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The new breed of "Christian" for whom "love" = "tolerance"

R

Runner

Guest
#1
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.
 
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Messages
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Male
#2
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.
Everything is to be tolerated...all faiths....well, except christianity.

What was the forum? Sounds interesting.
 
R

Runner

Guest
#5
Everything is to be tolerated...all faiths....well, except christianity.
What was the forum? Sounds interesting.
I hesitate to give them any free advertising. It is one of the huge, multi-forum sites where you can discuss anything in one of their 123 forums and sub-forums. After being banned (and contacting the Alliance Defending Freedom as well as sending them correspondence on my law firm letterhead), I learned that they have a longstanding reputation for high-handed, arbitrary banishments. Even though they have a general Religion forum as well as separate sub-forums for Christianity and other religions, it is clear that atheism is the predominate mindset among the moderators. They cheerfully tolerate the new breed of "Christianity" I'm describing because (1) it embarrasses real Christianity and (2) it is completely toothless and unthreatening to atheism, Buddhism, Islam and pretty much anything else you'd care to believe.
 

Papa Zoom

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#7
I'm a refugee from one such site. One side of the coin is misguided tolerance while the other side is missing the mark on
Ephesians 4:15New International Version (NIV)
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.

Not to mention my sig line:
Ephesians 4:1-3 (NIV)
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Colossians 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

which is there to remind me of proper conduct according to God's Holy Word.

So, while one side of that coin is bad, so is the other. We need to live in tolerance of others, but not according to the world's definition but according to the Word:
Romans 12: …17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Carefully consider what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”…
 

Willie T

A man who isn't as smart as others "know" they are
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#8
This sounds good. But, I think even we, here, won't 'tolerate' different readings and understanding of our own Christian Scripture. By 'different', I mean interpretations that differ for our own personal views.
 

Papa Zoom

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#9
This sounds good. But, I think even we, here, won't 'tolerate' different readings and understanding of our own Christian Scripture. By 'different', I mean interpretations that differ for our own personal views.
I've beat that drum a few times myself. Apparently the problem is the Holy Spirit is telling different Christians different things. I'm being sarcastic of course but this is exactly my experience on forums and in real life. It's amazing how often it happens.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
35,793
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Yes
#10
I'm a refugee from one such site. One side of the coin is misguided tolerance while the other side is missing the mark on
Ephesians 4:15New International Version (NIV)
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.

Not to mention my sig line:
Ephesians 4:1-3 (NIV)
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Colossians 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

which is there to remind me of proper conduct according to God's Holy Word.

So, while one side of that coin is bad, so is the other. We need to live in tolerance of others, but not according to the world's definition but according to the Word:
Romans 12: …17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Carefully consider what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”…
Trump has a git a wall for you refugees,lol
 
R

Runner

Guest
#11
This sounds good. But, I think even we, here, won't 'tolerate' different readings and understanding of our own Christian Scripture. By 'different', I mean interpretations that differ for our own personal views.
In speaking of beliefs that claim to be Christian, I think where we have to draw the line is with those that are really complete perversions, that leave Christianity nothing but a hollow shell.

For example, "I'm a Christian, but I don't believe the Resurrection ever really happened."

The version I'm talking about in my OP goes considerably beyond denying the Resurrection. It is essentially: "There is no sin. There is no need for salvation. God loves everyone just the way they are. This was Jesus' message. All God wants us to do is love our neighbors just the way they are. Everything else is just hogwash, the product of primitive peoples' primitive thinking."

This guts the core Christian doctrines. There is no fall, no sin, no atonement, no repentance, no salvation. To allow it to masquerade as Christianity is a disservice to God, to real Christianity, and even to those who fall for this counterfeit and believe they are Christians.

In real Christianity, of course, God's love is tied to his holiness and justice. There may be no higher form of loving your neighbor than pointing out that he is on a path that God condemns and is in danger of suffering eternal consequences. This can be done in a respectful and kind manner, but it can't be sugarcoated.

When a version of Christianity merely strikes me as "not the best interpretation" of Scripture or even somewhat goofy, this is not in the same league. I may think Ken Ham's version of Christianity is pretty far out in left field or that 5-point Calvinism is seriously misguided, but they don't completely gut the core doctrines of Christianity. The "intolerance" at a forum such as this is more in the vein of a family feud. I am perfectly willing to tolerate (if that's even the right word) Ken Ham or 5-point Calvinists when I'm not willing to tolerate someone who claims to be a Christian but thinks the Resurrection never happened or that salvation is unnecessary.

Just for the record: In my experience on the other forum, my banishment was not related to any disagreement between me and the pretend-Christians. It strictly related to the atheist moderators' displeasure with me and my perspective that their bias toward well-reasoned mainstream Christianity was so extreme and heavy-handed that it might actually violate the law. (I'm a lawyer, but whether a privately owned Internet site that serves as a public forum can allow its moderators to discriminate against a particular religious perspective isn't entirely clear.) The atheist moderators wanted only Christians they could easily dismiss as "silly fundies" - and, of course, the pretend-Christians who really were their fellow atheists for all practical purposes.
 
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#12
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.
This new breed of Christianity that you describe sounds like it may be a good foundation for the one world church which they'll usher in. Tolerance, diversity, and freedom. What is truth anyway?
 
Joined
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#13
The most distinct line you can draw is what is the desire of a mans heart.

If it is on Christ, they are Christ's.

If it is on sin, they are satans.

The two cannot be fused together as much as some would like.

The days of Noah are prime example.
 
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#14
The most distinct line you can draw is what is the desire of a mans heart.

If it is on Christ, they are Christ's.

If it is on sin, they are satans.

The two cannot be fused together as much as some would like.

The days of Noah are prime example.
Then why do you still choose sin? I don't mean all the time...but often enough.
 
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#16
If you are asking about me personally, when I choose to sin it is because I take my eyes of Christ.
If you want this conversation you've been talking about you'll need to go deeper.

WHY??? Don't tell us what you or people do...BUT..tell us WHY.
 
B

banded butterfly

Guest
#18
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.....
I think I know the site you're speaking of. One happens on it in the first five results of any search engine if they enter keywords, Christian forums, as they seek community.
I lurked at the site I think you're referring to for awhile and that was enough to make me leave and never look back.
Your OP reads as if you're continuing your argument there, while getting in a few punches you weren't able to launch due to being banned.

Let it go. They're not that important. If they read the Bible at all they should know their duplicitous profile as artificial christians on a forum will be met at the judgment with a very stern real God whom they imagined was on their side while on-line. Pray for them. Don't bash them. Lost souls are a tragic thing to behold. :shame

To the overall question itself, which I would kindly suggest is the crux of the discourse, love is not tolerance of all things. If it were imagine the children of today being undisciplined entirely. And then note that in large part they are. Because of that very same idea. That tolerance is key.
One only has to make themselves tolerate what is otherwise unacceptable. If something is righteous one does not have to make themselves endure the behavior .

If tolerance equated love sinners wouldn't need to be saved. Their sins would be tolerable to God and Hell would not exist.
 
Joined
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1,525
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Male
#19
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.
I think that money earned from paid accounts factor in to this. One major site will apparently not allow the word "gender-confused" to be used. Ridiculous.
 
B

banded butterfly

Guest
#20
I think I know the site you're referring to. They are a site for which Ad-Blocker apps are a God send. But if you don't want to see advertisements that very often go against Christian ethics, you can become a paid supporter. Click on that link to do so and you find the money goes directly to the owner. Which changes every few years from what I gather. Not something I'd recommend in that if you pay through PayPal every month or even just once, they know everything about you. Your full legal name, address, phone, as provided them by PayPal itself.

And also, what I think gives them that motivation to install such a ridiculous rule is they have a number of self-identified Trans aboard. Who are openly gay and offensive to any mention that the Bible condemns that . In this life they may be pandered to. But when it is over they'll regret it.
 

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