Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
S

savedbygrace57

Guest
Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.
 
Ahaaaaa! Now we get to what you REALLY wanna talk about savedbygrace57. Ok buddy. I'm a fairly new Christian. I'll come along on this ride with you. I'm open minded. Maybe your right Let's see now...my obvious answers would be:

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all
men through him might believe.

All men.

13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


All that believe. Any are capable of hearing the Gospel and believing. So thats all men. (those that are unable to know the Gospel due to disability or age, God knows the heart and will treat accordingly)

3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Unto ALL men. All who believe.

2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Jesus seems to think that ALL men can be saved. Looks like the deciding factor is knowledge of the truth. The Gospel.

Thats just a few verses I found real quick. I'm sure theres more. I think that would count as scriptural evidence.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Ok so.....The option to be His sheep is open to all men. Quite clearly the deciding factor is knowledge of the truth. The Gospel message. No? All men can make the choice to hear the Gospel and have faith.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Again....all men have the option to join the Church. It's a matter of coming to the faith.

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

No but....All men CAN be IF they hear the Gospel and believe. Jesus died for all men to have the OPPORTUNITY to be saved.

The Apostle Paul was a child of the devil. He came good didn't he?

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

No...because there is scriptural evidence for it. And its totally logical. Why wouldn't He die for all men?

Again...I'm all ears on your theory. Lets have a rebuttal on that then we can get going.

Doc.
 
Eze 34:10 Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my sheep at their hand and put a stop to their feeding the sheep. No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.


Eze 34:11 "For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out.


Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock when he is among his sheep that have been scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.


Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land. And I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the ravines, and in all the inhabited places of the country.


Eze 34:14 I will feed them with good pasture, and on the mountain heights of Israel shall be their grazing land. There they shall lie down in good grazing land, and on rich pasture they shall feed on the mountains of Israel.


Eze 34:15 I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares the Lord God.


Eze 34:16 I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will destroy. [fn] I will feed them in justice.


Eze 34:17 "As for you, my flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and male goats.


Eze 34:18 Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture; and to drink of clear water, that you must muddy the rest of the water with your feet?


Eze 34:19 And must my sheep eat what you have trodden with your feet, and drink what you have muddied with your feet?


Eze 34:20 "Therefore, thus says the Lord God to them: Behold, I, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep.


Eze 34:21 Because you push with side and shoulder, and thrust at all the weak with your horns, till you have scattered them abroad,


Eze 34:22 I will rescue [fn] my flock; they shall no longer be a prey. And I will judge between sheep and sheep.


Eze 34:23 And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.


Jesus Christ died for all mankind. His atonement will only be applied to those who believe.
 
The shortline on this thread may be that Jesus died only for believers who believe EXACTLY like sbg57.

All others may be posers.

Let the scripture feast begin:

Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all

Hebrews 7:27
He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself

Hebrews 9:12
but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption

Hebrews 9:26
But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit

Mark 3:28
I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.

Colossians 2:
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

To any who believe the above sez what it sez...

kudos!

smaller
 
Here is my problem with this line of thought you are proposing. How do you know you are a sheep? Ok, you say because you hear His voice. I'll buy that. But how do you know it is the right voice? What if His voice is saying something different than what you believe? What about those who say, Lord, Lord? There are so many pin holes to this line of thinking that it leaks water out as fast as you can dump it in.

But the main question is how are you supposed to know if you are a sheep?
 
Ahaaaaa! Now we get to what you REALLY wanna talk about savedbygrace57. Ok buddy. I'm a fairly new Christian. I'll come along on this ride with you. I'm open minded. Maybe your right Let's see now...my obvious answers would be:



1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all
men through him might believe.

All men.

13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


All that believe. Any are capable of hearing the Gospel and believing. So thats all men. (those that are unable to know the Gospel due to disability or age, God knows the heart and will treat accordingly)

3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Unto ALL men. All who believe.

2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Jesus seems to think that ALL men can be saved. Looks like the deciding factor is knowledge of the truth. The Gospel.

Thats just a few verses I found real quick. I'm sure theres more. I think that would count as scriptural evidence.




Ok so.....The option to be His sheep is open to all men. Quite clearly the deciding factor is knowledge of the truth. The Gospel message. No? All men can make the choice to hear the Gospel and have faith.



Again....all men have the option to join the Church. It's a matter of coming to the faith.



No but....All men CAN be IF they hear the Gospel and believe. Jesus died for all men to have the OPPORTUNITY to be saved.

The Apostle Paul was a child of the devil. He came good didn't he?



No...because there is scriptural evidence for it. And its totally logical. Why wouldn't He die for all men?

Again...I'm all ears on your theory. Lets have a rebuttal on that then we can get going.

Doc.

I have not seen a verse yet that states that Jesus christ died for all men without exception.
 
Here is my problem with this line of thought you are proposing. How do you know you are a sheep? Ok, you say because you hear His voice. I'll buy that. But how do you know it is the right voice? What if His voice is saying something different than what you believe? What about those who say, Lord, Lord? There are so many pin holes to this line of thinking that it leaks water out as fast as you can dump it in.

But the main question is how are you supposed to know if you are a sheep?

This thread is not about how I know who are the Sheep. or How I know I am sheep.

Its to state a Myth, that Christ died for all men without exception, without any scripture stating that.
 
Eze 34:10 Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my sheep at their hand and put a stop to their feeding the sheep. No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.


Eze 34:11 "For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out.


Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock when he is among his sheep that have been scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.


Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land. And I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the ravines, and in all the inhabited places of the country.


Eze 34:14 I will feed them with good pasture, and on the mountain heights of Israel shall be their grazing land. There they shall lie down in good grazing land, and on rich pasture they shall feed on the mountains of Israel.


Eze 34:15 I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares the Lord God.


Eze 34:16 I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will destroy. [fn] I will feed them in justice.


Eze 34:17 "As for you, my flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and male goats.


Eze 34:18 Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture; and to drink of clear water, that you must muddy the rest of the water with your feet?


Eze 34:19 And must my sheep eat what you have trodden with your feet, and drink what you have muddied with your feet?


Eze 34:20 "Therefore, thus says the Lord God to them: Behold, I, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep.


Eze 34:21 Because you push with side and shoulder, and thrust at all the weak with your horns, till you have scattered them abroad,


Eze 34:22 I will rescue [fn] my flock; they shall no longer be a prey. And I will judge between sheep and sheep.


Eze 34:23 And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.

Jesus Christ died for all mankind. His atonement will only be applied to those who believe.

What scripture states that Jesus Christ died for all mankind without exception ? I cannot take your word for it.

And whats funny and odd, all the scriptures you quoted, not one stated that Jesus christ died for all mankind without exception.
 
I have not seen a verse yet that states that Jesus christ died for all men without exception.

Dude....your not even gonna discuss our posts? You are just demanding an EXACT phrase from the Bible? No dialogue?

And by the way you asked for SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE. So...we've given it to you.


If you dont wanna discuss then I'm gonna have to just "strongly analyse" your denomination from the inside out.

I've done a bit of research and.....your a hyper-calvinist correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What scripture states that Jesus Christ died for all mankind without exception ? I cannot take your word for it.

And whats funny and odd, all the scriptures you quoted, not one stated that Jesus christ died for all mankind without exception.

The previous passage was not intended to prove it. It was for you to personally consider.

But if you must know, here are some that do tell us it is for all mankind.

Mar 3:28 "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter,

How are sins forgiven? Only by Jesus death, right? If not please tell me how are sins forgiven.

Who are the children of man? They are not the children of God. The children of God are referenced as such, not the children of man.

Jhn 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

"Children of man" are not believers. But yet Christ said that all sins would be forgiven them.
 
Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

These verses do not say "His Sheep"; they clearly say "the sheep".:grumpy
 
One either believes that God sent Jesus to die for 1% of the human population or less to be saved, or you believe God sent Jesus for everyone.

I think the answer is obvious.
 
Something I wrote a few years ago:


Particular Redemption
Let me begin by saying I am not very fond of the term “limited atonement’. All but Universalists limit the atonement in some way. I prefer the term “Particular Redemption†as it speaks more plainly to the teaching of the Scriptures and leaves less room for misunderstanding. I will take as my text John 10:11. I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep. Now if that were the only passage of Holy Scripture that speaks to the doctrine of a definite and particular redemption we would still be bound to believe what it says. There seems to me to be absolutely no wriggle room in this statement by our Lord.
I want to speak to this issue from 3 perspectives as the Scriptures speak: Christ as our Surety, Christ as our sin bearer and Christ as our substitute. It is my purpose to show how and why we can trust Christ’s work for all our salvation.
A proper understanding of the atonement of Christ is crucial to the Gospel. There really is no Gospel without it. Let me see if I can explain: The good news of the Gospel lies in the truth of what Christ accomplished on the cross. Either He, by His death, actually accomplished redemption for someone or His death really means nothing. Where is the good news in an atonement that didn’t atone? Where is the wonderful message in a redemption that that didn’t redeem? How can a sinner look to a Savior with confidence who didn’t actually save? The only hope a sinner can have is that Christ did actually make an atonement for his sin. This is the ground of assurance we preach and believe. Our hope is in the finished work of the Savior.
Now our text says that the Good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep. No one took His life, they had neither the authority nor power to do so, He gave it up for the sheep. He repeats the fact that He lays down His life for the sheep again in verse 15 of John 10. He makes it even more plain in verses 17and 18 of the same chapter. He told Pilate that he had no power over Him unless it was given him from above. (John 19:11) Christ laying down His life for the sheep was a voluntary act on His part. There was no force or coercion involved. Infinite love and fathomless mercy toward the sheep moved Him to act.
A question?
This brings us to a question: How is it possible that Christ could voluntarily lay down His life for the sheep? It is true that no court in the world would allow such a thing. No righteous judge could possibly put to death an innocent person. God says in Proverbs 17:15, He that justifieth the wicked and he that condemeth the just, even they both are an abomination to God. How then can God be righteous and put to death that One who was holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners? The answer rests in the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ was no mere man. A mere man has no authority to lay down his life because his life doesn’t belong to him. All men answer to a higher authority, God, and have no right to give that which doesn’t belong to them. That isn’t the case with Christ. As God, He has every right over His own life and may give it as He pleases. He alone is able to lay down His life for the sheep. The word translated power in John 10:18 is authority.
Are you still with me? I know I have taken the long way around to get here but I believe it was necessary to lay a foundation in order to properly grasp the meaning of Scripture when it speaks of Christ’s atonement. So with what has been already said in mind lets now look at 3 ways the Bible speaks of Christ. I hope to answer the question as to how God can righteously put to death His darling Son in the place of chosen sinners. Once that has been answered we are able to see that the death of Christ on the cross was for the sheep alone.
A Surety.
The writer to the Hebrews tells us in 7:22 that Jesus was made a surety of a better covenant. What is a surety? The modern idea of a surety is like a co-signer on a loan but that isn’t the Scriptural concept. We have 2 examples given for us that will take us a long way in understanding what the Scriptures mean by a surety. The first is in Gen. 43:9. Judah becomes a surety for Benjamin. As a surety he agrees to bear all the blame for any failure. He takes upon himself full responsibility and by doing so relieves Benjamin of guilt for his failure to return. The second we find in Philemon 18. Paul became a surety for Onesimus. In essence Paul is saying that his debt is mine, I make it mine and agree to repay all he owes. Because Paul became surety no debt could be charged to Onesimus. He must go free. The debt is now Paul’s to repay. Onesimus no longer owes anything to Philemon. So we see that a surety doesn’t agree to pay only the part that is left unpaid, as a co-signer, but takes the whole debt in its entirety. The debt becomes solely his who is surety and that one for whom he becomes surety must go free because he no longer owes anything.
In the Covenant of Grace, made between the three persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world, Christ became Surety for all that the Father gave Him. (John 6:39) As the Great Shepherd of the sheep He took full responsibility for them and must bear the blame for any that are lost. As their Surety He guarantees their safety and must bring them into the sheepfold. (John 10:16) If He fails to do what He agreed to do then the blame isn’t on the sheep but on Him. Again, as the Surety of the sheep He took all their debt as His own. In that everlasting covenant ordered in all things and sure He said, “Whatever they owe I will repay. They must go free.†Justice no longer can seek satisfaction from them, they have a Surety. The creditor can no longer require payment from them, they have a Surety. They are free from all debt and blame; their Surety has taken it as His own. We have a beautiful picture of Christ our Surety when the men came to take Him in John 18:7,8. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
There are some in this world who are not the sheep for whom Christ became Surety. In verse 26 of John 10 we find our Lord telling some men that they believe not because they are not His sheep. He was neither their Surety nor their Shepherd. If He had been He couldn’t have said those words to them.
This thought ought to strike terror in the heart of unbelievers. How awful it will be to stand before the judge of the whole earth without a Surety. No wonder it is said in Rev. 6:16 that they will cry for the mountains and the rocks to fall on them and hide them from the wrath of the Lamb. Do you have a Surety? If you believe on Him who is the Surety of a better covenant you do. Trusting Him alone as taking your debt and making it His own is evidence that He is your Surety.
 
A Sin Bearer.
Next I want us to look at Christ the sin bearer. There are several passages of Scripture that speak of Christ bearing sin. Probably the most well known is Isa 53. In verse 6 we read that the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. In verse 11 we read that He shall justify many for He shall bear their iniquities. And in verse 12 we read He bare the sin of many. In what way did Christ bear sin?
Sin incurs guilt. If I rob a bank it makes no difference whether I am caught I am still guilty of bank robbery. I have committed a crime and deserve the just reward of my deed. I bear the guilt for my crime. Peter tells us in 1Pet. 2:24 that Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree. The great mass of guilt that was the burden of all the elect of God He took upon Himself. He bore it as a burden that was His own. He suffered under the heavy weight of it. The guilt of sin was imputed to Him in an act of justice. We read that the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. A transfer was made from the sinner to the Savior. (Remember what I said about Christ being the only one who has the authority to do such a thing) We have this typified for us in the scapegoat. Lev. 15:21,22
We read that Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the scapegoat
confessing the sin of the people putting them on the head of the goat typifying a transfer of guilt. In verse 22 we find that the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities. The scapegoat is then led away by the hands of a fit man (I love the way the KJV puts it) into the wilderness and let go never to be seen again. In the same way Christ, as our scapegoat bearing the sin of His people, has born sin away so thoroughly that God says of it that it shall be looked for but shall not be found. Jer. 50:20 He bore it away as far as the East is from the West. How far is that? North meets South at the poles but East never meets West. You may travel East forever without ever traveling West. He has removed our sin so completely that even God who sees everywhere can’t find it. He carried it away in His own body on the tree, blotting out the handwriting of ordinances against us taking it out of the way nailing it to His cross. In Hebrews 1:3 we read that He has (notice it is past tense) purged our sins. That means it is completely removed and no longer exists. When you purge something not even a small remnant of it remains. It is gone. Even the sin that I do today and will do tomorrow is gone. Christ bore it away.
A Subsitute.
Next is Christ our substitute. The passage that speaks to this is 2Cor. 5:21. I will be the first to admit that the word substitute isn’t in the Scriptures but certainly the idea is. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. An old preacher friend of mine once said, “ God must first do something for Himself before He can ever do something for the sinner.†We said earlier that sin incurs guilt. There is something else that sin incurs; it incurs the wrath of a holy and just God. He cannot just overlook and forgive sin. We are able to do that because we are ourselves sinners in need of forgiveness. He has sworn and will not go back that the soul that sins must die, Ezek. 18:4. Strict unbending justice demands the death of the sinner and before mercy can be granted justice must be satisfied. If God were to be merciful and forgive sin without satisfying the demand of strict justice He would cease to be God. His holiness and righteousness would fall to the ground. In Psa 85:10 we read that mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. There is only one way this can ever take place: in Christ our substitute. God hath made Him to be sin for us!
Can it be true? Was Christ made to be sin? Yes it is because He was. Remember what we said about no righteous judge putting an innocent man to death? The act of imputation that took place was no mere pasting on but a transfer of guilt. He didn’t just carry our sin it became His. He took it as His own and died under the wrath of God because of it. With one tremendous draft of love, He drank damnation dry. Again I refer you to 1Pet. 2:24. We read that He bore our sin in His own body on the tree not on His body. Psalm 40 is generally accepted as a Messianic Psalm. It is interpreted as Christ speaking. Hear what He says in verse 12: Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me
The Lord our Savior Jesus Christ satisfied all the demands of justice against the sin of all for whom He was the substitute. He stood in their place and suffered as a sinner until wrath was spent and could no longer rise up against His people. God can never again punish any for whom Christ was the substitute. God can never be wrathful against any sinner for whom Christ died. He may, in love, chastise and correct them but never again punish them. God did something for Himself in order to be merciful to sinners. He exhausted His wrath against the sin of His elect and satisfied His strict justice in a perfect substitute.
Conclusion.
There are more ways that Christ is spoken of in the Scriptures having to do with atonement by Him that I haven’t dealt with: propitiation, redemption, ransom, Passover, sacrifice, the Lamb of God and Jehovah’s Servant. All of which, when properly understood, speak of Him doing something for a particular people. Christ laid down His life for the sheep. There are no hypotheticals involved. As the Surety of His people He made their debt His. As their sin bearer He has removed their sin. As their substitute He stood in their place and put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. By His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb. 9:12
In light of these things the objections raised pale by reason of the glorious truth that Christ is the Savior.
 
These verses do not say "His Sheep"; they clearly say "the sheep".:grumpy

Jn 10:14

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.



15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The My Sheep in vs 14, are the same as the sheep in vs 15 !

Even though what your saying is petty.

Show me the scripture that says that Christ died for all men without exception if you can..
 
I have seen no statement by SBG57 that would identify him as a hyper-Calvinist. If you did research, how did you get that so wrong? Please show this "research."

What do you mean "got it wrong". I ASKED him if he was hyper-Calvinist...I didn't state it as fact.

Like I said in my first post. I'm a beginner on this particular subject.

But does the OP fit into any or all of the following groups?:

A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
  1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
  2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
  3. Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
  4. Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace," OR
  5. Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
 
Even though what your saying is petty.

Show me the scripture that says that Christ died for all men without exception if you can..

We've shown you scripture that shows Christ died for all men.

Asking for the word 'exception' is a tad petty I think seeing as the word doesnt even exist in the ENTIRE Bible.

And you think the other guy is being petty? LOLZ!

Your struggling here bud.
 
strange:

We've shown you scripture that shows Christ died for all men.

Not without exception, you have not. I know Christ died for all His Sheep, but all men are not His sheep.
 
Not without exception, you have not. I know Christ died for all His Sheep, but all men are not His sheep.

You're asking for a word that doesnt exist in the Bible. It's never used. It didn't exist!

When the Bible says ALL that means without exception.

Jesus dies for ALL men. He gave ALL men the opportunity to come to faith through the Gospels.

You have much invested in this flawed super-predestination theory of yours. You clearly have no grounds for debate and thus resort to demanding a word in the bible that hadn't even been invented at the time.

I'm warming up for a full expo on hyper-calvinism and if you keep this up I'm gonna launch into it.......................and it's not gonna end well for you.

Doc.
 
Back
Top