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The ONLY way to God.

Papa Zoom

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#1
Is through the Son. There are no other paths. Religion won't get you there. No denomination or church organization will get you there. Only Jesus. He is the Way and the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. Dispite this clear biblical teaching, there are those that want to suggest that there are other ways to God. Other paths. Other religions. Not so.

It's not my opinion. It's the biblical teaching. Only Christ saves. Only Christ reconciles us to the Father. Jesus, being fully man AND fully God is the only one capable of bringing us to the Father in perfect righteousness. As Christians, we ought to oppose and expose as false any attempts to change the truth that Jesus is the only way.

IF it were the case that other religions can lead one to God and salvation, then Christianity is false and to be ignored. The Holy Bible then is a lie. You can't be the only way to God and not the only way at the same time. Either Jesus is the only way and all other ways false, or there are many paths to God and Jesus isn't one of them (because if other ways are also true then Jesus is a liar and a false prophet and certainly not to be trusted).

You can't have it both ways. Either there is one way or there isn't. Thoughts?

Resource links:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/how-can-christ-be-the-only-way-to-god
http://magazine.biola.edu/article/12-winter/why-is-jesus-christ-the-only-way-of-salvation/
 
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#3
Is through the Son. There are no other paths. Religion won't get you there. No denomination or church organization will get you there. Only Jesus. He is the Way and the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. Dispite this clear biblical teaching, there are those that want to suggest that there are other ways to God. Other paths. Other religions. Not so.

It's not my opinion. It's the biblical teaching. Only Christ saves. Only Christ reconciles us to the Father. Jesus, being fully man AND fully God is the only one capable of bringing us to the Father in perfect righteousness. As Christians, we ought to oppose and expose as false any attempts to change the truth that Jesus is the only way.

IF it were the case that other religions can lead one to God and salvation, then Christianity is false and to be ignored. The Holy Bible then is a lie. You can't be the only way to God and not the only way at the same time. Either Jesus is the only way and all other ways false, or there are many paths to God and Jesus isn't one of them (because if other ways are also true then Jesus is a liar and a false prophet and certainly not to be trusted).

You can't have it both ways. Either there is one way or there isn't. Thoughts?

Resource links:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/how-can-christ-be-the-only-way-to-god
http://magazine.biola.edu/article/12-winter/why-is-jesus-christ-the-only-way-of-salvation/
But how do you get to Lord Jesus Christ?
 
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#4
I Saw A Man

1st

Last night I dreamed an angel came
He took my hand, He called my name
He bade me look the other way
I saw a man I heard Him say.

Chorus:
He said if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men to me
I turned and then I saw the nailed scarred hands that bled for me
I touched the hem of His garment that fell 'round me there
My heart, my life I gave, my soul was in His care.

2nd
When I awoke, my heart beat so
And in the darkness I saw a glow
It was no dream, He turned my way
Again I heard my Savior say.

He said if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men to me
I turned and then I saw the nailed scarred hands that bled for me
I touched the hem of His garment that fell 'round me there
My heart, my life I gave, my soul was in His care.
 
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#5
You cannot hold to biblical inerrancy and believe there are other paths to God, but pluralists generally take a different approach to Scripture. If you view the Gospel of John as a powerful faith statement by the early Christian community rather than as words spoken by Jesus himself, then you can have it both ways--Christ was recognized as the way, the truth, and the life by these people, but they wouldn't have actually been qualified to speak about other traditions.

I'm for all intents and purposes an agnostic who has decided that God actually was revealed in the person, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I take the Bible much more seriously now than I did when I was an atheist, but I still view it as an imperfect human creation. I'm not a pluralist because I don't think any other faith involves quite the same complete revelation, but I still don't take an either-or approach. When you go in with the assumption that some embellishment took place, it'd be insane to decide that that very embellishment disqualified the religion.
 
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#6
If you view the Gospel of John as a powerful faith statement by the early Christian community rather than as words spoken by Jesus himself,
And why would I do that?
John clearly writes as if he is quoting Jesus. Why would I think he really didn't mean it? :shrug

Iakov the fool
 
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#7
But how do you get to Lord Jesus Christ?
Good thought.

John the Baptist prepared the way to Christ (repenting of sins against the Father)

Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice to provide forgiveness of sins.

Jesus realized that he was returning to heaven and that their needed to be a plan to get lost folks to heaven.

1. Repent (on way tojesus)
2. Accept / believe in work of Jesus for eternal life.

That takes care of themuns.
Now about usens off in the future.

Without power the ones that hung around with Jesus get saved, but are unable to get others saved in the future. If this was not true then sending the Disciples to Jerusalem to receive power was not needed.

The Holy Spirit helps folks become witnesses. The way is extended from them through us and off into the future.

3. Receive Holy Spirit that you might be witnesses.

Not just tongue talkers, but tongue talkers that speak to others in their understanding.
Explaining:
Sin
Righteousness
Judgement
......
Taking folks through the entire journey.

eddif
 
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#8
You cannot hold to biblical inerrancy and believe there are other paths to God, but pluralists generally take a different approach to Scripture. If you view the Gospel of John as a powerful faith statement by the early Christian community rather than as words spoken by Jesus himself, then you can have it both ways--Christ was recognized as the way, the truth, and the life by these people, but they wouldn't have actually been qualified to speak about other traditions.

I'm for all intents and purposes an agnostic who has decided that God actually was revealed in the person, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I take the Bible much more seriously now than I did when I was an atheist, but I still view it as an imperfect human creation. I'm not a pluralist because I don't think any other faith involves quite the same complete revelation, but I still don't take an either-or approach. When you go in with the assumption that some embellishment took place, it'd be insane to decide that that very embellishment disqualified the religion.
After about 6 weeks we may be able to answer / address some of what you have opened. I am waiting to see how Papa Zooms to answer.

eddif
 
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#9
And why would I do that?
John clearly writes as if he is quoting Jesus. Why would I think he really didn't mean it? :shrug

Iakov the fool
Well, the Gospel of John is a difficult one and people have been reading it differently for 2000 years. There is so much metaphor--light of the world, bread of heaven, that you've got to draw a line somewhere between what's symbolic and what's not.

I personally don't think John's quoting Jesus because his version of Jesus sounds far more like the Johannine epistles than the Synoptics. I do think he meant what he said, but I suspect he was peeling back the surface layer and giving an account of what was going on beneath, not faithfully quoting Jesus. Especially given that it's thought to have been the last one written.

I'm certainly fine with people thinking everything in John actually does go back to Jesus himself. You could well be right, but people who have doubts about the historicity of John aren't calling Jesus a liar, and I do not think a literalist reading is necessary for Christianity to be true. Everything hinges on the Resurrection, not a handful of claims made in John.
 

Papa Zoom

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#10
But how do you get to Lord Jesus Christ?
He comes to you. And you receive Him. There isn't a one way fits all answer to this question. Different people have different stories about how they came to faith. I grew up in the church. In our tradition, we recognized our failures as sinners and professed faith in Christ in front of the congregation. (Romans 10:9 (ESV) 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.) After that we were immediately baptized. From there is a journey of learning to walk in our faith and getting to know Jesus as we would any friend. “This is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3).

Faith in Christ is about a relationship. I'll speak for myself here. For me it started when I recognized I was broken (sin but I like to call it brokenness because it better describes how I am. I'm broken and I need fixing - and Jesus if the Fixer). Even though I am saved, I know there is still brokenness in me. But thanks to God - in Christ, I am unbroken. In Christ, I am clothed in righteousness. I am holy, in Him. In Christ I have a relationship with the Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the HS, and God the Son. And as I've walked in faith in Jesus, I grow in my understanding of who I am in Him. This is a relationship that begun when I was a child. As I get even older, that relationship grows sweeter. I seek to know Him even more.

One thing I know: I did not come to Him; He came to me. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." God reached down from Heaven and met us in the person of Jesus Christ. He sought after us like the Prodigal Father (I know it's the Prodigal Son story but it's about the Father, not the son - though it is about both sons in part). He waits for us, longs for us to come to Him.
 
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#12
Well, the Gospel of John is a difficult one and people have been reading it differently for 2000 years. There is so much metaphor--light of the world, bread of heaven, that you've got to draw a line somewhere between what's symbolic and what's not.
All literal and physical usually has some options:
1. Just look at the literal.
2. Just look into the parable / shadows / types / metaphors / etc with carnal understanding.
3. Realize the literal / physical was made by God (God the US - Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Any conversation can start:
A. At physical creation looking toward seeing: Father, Son, Holy Spirit aspects behind / above / beyond the creation.
B. At the Father looking toward seeing the Son, Holy Spirit and supporting well designed physical creation (seeing everything).
C. At the Son looking toward the Father, Holy Spirit, and natural creation. (Life breathed into creation as just one instance).
D. At Holy Spirit (realizing that he is going to promote the other aspects).

Metaphysics:
Physical
Spiritual beyond / greater than physical.


Take any writer and see where they start, and try to understand there might be a limit or area to their discussion. It takes a liver, lungs, kidneys to make a whole person. The Body of Christ is made up of differing persons, having gifts given as the Spirit wills,

I will die before I understand everything. Sometimes a persons faults are shown. Sometimes the jewels of their life are shown close to their broken and contrite heart.

The physical and spiritual can be paralled (may take generations or be revealed at the last day).

Mississippi folks struggle to put all this into understandable statements (limited intelligence and all that).

eddif
 
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#13
But then there is 1 Corinthians 2 to explain 'reading it differently'.....
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 But we speak wisdom among them that are mature: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nothing:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.
10 But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man, except the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. KJ2000
Edited.....

 
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#14
The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings we receive from God.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
 
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#15
Isaiah 40:3 KJV
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

eddif
 
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#16
But then there is 1 Corinthians 2 to explain 'reading it differently'.....
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 But we speak wisdom among them that are mature: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nothing:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.
10 But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man, except the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. KJ2000
Given that Paul himself interpreted Scripture allegorically in Galatians 4:21-31, I'm unconvinced that his words here have anything to do with literal vs. metaphoric readings. The Corinthian church seems to have been dabbling in paganism, which is a different issue entirely. I do think there's a problem in insisting on a specific reading to suit your own purposes, but sometimes this means taking too literal approach--for instance, using "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" to support separation of church and state when the deeper meaning there is that Caesar is not God.

That aside, there is most certainly biblical evidence that you can be saved without knowing Christ. It wasn't a problem for Abraham, so it seems to me that there are two options: 1) at the very least, salvation is available through other Abrahamic faiths as well, at least in specific situations, or 2) it is possible to be saved by Christ without actually knowing Him. Is the second possibility something that was only available in the past but has now been withdrawn? It seems odd to me to say that the scope of God's grace would in some way have decreased with the Incarnation. It could certainly be a matter of special circumstances, but to deny the possibility altogether is rather extreme. Especially when Jesus quite explicitly in other places lays out the requirements for salvation as loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. (To what extent that is possible outside of Christianity is a legitimate question, especially if you're Abelardian like me and inclined to believe that the whole purpose of the Incarnation was to inspire precisely that type of all-encompassing love.)
 
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#17
Given that Paul himself interpreted Scripture allegorically in Galatians 4:21-31, I'm unconvinced that his words here have anything to do with literal vs. metaphoric readings. The Corinthian church seems to have been dabbling in paganism, which is a different issue entirely. I do think there's a problem in insisting on a specific reading to suit your own purposes, but sometimes this means taking too literal approach--for instance, using "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" to support separation of church and state when the deeper meaning there is that Caesar is not God.

That aside, there is most certainly biblical evidence that you can be saved without knowing Christ. It wasn't a problem for Abraham, so it seems to me that there are two options: 1) at the very least, salvation is available through other Abrahamic faiths as well, at least in specific situations, or 2) it is possible to be saved by Christ without actually knowing Him. Is the second possibility something that was only available in the past but has now been withdrawn? It seems odd to me to say that the scope of God's grace would in some way have decreased with the Incarnation. It could certainly be a matter of special circumstances, but to deny the possibility altogether is rather extreme. Especially when Jesus quite explicitly in other places lays out the requirements for salvation as loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. (To what extent that is possible outside of Christianity is a legitimate question, especially if you're Abelardian like me and inclined to believe that the whole purpose of the Incarnation was to inspire precisely that type of all-encompassing love.)
I will just dabble along with some things.

The Corinthians were pagans / Gentiles coming to God. Unlike Jewish persons they had to be educated totally from 101 into spiritual things. The Corinthian wizards would have had mantras with no meaning about God associated with it. Cult sexual practices were all they knew.

The Jews fell into sin, but they did have prophets (some the Jews killed). Word of knowledge they understood from prophets. Healing they saw at times. A few were raised from the dead. Prophecy they experienced. Jews should have known.
But
Gentiles had to have it laid out for them. The Corinthian Epistles took care of most of their instruction.

Abraham's bosom and the folks of OT faith had a visit from Jesus, and Jesus preached the gospel to them. The OT / OC folks believe absolutely the same Gospel we do.

I want to chill for now. Loading you up with years of study can lead to overload. You are way ahead of my timeline already though.

Redneck
eddif
 
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#18
Given that Paul himself interpreted Scripture allegorically in Galatians 4:21-31, I'm unconvinced that his words here have anything to do with literal vs. metaphoric readings. The Corinthian church seems to have been dabbling in paganism, which is a different issue entirely. I do think there's a problem in insisting on a specific reading to suit your own purposes, but sometimes this means taking too literal approach--for instance, using "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" to support separation of church and state when the deeper meaning there is that Caesar is not God.
Your statement simply proves what Paul was saying......
1Co 2:14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated. ISV
Spiritual means having the Holy Spirit without whom scripture is foolishness.....in other words it makes no sense.
 
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#19
Is through the Son. There are no other paths. Religion won't get you there. No denomination or church organization will get you there. Only Jesus. He is the Way and the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. Dispite this clear biblical teaching, there are those that want to suggest that there are other ways to God. Other paths. Other religions. Not so.

It's not my opinion. It's the biblical teaching. Only Christ saves. Only Christ reconciles us to the Father. Jesus, being fully man AND fully God is the only one capable of bringing us to the Father in perfect righteousness. As Christians, we ought to oppose and expose as false any attempts to change the truth that Jesus is the only way.

IF it were the case that other religions can lead one to God and salvation, then Christianity is false and to be ignored. The Holy Bible then is a lie. You can't be the only way to God and not the only way at the same time. Either Jesus is the only way and all other ways false, or there are many paths to God and Jesus isn't one of them (because if other ways are also true then Jesus is a liar and a false prophet and certainly not to be trusted).

You can't have it both ways. Either there is one way or there isn't. Thoughts?

Resource links:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/how-can-christ-be-the-only-way-to-god
http://magazine.biola.edu/article/12-winter/why-is-jesus-christ-the-only-way-of-salvation/
I agree with how you read the scripture which is quite clear to all. No one enters the Kingdom of God except by the Son.

Other religions=>I don't need Jesus I can just pray to God and He will forgive my sins.
Teachings of Gods Christ state=>its not for man to choose how to forgive sin.
In regard to God those who listen and learn from the Father go to the Son. As is written, "they shall all be taught by God"

So if the Father was one's God that person would love the Son. It was the Father in the Son doing His work. The Father spoke in Jesus and Jesus conveyed those words to the people.

The tomb was empty.
 
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#20
Proverbs 3:5-8
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones.

Proverbs 3:5-8 talking about not relying on our own understanding or being wise in our own eyes lines up with Paul saying that he did not come with enticing words of wisdom, or in excellency of speach. But still Paul came in weakness, fear and trembling.

With that in mind an issue I struggle with is with correcting someone else. In two occurances lately I've failed to reach out so that a person can find God. One from work, who seemed to be friendly but was against bible thumpers like her parents said she was Wiccan. On that oppurtunity I stayed silent. Another from church was bright and happy, saying she found more clues to fill her understanding, but the more she spoke about them the more I understood they were not bibical, but steered away from it. Still she at least still believed in Jesus, and the excuse I wore for not correcting her is that we are saved by Jesus not by our understanding. Both are times of weakness and fear. After all if we know Jesus is the only way to God but fail to act on that to those around us, what good is that knowledge to know condemnation towards friends and family.

If I am alone in this kind of struggle to bring others to to Jesus and tell them about Jesus, or even what Jesus and God have done in my life; then that is great news that everyone else is strong and brave in their testimonies.

If you can, please pray that we as a church (or just me) are strong in God even through our fears and weaknesses and still reach out like Paul did to pagans and Gentiles. If anyone has any insight to overcome the fears that stop the teachings of Jesus, the gospel, and our personal testimonies, please PM me, or share it.

Thanks.