Growth The Sabbath and which day is it on?

[His_nee (Jeff)]

.... sigh..... how hard is it to just read the Word of God and trust Him ?
the millennial rest may be great some day, totally in line with all of Scripture, for some people (not all by far).

the Sabbath is the seventh day of every week.
this has not changed in 6000 years.
the calendar has gone through 12 or more changes, give or take,
but the seventh day has never changed and will not.

so simply put - it is a commandment. an unchanged, unchanging commandment. the Word of God.
the enemy has brought centuries of confusion about much of God's Word,
but he has not been allowed to change the sabbath day for the ekklesia. (only as it is written he changed it for the world and for the world church).

 

[JLB]

.... sigh..... how hard is it to just read the Word of God and trust Him ?
the millennial rest may be great some day, totally in line with all of Scripture, for some people (not all by far).

the Sabbath is the seventh day of every week.
this has not changed in 6000 years.
the calendar has gone through 12 or more changes, give or take,
but the seventh day has never changed and will not.

so simply put - it is a commandment. an unchanged, unchanging commandment. the Word of God.
the enemy has brought centuries of confusion about much of God's Word,
but he has not been allowed to change the sabbath day for the ekklesia. (only as it is written he changed it for the world and for the world church).

Did you understand what I said, and how the Sabbath points to the Rest we will enjoy when He returns?


JLB

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I don't know if i understand or not. I went back and looked at your post and yes you say the Sabbath rest points to the Rest we will enjoy when He returns,
but at first read, since you said man needs a day a week to rest, that is not what the commandment says , while potentially not contradicting the commandment.
a lot of people twist it to any day they pick to rest. God have mercy, He knows all things so He may permit that for a time , but He never says in His Word that people may choose what day is to be the Sabbath.
that connection / common use of "a day of rest" among believers who don't honor the Sabbath was what I wasn't sure of for your post.

 

[JLB]

I don't know if i understand or not. I went back and looked at your post and yes you say the Sabbath rest points to the Rest we will enjoy when He returns,
but at first read, since you said man needs a day a week to rest, that is not what the commandment says , while potentially not contradicting the commandment.
a lot of people twist it to any day they pick to rest. God have mercy, He knows all things so He may permit that for a time , but He never says in His Word that people may choose what day is to be the Sabbath.
that connection / common use of "a day of rest" among believers who don't honor the Sabbath was what I wasn't sure of for your post.

The are 7 days to a week, 6 days are for work and on the 7th day we are to rest.

This truth points us to the 1000 year Day of Rest, whereby we will cease from the struggle that continues with the spirit at opposition with the flesh, for on that Day we will have ceased from that continual opposition because we will have our resurrected bodies that will never die.

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

This will truly be a time of Rest.

A day to the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day.

The Millennium with be the 7th Prophetic Day.

It has been 6000 years from Adam to present.

We are coming up on the 7000th year soon.

The seventh day is the Sabbath.


JLB

 

[TOG]

Certainly, but Paul specifically mentions:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Colossians 2:16-17 NIV

At the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, Christianity was still a sect within Judaism. The Colossians were Pagan Gentiles who had converted to the Christian sect of Judaism. Before they became Christians, they would have kept the traditions associated with their Pagan religion, but after they converted, they would have kept the Biblical commandments, including the Sabbath and annual festivals, although they didn't keep all of the Pharisaic additions to the Law. I think Paul is most likely talking about their Pagan friends judging them for being "different" from the rest of the Pagan society in which they lived. A Pagan society wouldn't judge them for not keeping the 7th day Sabbath or Passover, but Pagans would likely judge them for keeping those days rather than the Pagan days of worship and Pagan festivals that everybody else observed.

The TOG​

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

later, pagans did judge and convict and execute those who trust Yeshua and lived His Life as ekklesia. from 300+/- a.d. to the present there have been executions, persecutions, tortures, and mockery
of those who follow Jesus by the pagan rulers in politics and in religion(the world church and her children).

it is written that honoring the Sabbath is a signpost/ banner/ over ekklesia who belong to Yhwh in Yeshua, especially in the book of Revelation I think.... (will try to look it up).....
and the world and the beast hates us who obey Yeshua and trust in Him. in the untied states this is very uncommon as so many are simply doing what they think is right in their own sight, but in some other countries (africa, china, russia)
where, btw, the believers are PRAYING FOR AMERICA and sending missionaries TO US!! (because america is so naked and blind and wretched in their sight concerning faith in God and living His Way),
in those other countries, where the wicked obviously rule, the believers go into hiding, yet are executed or imprisoned when found out.....
yet their neighbors and friends and family and strangers observing their life SEE THE DIFFERENCE - the radical difference in their lives than in the lives they used to live while they were pagan, and the difference in their Christian lives VS the pagan lives of monks, roman cthlics, buddhists, communists, etc etc etc ....

and with great rejoicing indeed and in truth, some of the pagan observers ARE CONVERTED and become immersed in Yeshua "without a word" seeing the holy(set apart) lives of the believers and the result and power of the Eternal God and the Savior Jesus Christ in their lives. ! "they have been with God" or "God dwells with them" has been observed by 'outsiders' watching them.

 

[JLB]

At the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, Christianity was still a sect within Judaism. The Colossians were Pagan Gentiles who had converted to the Christian sect of Judaism. Before they became Christians, they would have kept the traditions associated with their Pagan religion, but after they converted, they would have kept the Biblical commandments, including the Sabbath and annual festivals, although they didn't keep all of the Pharisaic additions to the Law. I think Paul is most likely talking about their Pagan friends judging them for being "different" from the rest of the Pagan society in which they lived. A Pagan society wouldn't judge them for not keeping the 7th day Sabbath or Passover, but Pagans would likely judge them for keeping those days rather than the Pagan days of worship and Pagan festivals that everybody else observed.

The TOG​

Or...

The Judaizers that Paul was continually warning His Churches, not to became ensnared with, as the Galatians were, is the point of his admonition to the Church at Colossae.

This is much more in line with the verdict from the Jurusalem Council in Acts 15 that states -

"You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment


JLB

 

[JLB]

The children of Israel were told by the Lord to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day, not necessarily on the eve of the sixth day to the eve of the seventh day.

23 Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' " 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, there will be none." Exodus 16:23-26

JLB

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

the babies, the infants, the toddlers, the youngsters, the pre-teens, the teens, the adolescents , the young men, the adults, the grandparents, everyone in Israel recognizes the Sabbath simple plain and clear the same as they have for thousands of years.

the Sabbath always has started at sunset on the sixth day, and goes to sunset on the seventh day, and is a day Yhwh said is holy (set apart) to Himself.

 

[JLB]

the babies, the infants, the toddlers, the youngsters, the pre-teens, the teens, the adolescents , the young men, the adults, the grandparents, everyone in Israel recognizes the Sabbath simple plain and clear the same as they have for thousands of years.

the Sabbath always has started at sunset on the sixth day, and goes to sunset on the seventh day, and is a day Yhwh said is holy (set apart) to Himself.

The account in Exodus 16 seems to teach that they did not observe the Sabbath requirement on the evening of the day before, but rather it says - and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning


Please refer to my post number 2

Friday evening and Saturday till sundown.

This would be true of everyday, not just the Sabbath, as the word says So the evening and the morning were the first day.



However the Exodus 16 seems to teach different - 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

It doesn't say, Today at sundown is a Sabbath rest...

or

lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until today at sundown.


Can you see my point?


JLB

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

yes. no worries. the Jews understand it also. right now it is 330pm where i am residing. today lasts until about 8:18pm, Jewish/Israel wise.
Tomorrow starts when today ends, at 8:18pm.
simple.

Yesterday, the Jewish and the believers in Yeshua who honor Sabbath prepared meals before Sabbath began. at 330pm yesterday, they would be preparing their meals, as they have for thousands of years, for 'tomorrow' , Shabbat that started at sunset 6th day yesterday.

simple. 'tomorrow' - the start of a new day, starts at sunset.

if in anything i got this wrong, after sunset tonight, check with an Israelite.

 

[Michael74]

I think Paul is most likely talking about their Pagan friends judging them for...keeping the 7th day Sabbath or Passover...

Paul didn't tell them not to be concerned about the ostracism of pagans, Paul told them not to let anyone judge them. Early Christians would have known that pagans had no spiritual authority to judge them. They would only have been concerned about what fellow Christians were teaching:

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? Galatians 2:14 NIV

 

[Michael74]

The apostles and elders heard about those (Jewish converts?) who were troubling the minds of Gentile converts, by demanding that Gentile converts follow Jewish customs.

The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. Acts 15:23a-24 NIV

The apostles sent this letter to them, explaining what was required of them:

It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Acts 15:28-29a NIV

This is consistent with Paul's admonition not to let anyone judge them about holidays.

 

[TOG]

Paul didn't tell them not to be concerned about the ostracism of pagans, Paul told them not to let anyone judge them. Early Christians would have known that pagans had no spiritual authority to judge them. They would only have been concerned about what fellow Christians were teaching:

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? Galatians 2:14 NIV

People don't judge others for being the same, but for being different. The Colossians lived in a Pagan society. If they had not been keeping the Sabbath, they would have been just the same as the rest in that respect, and nobody would have judged them for it. But if they had been keeping the Sabbath, that would have made them "different", and others would have judged them for it.

The TOG​

 

[Michael74]

Okay, you think the Colossians were concerned about what their pagan neighbors thought of them, and I think they were concerned about what Jewish converts to Christianity were telling them, as related in Acts. I don't know how to conclusively prove my position to you from the text, so we can agree to amicably disagree.

 

[JLB]

People don't judge others for being the same, but for being different. The Colossians lived in a Pagan society. If they had not been keeping the Sabbath, they would have been just the same as the rest in that respect, and nobody would have judged them for it. But if they had been keeping the Sabbath, that would have made them "different", and others would have judged them for it.

The TOG​

Exactly.

The Judaizers wanted the Gentile Christians to be like them and keep the law of Moses and be Circumcised.

The language of Paul's letters to them encourages them in the truth, rather than fall prey to the fleshly doctrines of men, such as circumcision and the keeping of feast days which were a shadow of things to come, but as Paul encourages them; The substance is Christ.

Key phrases in Paul's letter that show us the Colossians were being influenced by the Judaizers -

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

• This phrase says - guys you don't need to be physically circumcised in the flesh!

Why would pagans be influencing the Gentile Christians to be circumcised?

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

• This says guys Christ is the reality of those feast days and Sabbaths and all the ordinances have been nailed to the cross.

I doubt the Colossian Church was being influenced by pagans to be Circumcised and keep feast days.


JLB

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I don't believe sabbath means 'return to the cross' ever, in any place in Scripture. (nor in any Jewish writings or meanings I've ever heard of or heard referenced. If some group used that phrase, I would test it thoroughly, as it sounds out of order with the rest of Hebrew life and Scripture and knowledge that I've learned or read or saw and also
out of order with Yhwh and Yeshua personally.

You need to study the ancient Hebrew. The word Sabbath means to "return to the covenant" or "return to the cross."

 

[TOG]

Okay, you think the Colossians were concerned about what their pagan neighbors thought of them, and I think they were concerned about what Jewish converts to Christianity were telling them, as related in Acts. I don't know how to conclusively prove my position to you from the text, so we can agree to amicably disagree.

I don't think "they were concerned about" the Pagans, I just think that they were the ones that were there. Although it had been important before, by the time Paul wrote his epistle, Colossai was a small, insignificant town. (Source) Jews and others not from that area would have had little reason to go there. And although we don't have any census data from that time, because of these things, I believe that there were probably few if any Jews living in that area (with the exception of the Christians who, like I said before, were still considered a sect of Judaism at that time). There simply would have been no Jews there to judge them.

The TOG​

 

[Kevin]

Michael is right. If someone really feels the need to keep a certain day to God then he should do it. Or if someone has faith that every day is alike then that's between him and God. This is not a topic to judge one another on (and the Bible agrees).

Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

What you eat, what you drink, or what days you keep (if any) these are just shadows of things to come and not the things themselves. Let's not be too evangelical on our position of these things lest we lay a stumblingblock before our brothers.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

You need to study the ancient Hebrew. The word Sabbath means to "return to the covenant" or "return to the cross."

I've studied Sabbath more than anyone else I've met, and checked with Jewish believers and non-Jewish, and Jewish Orthodox, for many years.
the only site I could find (in a not too long search) that looks close to what you are saying is the grafted in fellowship king george site, and they are not reliable.