The "plain words of Scripture"

[JLB]

This wasn't the passage under discussion.

It's all about the same thing, your flesh ruling your life and causing you to be cast into hell, die.


There are two ways to live life on this earth:

According to the flesh, or according to the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Those who are "in" Christ have a choice:

• Live their life according to the sinful desires of the flesh.
• Live their life according to the righteous desires of the Spirit within them.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5

• those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh.
• but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die.
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Those who are in Christ will either:

• live according to the flesh
• by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body,

Those who are in Christ will either:

• set their minds on the things of the flesh.
• set their minds of the things of the Spirit.

JLB

 

[JLB]

He wasn't.


I haven't ignored it. I reject it as false.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. Matthew 5:29-30

Why would Jesus warn His people of them going to hell, if it weren't true?


Here is the if context of the passage.


11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. Matthew 5:11-30



If Jesus was not speaking directly to His disciples, His sheep that hear His voice, whom He knows, and that follow Him, then who?



JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

I disagree. Just because of disagreement doesn't mean the OP isn't true. I showed from Scripture that Jesus' figures of speech weren't being understood, even by His own disciples.

The point being, when defending one's doctrines, one shouldn't rely on passages with figures of speech, but on plain words.

Let me provide an example, for clarity.

There are 2 passages relied on heavily by the OSNAS side that uses figures of speech (metaphors) of branches being cast into a fire, and they CLAIM that is "plain language" about loss of salvation, or being cast into hell.

But, is it really such "plain language"? No, it isn't.

If there were plain language on loss of salvation, then there would be a verse warning directly of loss of salvation. That IS plain language.

Conversely, the OSAS side quotes from Rom 6:23 and 11:29 to show that eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable. That IS plain language.

And I disagree with that, as thinking it should be considered without the truth that they did not, yet, have the Holy Spirit. People on the Church Roll, aggressively, disagree with me but that is an indicator of their fruit. With the Holy Spirit there is no misunderstanding.

When I was a Lost man, the Old Testament was pure gibberish to me. The night the Holy Spirit overcame me, the scriptures were crystal clear. As I said before the followers of God need to shut-up and listen. He gives to each the understanding we need for the time and place that we are right then. If we are saved and we meet another saved person and their take on any verse differs from what we have learned can harmonize with what they say they have learned or are they in conflict.

As Christians, we are much to greedy to jump down one another's throat.

 

[reba]

Closed this thread for moderator review... personal insults coming from all sides ... some a little more subtil then the others...