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lecoop said:
turnorburn said:
If this doesn't say it well... :oops:

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Maybe you need a page from Foxes Book Of Martyrs to show you how they were killed. They would cry foul, don't you think, Coop escapes persecution because he was better than these. Coop they took entire families men women and children, Satan loves it, he hates us and finally he's deceiving you so that when the time comes you'll be in shock, his trickery has duped you, and I thought you were smarter. But being smart has nothing to do with evil does it now?

In His Service,
turnorburn

Heb. 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Coop escapes persecution? I spent 8 days in jail, in June 07, and spent about $5000 for a lawyer and for court fines, because I took a young lady to a church service, just because she asked me to. And the sad part, it was church people that did it.

Coop

:oops:
Sorry to hear that Coop, I spent 30 days, so does this mean you do or don't want to
see that page from the book of martyrs, they paid with their lives to get released.
 
turnorburn said:
lecoop said:
turnorburn said:
If this doesn't say it well... :oops:

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Maybe you need a page from Foxes Book Of Martyrs to show you how they were killed. They would cry foul, don't you think, Coop escapes persecution because he was better than these. Coop they took entire families men women and children, Satan loves it, he hates us and finally he's deceiving you so that when the time comes you'll be in shock, his trickery has duped you, and I thought you were smarter. But being smart has nothing to do with evil does it now?

In His Service,
turnorburn

Heb. 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Coop escapes persecution? I spent 8 days in jail, in June 07, and spent about $5000 for a lawyer and for court fines, because I took a young lady to a church service, just because she asked me to. And the sad part, it was church people that did it.

Coop

:oops:
Sorry to hear that Coop, I spent 30 days, so does this mean you do or don't want to
see that page from the book of martyrs, they paid with their lives to get released.


Save your time. I've read the book.

Coop
 
onelove said:
This is not some future time,let's look at these verses in Rev

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Again nobody is in the ground somewhere

The 5th seal opening is a vision that is not to be interpreted as something that John is seeing in heaven. In the temple at Jerusalem were two altars; the altar of sacrifices, and the altar of incense. The altar here referred to the altar of sacrifices. The souls were seen under the altar as sacrifices. The souls were most probably crying out from the grave, waiting for the first resurrection where they will be avenged. Their white robes were symbolic of their purity.

Nothing that is said in the opening of this 5th seal absolutely states that these souls are seen in heaven. However; the information given does state facts related to the above description. Remember…John’s visions in Revelations are not all visions of what is going on in heaven. In this case John is seeing the souls of the sacrifices, (in the grave) just before the coming of Christ and the first resurrection, (Rev, 20:4).

We die, we sleep, (this sleep has no reference to time…we are in the spirit), then resurrection to be with the Lord, or we live until His second coming and are transformed just after those that sleep. :)

P.S. your statement, “To be absent from this body IS to be present with the Lord†appears no where in the Bible.

Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is merely speaking of the end result. Dust to dust...spirit to God who gave it. This is a general statement. :wink:
 
GraceBwithU said:
...
P.S. your statement, “To be absent from this body IS to be present with the Lord†appears no where in the Bible.

Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is merely speaking of the end result. Dust to dust...spirit to God who gave it. This is a general statement. :wink:

Howdy Grace.
I am just passing through, and thought I would offer this. I think this might be the passage that Onelove was thinking about:

2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 
GraceBwithU
The 5th seal opening is a vision that is not to be interpreted as something that John is seeing in heaven. In the temple at Jerusalem were two altars; the altar of sacrifices, and the altar of incense. The altar here referred to the altar of sacrifices. The souls were seen under the altar as sacrifices. The souls were most probably crying out from the grave, waiting for the first resurrection where they will be avenged. Their white robes were symbolic of their purity.

You've got to be kidding me,anyway let's look at scripture

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.

"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.

Nothing that is said in the opening of this 5th seal absolutely states that these souls are seen in heaven. However; the information given does state facts related to the above description. Remember…John’s visions in Revelations are not all visions of what is going on in heaven. In this case John is seeing the souls of the sacrifices, (in the grave) just before the coming of Christ and the first resurrection, (Rev, 20:4).

These are those that Christ will bring with Him at His return.Let's go to thess

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.

After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

Now can you tell me how they will come with Him if they are not already with Him(in Heaven)

Gabbylittleangel

Howdy Grace.
I am just passing through, and thought I would offer this. I think this might be the passage that Onelove was thinking about:

2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Thankyou Gabby that is exactly what I was referring to.
 
hi.gif

O.k. you read the book, now what about this scripture verse?

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
 
onelove said:
You've got to be kidding me, anyway let's look at scripture

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.

I can understand why you think I'm kidding you if you think this one verses is the key to Revelations. There are many keys. Pre-trib Rapturist belief Rev 4:2 was symbolic of the church being raptured. The pre-rapture of the church?...Not Biblical.

John was still on earth in chapter 1, in the spirit; yes. He was in the spirit in the same way true Christians are every Lord's Day. John is being prepared for what is to be revealed to him. John is on earth, in the spirit, on the Lord's Day. John's spirit is not in heaven until 4:2. Before this he was in the spirit and hearing God's words and seeing the vision of God and the seven candlesticks, (the seven curches). This is all John needed to see at this time.

Rev 1:9-10
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
KJV

See one verse before what you quoted. Rev 1:9, tells us where John was on earth. Rev 1:10 tells us when he was at this place and the condition of John’s spirit. He was at worship and his spirit was in direct contact with God. Christ was about to speak to him about the letters to the seven churches. The words "Lord's Day" are used to let us know that what is being spoken and seen at this point is different than "the Day of the Lord".

I see what you mean about understanding this verse is one of the keys to understanding Revelations. You are correct that understanding this scripture is an important key, as are many. So you should understand the difference between the "Lord's Day" and the "Day of the Lord" before you go further. I never really thought of this verse as a key, because I understood it the first time I read it.

onelove said:
These are those that Christ will bring with Him at His return.

Yes, I agree. It's just that at this point they are still crying out from the grave, under the altar of which they have been sacrificed. The position of these souls is another key in understanding where they are speaking from, (not where John was). The vision is about the souls…not John or where he was.

onelove said:
The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

You have obviously not read my post. There are only two comings of Christ. Nothing about the Rapture as believed by western Christianity is Biblical. The word rapture is only related to the event in 1 Thes, 4 in the fact of the dictionary meaning of the word, "gathering up".

onelove said:
Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

The discussion of what happens to the spirit after death is a completely different subject, actually. This thread has lead to many different discussions about Revelation that doesn’t really have anything to do with the so called “Raptureâ€Â.

I’m as much to blame for the discussion getting off track as you are. It’s easy to do.

onelove said:
Now can you tell me how they will come with Him if they are not already with Him(in Heaven)

Never said they would not come with him. I said that in the opening of the 5th seal they are not yet resurrected.

Gabbylittleangel
Howdy Grace.
I am just passing through, and thought I would offer this. I think this might be the passage that Onelove was thinking about:

2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I understand all of this. I will explain what these scriptures really mean in another thread someday.
:biggrin
 
turnorburn said:
hi.gif

O.k. you read the book, now what about this scripture verse?

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

All those killed in the book, will be in this group under the altar. James and Stephen were the first.

Coop
 
GraceBwithU said:
onelove said:
You've got to be kidding me, anyway let's look at scripture

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.

I can understand why you think I'm kidding you if you think this one verses is the key to Revelations. There are many keys. Pre-trib Rapturist belief Rev 4:2 was symbolic of the church being raptured. The pre-rapture of the church?...Not Biblical.
I can agree with you that suggesting the rapture at Rev. 4:1 is pitiful bible exegesis.

John was still on earth in chapter 1, in the spirit; yes. He was in the spirit in the same way true Christians are every Lord's Day. John is being prepared for what is to be revealed to him. John is on earth, in the spirit, on the Lord's Day. John's spirit is not in heaven until 4:2. Before this he was in the spirit and hearing God's words and seeing the vision of God and the seven candlesticks, (the seven curches). This is all John needed to see at this time.

Unless one gets "in the spirit" one will probably not understand what this verse is speaking about. When you are "in the spirit" your natural senses seem to be suspended. You see in the spirit, and see spiritual things, like visions. You hear in the realm of the spirit. It is like the gift of "discernment of spirits," but goes farther. GraceBwithU, finally a point we can agree on! Hallelujah! John is not taken to heaven, until the fourth chapter. The visions do not actually get to the day of the Lord, until John sees the 7th seal broken.

onelove said:
These are those that Christ will bring with Him at His return.

Yes, I agree. It's just that at this point they are still crying out from the grave, under the altar of which they have been sacrificed. The position of these souls is another key in understanding where they are speaking from, (not where John was). The vision is about the souls…not John or where he was.

Wow! A point all three of us almost agree on! Yes, those under the alter will be coming with Jesus, but they will be only a minority. The vast number of those He will bring will the those that died in Christ, but not martyred.

onelove said:
The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

You have obviously not read my post. There are only two comings of Christ. Nothing about the Rapture as believed by western Christianity is Biblical. The word rapture is only related to the event in 1 Thes, 4 in the fact of the dictionary meaning of the word, "gathering up".

Some people will not believe until it happens. Be prepared, oh ye of little faith in the rapture. One day, millions will disappear, just as Paul wrote, before the 70th week gets started. Call it a "theory" if you wish, but it was no theory to Paul. Of course, the main rapture verses are written by Paul, as he was the only one to get this revelation.

onelove said:
Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

The discussion of what happens to the spirit after death is a completely different subject, actually. This thread has lead to many different discussions about Revelation that doesn’t really have anything to do with the so called “Raptureâ€Â.

I guess "where are the dead" does have bearing on the rapture, for the classic rapture verse has the dead in Christ descending from heaven with Jesus, before, or at the same time as, the dead bodies are resurrected.


Coop
 
Wow, 48 pages of mostly giberish.

Seems as though many read the books and saw the movies, (they were neat), but failed to recognize that they were just that; books and movies.

I see that there are some however that recognize fiction from reality.

We have the evidence that God has NEVER destroyed an earth FULL of the righteous, (or a city). Lot, Noah, Moses. We have the example before our very eyes. And the indication is that ONCE the last of those that follow God in truth are destroyed or sleep, then the rest are but fodder.

The LITTLE that is offered of the rapture that MATTERS is that it will happen in the 'blink of an eye'. And there is little indication that the world will EVEN NOTICE.

Are there TRULY those that believe their faith is as GREAT as those of the past that were wisked away STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN? That their understanding is 'perfect enough' to warrant redemption WITHOUT 'payment'? Hmmmmmm.......

And there are churches that teach such...............

Golly guys and gals, can I come too?

I know, it's NOT a joking matter. But it seems that many have bought into the 'joke'. Dreaming or 'self hypnosis' will matter LITTLE when the TRUTH is revealed. Positive thinking is NOT perfect understanding. And faith that is misplaced is little different than NO FAITH at all, (maybe worse). For we have been warned that it would have been better had one NOT known the truth than to turn their backs on it once it has been revealed.

I believe that MANY are unaware of the meaning of this. For they fail to recognize that the entertaining of falicious thoughts IS a 'decision'. We have been told to live EACH day like it's the LAST. We ARE NOT able to prepare for that which we DON'T understand. And anyone that believes that the "Left Behind" books or movies has any bearing on understanding are choosing to 'fool themselves' into beliefs of fantasy.

MEC

MEC
 
MEC,

It's easy to come in and say what one believes isn't true; not too easy to express what one believes to be true. Eschatology and it's concepts are not exact; no one theory is correct. Even those like Walvoord admits this. So I would hardly say most of it is gibberish. It may be so, for those who don't study this branch of theology often. There are many sincere people in this very topic who spend most of the time studying Eschatology.

Would you like to take a stab at explaining what you believe about the rapture or lack of... ? I ask because I really don't understand the point of your post.

Thanks 8-)
 
The words worthy to escape all these things is significant. Not all of God's people will be ready when the rapture takes place. One shall be taken, and the other left.

THE ONES LEFT SEE THE BEAST, THEY ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. DO YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL SEE THIS BEAST?
 
by dawngordon on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:22 pm

The words worthy to escape all these things is significant. Not all of God's people will be ready when the rapture takes place. One shall be taken, and the other left.

THE ONES LEFT SEE THE BEAST, THEY ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. DO YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL SEE THIS BEAST?

Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

We are to ask for wisdom to our Heavenly Father's Word, and His guidance daily so we don't fall into those traps and snares of these end times. So lets go into the Greek text to get a better view of what this verse is saying. Why do you stand before the Son of man? You stand there for judgment. Pray that you will have the wisdom to stand against Satan, so by your words and actions you will stand there undefiled and condemned by our Lord. Pray that you will be the one to hear Him say, Well done My good and faithful servant, enter into the gates of heaven. Many will stand before Christ in shame, and Jesus will say to them, "Get away from me, I know you not."

The subject for this entire hour of temptation is being deceived. Do you consider it a blessing when you are not deceived, or does it make any difference to you? the purpose of this chapter is to keep you from being deceived by those that come in Christ's name peddling their false doctrines and traditions that go against God's Word. So if Satan says that he is Christ, and your pastor and denomination tell you that the man in Jerusalem is Christ, and Satan does and says the things you expect Christ to do, will you follow your pastor and bow to that fake? That is the test and trial for this time. Can you be tempted when your family, your church, your friends tell you Satan is Christ, and to top it all off, when you see supernatural acts happening right before your eyes? Jesus is telling you to expect it.

II Thessalonians 2:1, 2 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

Paul is telling you to not be taken in by any means, and they will use every trick in the book to get you to join them.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,"

Did you get that? Before Jesus comes, there will be a massive falling away , and Satan, who is the man of sin, also called the son of perdition, will actually sit in the his temple in Jerusalem, and the entire world will believe it.

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

It is Satan who opposeth and exalteth himself above our Heavenly Father. Satan will demand that you worship him, and he will sit in his temple in Jerusalem and do and say the things to try and make you believe it. He will try to appear as you think Jesus ought to appear. I hope that in that day when Satan arrives, instead of being tempted in worshipping him, that you would find him the abomination that he is. That is why you will have your gospel armor on and in place to make a stand and be ready for those spiritual battles.

Some people are so biblically illiterate that they will try to tell you that this 36th verse is all about the rapture theory. But it doesn't say that, but the Greek is very specific, "That you stand before Christ at the judgment." You stand before Christ, after these things have come to pass. Then you will be judged by what you did while Satan was in the temple pretending to be God. Did you go to Satan and bow to him, or did you stand your ground? Be prepared to speak up when their lies and deceit are spoken to you. So now stop and think for a moment, why do you put your gospel armor on in the first place? You put on the gospel armor for the sole purpose of making a stand and defending yourself from those fiery darts of Satan's lies. Take the time an study Ephesians 6:10-20. Jesus is telling you to ask Father, pray for the wisdom so that you can be accountable on that day of Jesus' return.

Now lets look at the one taken and the one left

There is a great repetitive and common theme all throughout Biblical end-time prophecy regarding 'two's;' Two events, one an imitation of the other and one before the other:


Luke 17:34 "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left."
Luke 17:35 "Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
Luke 17:36 "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

The Holy Spirit has directed our attention to the fact that what is being spoken of has to with satan by saying "in that night." The night precedes the day, the night gives way to the day, the darkness is removed by the light, satan (antichrist) precedes Jesus (true Christ), Jesus removes satan into the Pit. We know that women do not grind grain in the night and we know that the men do not work in the field in the dark. Okay, now is where we get to the meat of the Scripture. In the verses prior to this we learned that we are to remain steadfast and faithful to God. Now we are told what becomes of those who did not remain faithful.

The rapurist say that those taken were Raptured. but in reality, those taken are taken in deception, they have fallen off and worshipped the imposter savior, the antichrist. one shall be taken = Taken by deception, taken in to worship the wrong messiah, the false messiah, the antichrist. the other shall be left = Left working in the field (the world), left to continue serving God faithfully all the way up to the return of the true Messiah Jesus Christ at His Second Advent - no Rapture! Let's see what happens to those who follow antichrist

Luke 17:37 "And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Whosoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Body = Greek word #4983 soma = a dead body or a Corpse (see Mt 27:59). #2 Eagles: #105 aetos = Vultures (see Mt 24:28 {carcass}). From the Thayer's Greek Lexicon: Greek word #105 aetos = an eagle (KJV): Since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this probably refers to a vulture which resembled an eagle.

***The actual word "Vultures" is used here in the NIV, NASB, NAU, and the Living Bible translations.

Those 'taken' first are taken to the place of corpses, dead bodies and vultures! yet the Rapture teachers will tell you: "Glory! Hallelujah!, I want to be the first taken, Rapture me away." -- This death is speaking of a spiritual death, those who deaden their souls by following the wrong messiah. They have allowed themselves to be deceived by satan's Rapture doctrine and they will be found with child {Mat 24:19} when the true Husband Jesus Christ returns for the wedding {Rev 19:7}.

Look at it this way, if the Husband (Christ) returns from a long journey (2000 years) and finds his wife (the Church) pregnant, then His wife has betrayed Him by going after another husband (antichrist) who was not here first love, and there has been some abominable activity (apostasy) going on in which she became impregnated and defiled by. (naturally, once again, this is speaking spiritually).

That is also why Paul said he wanted to present you as a virgin

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give $uck in those days!

Many don't know the true meaning to this verse,they think it will be such a bad time that it will be hard to be with a child,but thats not it at all.To be with child means you have not remained a virgin to Christ.
 
Nope Vic,

You've made it clear that you would NOT take kindly to what I have to offer in explanation of 'rapture'.

But I will offer this: We have been WARNED not to 'take up' with fantasy and fairy tales. We ARE to focus on that which matters MOST, (not least).

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Nope Vic,

You've made it clear that you would NOT take kindly to what I have to offer in explanation of 'rapture'.

But I will offer this: We have been WARNED not to 'take up' with fantasy and fairy tales. We ARE to focus on that which matters MOST, (not least).

MEC

Fairy tales: A fictitious, highly fanciful story or explanation. (Answers.com)

The rapture of the church is no fairy tale. It is written in God's word. It would be a fairy tale to dismiss it as a fairy tale.

Coop
 
I believe fairy tale may have been in reference to certain Rapture positions and the way they have been portrayed and merchandised in recent years. 8-) If that is true, then the use of fairy tale may be appropriate.
 
Imagican said:
Nope Vic,

You've made it clear that you would NOT take kindly to what I have to offer in explanation of 'rapture'.

But I will offer this: We have been WARNED not to 'take up' with fantasy and fairy tales. We ARE to focus on that which matters MOST, (not least).

MEC
Check your PMs. :)
 
vic C. said:
Catholic Crusader":7e992][b]A 60 Second Lesson On The Rapture: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYdC33Ulh4w said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYdC33Ulh4w[/url]
[/b]
Now I would have thought you'd to be amellinial. :-D[/quote:7e992]
Well, now that I think about it, you are right. I rooted through my old materials and remembered that as far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position. In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught."

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, but we do not use the word "rapture" to refer to this event, although, ironically, the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17â€â€"we will be caught up," - Latin: rapiemur.
 
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