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The new breed of "Christian" for whom "love" = "tolerance"

JLB

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#22
I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.
:salute
 

JLB

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#23
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.

Great post!


Thanks for your stand on the truth! :salute



JLB
 
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#24
This world has problems because everyone tries to push there views on everyone else.
I'm assuming your just joking.

I don't see the possibility of a positively functioning society without people "pushing their views on others." I mean, the alternative is literally anarchy. Morals, laws. That sort of thing.

Members of society get together and formulate standards and then " push them" on everyone in the form of laws and traditions.

The world has problems because of sin.
 
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#25
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle, however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.

You shall be hated of all men that have not been sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are therefore unable to overcome the relentless attacks of Satan. The world will consider you an enemy for simply sharing the truth of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Although most shun this prophetic statement, it is not really something to be feared unless one does not have the Spirit of truth residing within. The false teachers in the Christian Church and their many converts that have been led astray, shall easily deliver up the Godly in a futile attempt to obtain their own safety.

Luke 21:17 And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

You shall be hated of all men is a burden that few can carry, but the reward for doing so makes this time of tribulation bearable and worthwhile. To suffer alongside our Lord is an absolute necessity, as well it evidence of what separates the chosen from those involved in a religious masquerade.

Matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

When the majority of our time, treasures and talents are invested in this present evil world, it is impossible to say that we live for Jesus. We can’t claim to want to be delivered from evil, while participating in self delusion in order to protect and justify your own selfish desires, which are evil. You shall be hated of all men who follow after the traditions of man.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

How many who claim to be born again Christians, are in fact in bondage to sin as a result of the frauds at the pulpit that have tickled their ears, telling them all they desire to hear. You shall be hated of all men for daring to speak that which is given by the Holy Spirit. This will always contradict the commandments of men.

It is a great tragedy to never experience the true indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and yet claim to be born again without any evidence that this transformation has taken place.

You shall be hated of all men if you trust in Christ
Few today can distinguish the difference between the Words of God and the doctrines of men , and more importantly it is only a minority that wants to.



Our understanding of the gospel must not be based upon the doctrines of the false teachers in the Christian church. This does not represent knowledge at all, but rather vanity, and deadly deceit (Mat 15:8-9, John 4:24).

You shall be hated of all men if you are Sealed with the Holy Spirit of truth and have put on the mind of Christ. It is the Spirit of Christ that produces a true faith, and a sure hope of righteousness that can be received by those who endure unto the end (Gal 5:5, 1 Thes 5:8, 1 Pet 1:3, Mat 24:13, 1 Cor 2:16, 2 Cor 1:22, Eph 4:30, John 16:13).

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

Christian Halloween characters appear to have a Godly life, but they are unable or unwilling to submit to Christ, and thus prevent the Spirit of God from transforming their worldly minds. They play the part well, or so they think, but it is only with others who are involved in this disturbing game of make believe. God is not to be mocked by those who present a false pretense of being holy.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Pretend Christians are self deceived, as they have not really been changed; they are still lovers of themselves, and depend upon others for wisdom. This behavior is sinful at best, and completely destructive if allowed to run its course.

Real Christians have the ability to look within and judge themselves in light of Scripture revealed to them through the Holy Spirit. There is no hiding once we enter into this true relationship with the Lord! You shall be hated of all men if you receive this gift that is offered to all that ask.

False pretenses may be a statutory offense in a court of law, but when dealing with matters of spirituality they are quite deadly in their consequences (Rom 6;16-23, Rom 8:2, 2 Cor 1:9). The lack of spiritual discernment leads to the great deception within Christianity.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Holy Spirit that Christ sent teaches us all things, and prevents us from following the deceptive doctrines of men. Far too many confuse the tingling sensation they experience from an entertaining well orchestrated cinematic like production, at a building called the church, with that of the infilling of the Holy Spirit given to the true Church.

If Christians who claim to be Born again truly were, the fraudulent teachers in these so-called churches would be exposed, and their buildings would be vacant. They provide false messages of hope based on incredible deceptions.

2 Cor 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

The Redeemed in Christ will be saved. The all refers to all of a type, namely the faithful and obedient; these truly walk with and in Christ. He is the only way, the absolute truth, and in him we can have eternal life (John 3:15; 1 John 2:22-29).

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Only those who have a personal relationship with Jesus will be able to endure this final period of Christian persecution during the Great Tribulation. There will be an immense hatred directed towards them at the hands of all who partake in the kingdom of Satan. Those who endure until the end will be the ones that have been set apart unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Christ will return to redeem the people that have been sealed with His Holy Spirit. These keep His covenant and have His word in their minds and hearts (Isa 59:20-21; Heb 8:8-10).

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God, represent two unique events, with very different end results. All peoples who are alive on planet earth during the final three and a half years, of this current age, will experience the Great Tribulation. The Wrath of God however, is the judgment that separates the ungodly for eternity. You shall be hated of all men that are destined to inherit eternal death apart from Christ Jesus. These who despised the Lord without a cause will also seek to kill all who are in Christ. Physical death for the sanctified believer should not bring fear as it simply represents the beginning of eternal life.
 

JLB

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#26
You shall be hated of all men that have not been sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are therefore unable to overcome the relentless attacks of Satan. The world will consider you an enemy for simply sharing the truth of Jesus Christ.

I have had some who are sealed with the Holy Spirit hate me for sharing the truth.



JLB
 

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#27
I have had some who are sealed with the Holy Spirit hate me for sharing the truth.



JLB
You mean for sharing your opinion. You don't have a corner on the market of truth. You don't have a perfect theology. You just think you're view is correct. Others (like me) hold a different view and believe it with good reason. My view on OSAS differs from yours and I don't hate you for holding a different view. Christianity is full of believers that hold to different understandings. Lots of Christians think they alone have the "truth" when in fact, they are just as broken as the rest of us. Passion is no substitute for Truth.
 
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#28
I'm fresh from being banned on a very large religion forum where Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and New Agers mingle together. You mingle., however, only so long as the mostly atheist moderators find you tolerable. When a Christian actually meets their arguments head-on and tosses their ridicule and sarcasm back in their faces, he's history.

I was surprised, however, that my angriest opponents were not New Atheists but rather people calling themselves Christians. I came away believing this new breed of "Christian" poses a bigger threat to Christianity than the New Atheists could ever hope to be.

In this new "Christianity," God is purely a God of "love" - and love means "tolerance," nothing more and nothing less. God is essentially a doddering old grandfather who finds his grandkids' antics endlessly amusing and just wants them to have a good time, no matter how depraved their conduct might be.

In order to reinvent Christianity in this manner, you must (1) flush the entire Old Testament ("primitive hogwash" unworthy of God as we would like to imagine him); (2) disregard large swaths of the New Testament (Jesus simply "never said" anything we don't like, and Paul was of course beyond the pale); (3) toss out 2,000 years of Christian scholarship, leadership and worship; and (4) ignore core doctrines such as sin, repentance, atonement and salvation. Jesus' life, death and resurrection had nothing to do with anything you might describe as "atonement." No, Jesus was just giving us an example of how much God loves us, just the way we are.

I kept pointing out that "love = tolerance" is standard New Age treacle. I have no objection in principle to New Age treacle, just don't call it Christianity. How far would I get in the Muslim community if I insisted I were a Muslim but believed in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thought Muhammad was a minor league bozo? These new "Christians," however, seem to think Christianity is fair game for anything and everything you want to call by that name. How about this, from a New Age website: "Ascended Master Jesus has recently become Chohan of the 2nd Ray." Is that Christianity?

To these new "Christians," God is solely a God of "love," the only commandment is "love your neighbor," and loving your neighbor means "tolerating and even celebrating everything your neighbor does," even if the Bible clearly condemns it and even if it is detrimental to the functioning of society as God intended. If you do this, your neighbor will be equally tolerant of you.

I kept pointing out that the God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love. The three are tied together as intimately as the three persons of the Trinity. You can't just separate out love, reformulate it as tolerance for everyone and everything, and claim this is Christianity.

But they do. And there are apparently a lot more of them than I had realized. In their view, I as a mainstream Christian was no Christian at all. This is actually what was stated: I had no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, was a mindless "fundie," and was an embarrassing example of everything wrong with Christianity today.

I will give one atheist credit. He pointed out that mainstream Christians at least have integrity. They accept God as he has revealed himself, even though they may be puzzled or even disturbed by some of what he has revealed. The new breed of "Christians," in contrast, just selectively cherry-pick the parts of Christianity they "like" and call the new religion they have invented Christianity.

If I were Satan and were hell-bent on deceiving mankind, I would not bother with cartoonish silliness like the Church of Satan or Wiccanism. No, I'd concentrate my efforts on a plausible counterfeit of Christianity, one that is attractive and appealing but that robs real Christianity of its core message and its explanatory power. Something like "God just wants you to love your neighbor" and "loving your neighbor means tolerating and celebrating everything your neighbor does." This is not the only counterfeit out there, but it appears to be one of the most appealing and deceptive.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB). Bingo, that time is here.
Yes sir and one like or similar has arrived here to educate us but I don't believe he will he's going to pass muster here.

These folks never read nor do they study to understand God in the Old Testament and that means they are teaching "another gospel" and not the Gospel of Jesus, the Christ.

For about five years I have seen the Bible as being a single context from "In the beginning... through the very last word of Revelation 22. And if a person can find a Schofield notated Bible in their preferred version, it is easy to see that the Bible divided intentionally. The main text is the Bible Jesus, Paul and the others taught from and the following 27 are Commentaries, inspired by te same person of the Godhead that wrote/inspired the Old Testament. (John 1:1-5)

These people hate the Bible (Old Testament) and make th foolish claim that God changed after the four hundred or so years of silence but the Man/God they want to build has proclaimed in Mal. 3:6a that He never changes.

Jesus explained that He did not come to abolish the Law but to complete it. (Matt, 5:17) Since it is not abolished, it still applies... to the lost man. Our Savior reached out His hand to us filled with the greatest gift, ever, the Gift of salvation. It is a funny thing about gifts, they are not yours until you accept them.
 
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#29
The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God, represent two unique events, with very different end results. All peoples who are alive on planet earth during the final three and a half years, of this current age, will experience the Great Tribulation. The Wrath of God however, is the judgment that separates the ungodly for eternity. You shall be hated of all men that are destined to inherit eternal death apart from Christ Jesus. These who despised the Lord without a cause will also seek to kill all who are in Christ. Physical death for the sanctified believer should not bring fear as it simply represents the beginning of eternal life
A small question, all know that the Tribulation is seven years but what do you do with the first 3.5?
 
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#30
I just found this thread. interesting. I never thought I'd become a Christian, much less....a relatively traditional one...and its true...people who try to stick to Scripture and live accordingly don't "mesh" well with the surrounding culture. More so than any other faith, Christianity "rubs people the wrong way."

I'm a Christian, and I believe in miracles. Basic, traditional Christianity...to me, anyway. In my community, I'm now labeled "Schizophrenic," in part because of my (fairly standard, traditional) beliefs, plus The Lord's work in my life. Keep in mind; I live in "The Bible Belt" (1,000 miles wide, 1 inch deep), where it seems that "getting saved"=becoming a Southern Baptist and "knowing your place in society," something along those lines.

I dunno. It stands to reason that if human nature is such that we'll kill Jesus Himself, then...of course...we'll be rough on those who follow Him. I do have problems with what Runner wrote a bit about, the new "Christianity" that's anything but genuinely Christian. I don't see the point, honestly...its all sortsa "proclaiming a form of godliness, but lacking the power thereof...".
 

JLB

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#31
You mean for sharing your opinion.

No I mean sharing the truth.

Example:

Here are those who will receive eternal life.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Is this passage the truth or a lie?


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



JLB
 

Papa Zoom

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#32
No I mean sharing the truth.

Example:

Here are those who will receive eternal life.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Is this passage the truth or a lie?


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



JLB
You're sharing one verse (which is Truth) and then you are claiming what it actually means out of context and excluding all verses that address the issue (your opinion in other words).
 

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#33
You mean for sharing your opinion. You don't have a corner on the market of truth. You don't have a perfect theology. You just think you're view is correct. Others (like me) hold a different view and believe it with good reason. My view on OSAS differs from yours and I don't hate you for holding a different view. Christianity is full of believers that hold to different understandings. Lots of Christians think they alone have the "truth" when in fact, they are just as broken as the rest of us. Passion is no substitute for Truth.
Very well said :salute
 

JLB

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#34
You're sharing one verse (which is Truth) and then you are claiming what it actually means out of context and excluding all verses that address the issue (your opinion in other words).
Thanks for making my point. :salute

I posted the scripture, and the context, but you still deny what the scriptures says.

You can't even answer a simple question.


Is this passage the truth or a lie?

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7




God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



JLB
 

JLB

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#35
You don't have a corner on the market of truth. You don't have a perfect theology.

Never said I did.

You just think you're view is correct.

Please point out to me, how this scripture is now "my view" , as if scripture is somehow my opinion.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8





JLB
 

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#36
Thanks for making my point. :salute

I posted the scripture, and the context, but you still deny what the scriptures says.

You can't even answer a simple question.
Is this passage the truth or a lie?
  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

JLB
Ok, first of all, the next time you say I or anyone else denies what Scripture says I'll delete it or report you. So knock it off.

The Bible doesn't like. But Romans 2:7 means something in particular. I know what you think it means but there are many verses that cover the issue you're addressing and you have to look at the whole, and not just the part.

When looking at a single issue, and quoting a single verse to make your case, you ARE quoting out of the the context of the whole Bible. This is done all the time.

Of course the passage is telling the Truth. But then you, like others, go one with your own words and tells us what it means. That's my point. People quote verses left and right and then add their own personal commentary. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just pointing it out.
 

JLB

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#37
My view on OSAS differs from yours and I don't hate you for holding a different view. Christianity is full of believers that hold to different understandings.
Agreed.

Lots of Christians think they alone have the "truth" when in fact, they are just as broken as the rest of us. Passion is no substitute for Truth.
Broken or not, we are responsible for teaching either a lie or the truth.


JLB
 

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#38
Never said I did.

Please point out to me, how this scripture is now "my view" , as if scripture is somehow my opinion.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

JLB
I didn't say Scripture is your view. That's not what I said at all. If you want to share Scripture, just post the verses and nothing else.

As soon as YOU post your own words, you are commenting on what the Bible means and not simply sharing what it says. When you explain the meaning, you are explaining YOUR view of the text.
 
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#39
Thanks for making my point. :salute

I posted the scripture, and the context, but you still deny what the scriptures says.

You can't even answer a simple question.


Is this passage the truth or a lie?

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7




God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



JLB
He refused, in another string to tell me his thoughts or view on why we still have the Old Testament and went all livid on me. That told me right up front, New Age ¿Preacher?
 

JLB

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#40
Ok, first of all, the next time you say I or anyone else denies what Scripture says I'll delete it or report you. So knock it off.

The Bible doesn't like. But Romans 2:7 means something in particular. I know what you think it means but there are many verses that cover the issue you're addressing and you have to look at the whole, and not just the part.

When looking at a single issue, and quoting a single verse to make your case, you ARE quoting out of the the context of the whole Bible. This is done all the time.

Of course the passage is telling the Truth. But then you, like others, go one with your own words and tells us what it means. That's my point. People quote verses left and right and then add their own personal commentary. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just pointing it out.
Base on this passage of scripture, Romans 2:6-8, do you believe God will give eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


JLB