there either. The bible does not say to not do those things before we are married. It only says not to have sex. Sort of a President Clinton philosophy. I do not believe that God intended oral sex as part of the design. There is just something wrong there.
I believe that in the Timothy passage it makes clear that what will take place is that people will justify their activities out of personal desire rather then out of holiness or love for God. It mentions lust and the idea is that the flesh will rule instead of God.
I think that we as a people have become overwhelmed with sex and it has crept into the church. Sex is great, but if there is no limit just because we have a marriage certificate then there is no need to stop at oral. We are getting our ideas and experiences from the world, not the Lord. The bible does not deal directly with it as in spelling out positions or actions. My assumption is that it is understood. I do not think that silence is a license. I realize that some say they can do this with a clear conscience, (although I think they are stretching the truth) but it is easy to quence the Spirit and I believe that many have.
 
If I use that logic then I might be able to justify all the things leading up to sex without actually doing the sexual act before marriage.

How so? I hold to the logic that coitus is coitus, and the one thing God gave to men and women as an act of physical stimulation which no other combination can do. Thus, I hold that coitus is above all other acts. Still, I do not condone sexual stimulation in any form for those persons who are not engaged in a life-long, monogamous, committed relationship (a.k.a. marraige or wedlock).

Well, some say as far as you want as long as you do not have literal sex. (by the way this is also going on in the church) I don't agree thta it is correct, but I cannot give scripture there either.

Sure you can... you just don't know it yet. Here:

]"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. -- Matthew 5:27-28

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. -- Matthew 15:18-19
(Note the distinction between adultery and sexual immorality?)

The bible does not say to not do those things before we are married. It only says not to have sex.

Sex is a tough word - people take it to mean a lot of different things. If you call fellatio sex then is a person who does that a virgin still? If you say they are not, then that demeans the biological significance of the hymen and the idea that Mary could be a virgin and give birth.

Virgin is a biological term regarding the act of coitus and sex refers to the act which takes away virginity... thus coitus is sex. Calling oral stimulation sex is just as wrong as calling kissing sex - it isn't even though either one with a partner who is not your wife is adultery (understanding the cultural contexts and kissing). As for good ol' Clinton - he committed adultery and engaged in sexual foreplay in the Oval Office... a pretty disgusting thing.


do not believe that God intended oral sex as part of the design. There is just something wrong there.

But see, you're going out on a limb with nothing to back that up. Your only argument is a subjective/emotional feeling regarding it. Problem is, feelings can be wrong. You see, I have a feeling too and that feeling is that it isn't wrong, that the husband and wife's bodies are boh available for sexual stimulation in whatever healthy ways one might use. Why is your feeling any better than mine?

Bottom line is, you need to have scripture to back up your feelings... otherwise that's all they are.


Sex is great, but if there is no limit just because we have a marriage certificate then there is no need to stop at oral.

Heck no we shouldn't stop at fellatio, etc, that's not even half of what coitus is! But methinks you are referring to sodemy... and that is one of those things that Christians disagree on quite a bit. I don't feel that sodemy is appropriate because it is unhealthy and God condemns it and I don't think just in homosexual acts.

We are getting our ideas and experiences from the world, not the Lord. The bible does not deal directly with it as in spelling out positions or actions.

The bible also doesn't give instructions on what ways are appropriate to perform coitus, but that doesn't make any of them wrong.

My assumption is that it is understood.

With all due respect, your assumption is wrong then. Don't assume - know.

I realize that some say they can do this with a clear conscience, (although I think they are stretching the truth) but it is easy to quence the Spirit and I believe that many have.

I don't believe that they are stretching the truth because they haven't ever lied about anything else that I am aware of... so don't be so quick to dismiss what people tell you concerning their life experiences. And I also don't believe the Spirit is not powerful in them - they have all demonstrated that they are Christ-filled, loving Christians who are on fire for the Lord.

BL
 
I understand, but it is clear that we disagree. I pray that you are correct. If I am not it means little, but if you are incorrect then there will be an accounting. We will see.
 
Quote:
I do not believe that God intended oral sex as part of the design. There is just something wrong there.


But see, you're going out on a limb with nothing to back that up. Your only argument is a subjective/emotional feeling regarding it. Problem is, feelings can be wrong. You see, I have a feeling too and that feeling is that it isn't wrong, that the husband and wife's bodies are boh available for sexual stimulation in whatever healthy ways one might use. Why is your feeling any better than mine?

Bottom line is, you need to have scripture to back up your feelings... otherwise that's all they are.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. We can't rely on "feeling" to know what is right and what is not. God lays it out for us in His Word. That's where we are to look - not to some inner feeling. Feelings are mutable. God's Word is not.

Also, Saved - I was thinking - and I don't know your background, so I'm not saying that I am correct in saying this, but you said you were saved later in life:

I am full aware how far our flesh can take us since I did not become a Christian until late in life.

Well, my thought is this: isn't it possible that because of your experiences before salvation you are more jaded about sex, and that perhaps it holds a tinge of shame because your original view of it, was not God's view. Therefore, you feel that some things are wrong, simply because they are associated in your mind with things of the world. The fact is, the world did not create sex - God did. The world has sullied it and cheapened it, but that doesn't take away the fact that it is God's good creation and that sex within a Christian marriage is Holy and not shameful. It is not how the pornographers and the advertisers and the moviemakers portray it. Just because they have ruined something precious, doesn't mean that we as Christians are participating in what they are participating in.

I questioned earlier what lust is...what makes an act lustful rather than loving...because I really don't understand how you equate love with intercourse and lust with oral sex. If you could speak to that, because I don't understand how that is a logical arguement. Lust and love are conditions of the heart.

The bible does not deal directly with it as in spelling out positions or actions. My assumption is that it is understood. I do not think that silence is a license.

You understand it that way, because you want to understand it that way. Perhaps it is distasteful to you for whatever reason, and so you conclude that it must be sinful. Eating lima beans is distasteful to me, but some people like them, and last I heard it was okay to like them or not. As I said before, if it were a sin, God would have spelled it out in the Bible. Nowhere does it say that a man and wife must limit their sex lives in such ways that you are proposing. He wants us to know Him and love Him. Things that grieve Him, things that are sinful - He tells us straight out, because He wants us to live righteously. He's not out to trick us by making things so enigmatic that we can't see His commands. If the Bible doesn't talk about it, than it's probably not a big concern with God.

If you and your wife do not feel that you want that to be part of your relationship, that is perfectly fine. People have different preferences and interact in different ways. But in a case like this where you can't really back up your arguement with specific scriptures, I think it is best not to become too judgemental about fellow Christians who have honestly sought the Lord on the same issues, and have a clear conscience with regard to these activities. I don't think you have the right to say that such a person has quenched the Spirit in order to do what they want to do. It troubles me that you would say such a thing.
 
I read the webpage you linked to.....

It talked about our body parts each having a function and our mouths were not made for fellatio. Under that logic, coitus would be a sin because we use our vagina and penis to urinate.
 
But many body parts have more than one function.

We use our "vaginal area" to urinate, but we also use it for sex.

The mouth is for eating. But it's also used for kissing.

The feet are made for walking. But in people that have no arms, their feet are used for doing daily things that the hands can't do.
 
I know, that's the point I was trying to make. Their logic is flawed. If they insist their logic is right then coitus itself would be a sin.....and it's definitely not. (at least in the confines of marriage)
 
And let me just say, Saved, that whether or not I am wrong I have little to account for since I am not married but only engaged. Sooo....

BL
 
sillynikki said:
But many body parts have more than one function.

We use our "vaginal area" to urinate, but we also use it for sex.

The mouth is for eating. But it's also used for kissing.

The feet are made for walking. But in people that have no arms, their feet are used for doing daily things that the hands can't do.

You are coorrect, but those things are mentioned and accepted in the bible. Oral sex is not.
 
The Bible actually does not refer to just to coitus... if you'll notice it often uses sexual relations. That encompasses quite a bit of stuff.

For that matter, the Bible doesn't make any comments about the internet... perhaps it is sinful? But obviously, the Bible gives us principles for understanding what is right and what is wrong. I disagree with you about oral sexual stimulation, but I still applaud you for seeking God's will in your life.

BL
 
From the book by Joshua Harris titled , "not even a hint" comes this one- Lust is to want what you don't have and weren't meant to have. Lust goes beyond attraction, an appreciation of beauty, or even a healthy desire for sex- it makes these desires more important than God. Lust wants to go outside God's guidelines to find satisfaction."

..."Passionate sex was God's idea. He isn't embarrased by it. Song of Songs is an entire book of the Bible dedicated to celebrating pure sex in marriage"
Also from that book comes this conclusion- "Ultimately Lust doesn't want sex. It wants the forbidden, and it is willing to take you deeper and deeper into perversion if you'll indulge its latest request."
One is prodded to explore further and further in a never ending pursuit into lust changing the intent of God for an excuse to engage in lust because of a certificate.
 
Back
Top