The Scriptures and Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by K2CHRIST, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    That is not what that verse is saying. The context is that of preaching the gospel:

    Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? (ESV)
     
  2. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    The good new, the Gospel, is that we can get to God personally though Jesus Christ, our savior. It is not that we have the Bible. The Bible explains we have Jesus Christ, and that His sheep hear His voice. Now how is someone going to know this if we don't tell them that?

    So we preach Jesus Christ. But if you yourself do not know Jesus Christ, how can you believe? You can't. And that is exactly what is explained in the verses you quoted. Look at what you have quoted!

    1- How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?

    Notice it is a question, not a statement of fact! In general, nobody is going to call on Jesus if they don't believe He is there to answer them. I believe so I call on Him and expect to hear from Him, and do. But what about the fist time? For the first time, perhaps if someone tells me that He will answer if I call on Him I might try it, even if I don't really believe them. That is why it is a question and not a statement of fact, like you are supposing it is. Paul is obviously encouraging people to call on Jesus Christ(not the Bible), and at the same time trying to get people to to preach Jesus Christ, not the Scriptures!

    2- How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

    So then we are to tell them about Him and that they can call and hear from Him.

    3- And how are they to hear with out someone preaching?

    Now does this mean how are they to hear the message "Listen to Him", or does it mean how are they to hear from Him without someone bring the message. The more you study the Bible the more you get deeper understanding. The answer is both.

    What you didn't put in your post was the earlier verse discussed, which was Rm 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by a word of Christ.

    You were saying I got the meaning of that verse wrong, and quoting the other thinking those verses disproved that faith comes from hearing the small voice of Jesus Christ But it clearly says by a word of Christ!

    A Rhema word, which is an utterance or spoken word, and that it is of Christ, or some translation have it of God, not you or you preaching, but of God. The Lord speaks to them personally via the Spirit of God and that is a Rhema word of Christ or God.

    The preaching might get them to see if you are right about hearing God, but they don't really believe until they hear Him answer them!!! In the same way the Bible is able to given them wisdom that can lead to salvation which is from faith in Jesus Christ, but the wisdom to seek in not the faith but what leads to the faith!

    Now, if you look and study Rom chapter ten a bit more you will see this exact problem cover right from the being of the chapter.

    Rm 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that hey have a zeal for God, but not accordance with knowledge

    Paul was talking about Jews that were just like Him when he was on the road to Damascus. He too was zealous for God, the Scriptures, the tradition, but he didn't know God. He knew about that, so he could indeed testify about them. And can't we see there are Christians today that have a zeal for God, for the Scriptures, for the traditions of Christianity today, but do they hear His voice and call on Him?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  3. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Many people claim or have claimed to hear God speak to them. Most have been proven false.......
     
  4. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    Jesus is not the word of God, but is the life of God with all power and authority as being a light of God to the world as Gods word became flesh (Jesus) to walk amongst those He reached out to teaching them what God gave Him to speak, John 1:1-14.

    Is it Jesus who speaks or is it Gods Spirit that speaks through Him as well as the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God that speaks to us.

    Again I will repeat this: The gospel of peace that has been labeled the Holy Bible is the word of God penned by the prophets and Apostles (had others write if they could not) as they give first hand accounts of what God taught.
     
  5. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    Romans 10:17 says by the word of God. not the word of Christ as there is a big difference in who's authority is speaking.
    Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
     
  6. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    That might be true but it is not a good explanation of the gospel; it doesn't get to the heart of the matter. The gospel is that due to sin, we are separated from God, but our sins can be forgiven and we can be reconciled to God based on Jesus's death and resurrection.

    No one has said otherwise.

    I'm not sure what your point is here. Nothing you have given disagrees with what I have stated.

    Hearing from him is not at all in view of this entire passage.

    You did get the meaning wrong and now you are changing the wording ever so slightly to try and make it support what you want it to say.

    It does not "clearly say by a word of Christ," it says, depending on which version, "through the word of Christ" or "through the word about Christ," or some variation of those two. The idea in the former is that it is either the message given by Jesus or the preaching of the gospel through his command to "go into all the world," hence what the next verse says. In the latter, it is clearly the preaching of the gospel about Jesus.

    Any which way we look at it, it is ultimately saying that faith comes through the preaching of the gospel--that salvation is available through the work and person of Jesus. But nowhere in that verse is it implied "that faith comes from hearing the small voice of Jesus Christ."

    No, that is not what is in view. You are distorting Scripture to support your view.

    This idea is not taught anywhere in Scripture.
     
  7. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    It depends on which translation you are reading whether it reads the word of God or the word of Chirst. Jesus is God! And Jesus is a person, God the son. And Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, not read His book. The point is that it is a Rhema word, meaning an utterance. That is to say, it is something coming from His mouth, not the pen of someone else.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't read the Bible, but Jesus said only one thing was necessary, and that was doing what Mary was doing. She was listening to Him. So why don't people understand what I am saying? Isn't it because they don't hear the words of God?

    I am as clear as possible explaining that we need to listen to that small voice of God's!! That small voice of God is Jesus Christ speaking to us, via the Spirit of God. Yet people say the Bible is God talking to us. Don't they hear from the Lord? They say the Bible is alive and active. Don't they know the One speaking to us is alive and active? They say the Bible saves. Don't they know the One who can and will talk to them, Jesus Christ, is their savior?

    Is it not obvious, that they have hung their hat, so to speak, on the Scriptures instead of Jesus Christ?

    So where you read, that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, are you thinking that means reading the Bible or having a conversation with Him who speaks?

    Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks.

    Jesus Christ is Lord! That is what the Spirit of God explains. So if you think it is the Bible that speaks, and the Bible is alive and active, and faith comes from reading the Bible, and even think the Bible is Jesus Christ, you don't know Him who speaks!! He has a voice. We often call it the small voice, And He can tell you where to read in you Bible. And He can talk to you about anything, not just the Bible. And if you know Him, you would know this!

    He once ask me to open my Bible to Ezekiel 3 and read. So He was not the writings, but the One asking me to read and telling me where. He is my Lord. And I read, and He started talking to Me and was telling me He was having me do like Ezekiel. He was sending me to those who should listen, but they would be unwilling to listen to me, because they are unwilling to listen to Him.

    Ez 3:6,7 But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet they the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israelis stubborn and obstinate.

    So why do you not understand that reading the Bible is not listening to Jesus Christ? Why do you not understand that it is not reading the Bible that gives you faith, but knowing and talking to the Lord that gives you faith to believe that He really is the Lord our God and is always with you like it is written? How do you not understand that the Bible is the sacred writings that are trying to get you to seek Him, but they are not Him?

    Is it not because you are searching the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, instead of seeking the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life? Faith does not come from the Scriptures. Faith comes from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, Faith comes from talking with Him, my friends.

    And as "Christians", you should be my friend because we should have the same friend, Jesus Christ, you we are walking and talking with. But if you refuse to be His friend, how are you going to be my friend, because I love talking about Him, my friend who walks and talks with me. He says such interesting things. He tells me parables. He gives me wisdom. He helps me with my work. He tells me He loves me. He is clearly not the Bible, but He is all the Bible explains He is. And if you really knew Him, you would know what I am talking about. He talks with you ever day and tells you allsorts of things.

    Below I put a parable He told me. He has given me at least a hundred parable, and many more little sayings. But, "I love you" is the most common thing I heard. And He gives me instructions as to where to go and when, everyday. Again, the point is that we need to listen to Him who speaks personally to you. The parable is just a personal example I am sharing to that you might understand.



    " There once was an animal that lived in the dark. All its life it had lived in the dark cave. It knew there were other things that lived in the cave with him, but because it couldn’t see them, it didn’t know how big they were. After a while it got to thinking it was the biggest animal in the dark. It was certain that it was strong, big, and knew all it needed to know.

    Then there came a rumbling. The noise slowly grew.

    AHH…….. CHOOO!!!

    Instantly, with a strong wind, it was blown out of the cave. In the light it could see that he was just a microbe. Wow, he was so small.

    After a little while it realized that it was ok that it was a microbe, because even a microbe has a purpose.

    When you see that there are angels out there and God out there, how big are you really? But it’s ok, because even you have a purpose!"
     
  8. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    You are missing the whole point. The Bible is made up of letters that the prophets and Apostles have written as they witness and testify of what God has already spoken to them as in many pars they Quote God in the OT and Christ in the NT.

    There are more than just one way to hear God speak to us and that is literally hearing His voice and also by what He has already spoken and given as the prophets and Apostles echo His voice by writing down what He has already said.

    I do believe that reading what Christ has already said is listening to him and understanding what He has said. No, the Bible does not give us faith, but teaches us what faith is in Christ Jesus just as well as it teaches us about the Spiritual rebirth. Things are asked for before one understands what they mean, but yet belief leads to faith and faith to that of Christ without reading the word, but better understood after the fact of accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

    The scriptures do not give us eternal life, but teaches us hw to receive eternal life as all things come by Christ alone. Don't think that I or anyone else do not walk and talk with Jesus as my relationship with Him is very personal as we talk to each other everyday and the Holy Spirit guides me in all things.
     
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  9. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Yes, this is of course correct. They heard the Lord. And much of what they wrote was what they heard. They also reasoned and referenced what prior writers had heard from the Lord. There is of course other information, like history, and what others said also. Like Satan, Satan is also quoted in the Scriptures. So are the Scriptures, "The Word of God"? And Satan's words God's words also, because they are also in the Scriptures? So what you have are the sacred writings, and they writings are good to study, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOD SPEAKING TO YOU!
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  10. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Without getting too much into semantics: speak and spoken are not the same. Speak is a present tense and spoke is a past sense. Also to say that something God spoke to someone else is the same as Him speak to you, is not correct. So is there more than one way to hear God speak to us??? No, He either speaks to us or He doesn't. There are however many ways God can communicate with us. Faith comes from hearing from Him. So reading what Christ has already said in not listening to him and even more so if He was talking to someone else. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't read what Christ has already said, it just means it is not the same thing.


    So except for thinking reading what Christ said is listening to him, the above is correctly said. Some of it is simply semantics, though. If you want to call reading 'listening', ok but it is poor communication. But it is not the semantics that I am concerned with, but our actually seeking and listening to Him. I don't really care that you call reading the Bible, listening to Him, if you understand you still need to listen to Him and the reading is not the same as the listening to Him. But I am concern that you and others seek Him and His voice.

    Now why would you tell me not to think that anyone else do not walk and talk with Jesus, when we know that not everyone does???

    Jesus told the Jews they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life. People have written on this site that the Scriptures do give us life. They have written that the Bible is Christ. You have written that reading the Bible is listening to Him. Ok, maybe you do walk and talk with Him, But how then do you come to write that reading the Scriptures is listening to Him? It doesn't make any sense to me. He so often tells me to read this verse or that chapter, and then talks to me about what I read, so His talking to me is not what I read, but what He speaks is to read and about what I read.

    It's like taking a class and having the teacher tell you to open up your textbook and then covers the things written in the text book. Well, the text book is not the teacher talking to me, but the words the teacher says about the textbook is what the teacher speaks. And I don't see how anyone could confuse that.

    So what we have, at best, is a lot of confusion. And we also have a lot of Christians that do not hear Him speak to them. Like in the past, they search the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life. Or why else do I often run into people saying that Bible give life. Why I have seen where a song is being song say the Bible is the Word of God and it gives us eternal life. So perhaps you don't believe that, but some do, and that is a concern if they have got it wrong!! At least it is a concern if I care about them. But you are telling me not to think anyone else do not walk and talk with Him. That is extremely poor advice. Not everyone knows the Lord. Not everyone has salvation!
     
  11. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    When I talk to people about a class in school they are taking, they never confuse listening to the teacher with read the text book. Listening to the teacher is not reading the textbook, never.

    If I talk to someone about a book they read, they might go 'the book says', and/or 'they author says'. But they don't say they were listening to the author, never.

    And they don't think the book they are reading is alive. They don't believe the book can think. They don't think the book can take action, like save a person from drowning. They don't confuse the author of the book with the book. The writer of books use the books they write to communicate something with their audience, but that method of communication is not referred to as speaking, even if we might go, 'the book says', or the author says'.

    So if a person tells me, 'the Bible says' I don't have a problem with it. I know what they mean. But if they say 'the Bible is alive', I wonder. Clearly the Bible is not alive but our Lord Jesus Christ lives.

    Now if the Bible Jesus Christ is called the Word of God. According to the Bible, that is His name!! Yet also, according to the Bible, the Scriptures are not Him! We see that in John where Jesus explained that people were searching the Scriptures for life instead of coming to Him. We also see that in Galatians where the Scriptures kept people under sin until we could be save by faith in Jesus Christ. But we should understand that without reading, by the same reason that we know a teacher is not a book.

    Now today, in Christianity, we tend to call the Scriptures, your Bible, The Word of God. So we call both Jesus Christ and the Scriptures by the same name. Ok, we can do that. It is a bit confusing, like the Abbot and Costello 'Whose on First' routine, but it can be done. The Scriptures can be called the Word of God, because God inspired it to be written. Some translations have it, God breathed it, to be written. Though people did write it, the Scriptures are clearly from God, though not all the words are God's words. Satan is also quoted, and his words are not God's words. But still, we can and do call the Bible "The Word of God" which is also the name of Jesus Christ though He is not the Scriptures.

    So we call them both 'The Word of God', and cause some confusion. So now people think the Bible is alive because it is written the Word of God is alive. And people think the Bible is active, because it is written the Word of God is active. Of course Jesus Christ is alive and active, and it is written "He" in reference to those verse; still people have confused the meaning to think the Bible is alive and active, because we tend to call it the Word of God instead of Him.

    Now, into my life comes the Lord. The first words He hear from Him are "Read You Bible" and they hit me hard, like being hit by a 2x4 in the side of the head, but my ears were opened. Now I hear from Him everyday called "Today". We talk. We can and do talk about anything and everything in my life. And He is my Lord, meaning He gives me instructions! I get instructions everyday, because He is my Lord and we talk.

    Most of the instructions are little instruction. He sometimes tells me what clothes to wear, or which lane to drive in. That is what it is mostly like. But He also has given me big instructions. He had me open up a Christian bookstore in town and then give it away after a couple of years to a pastor who owned a big building that he used for his small church and rented to other small churches. That was about 12 years ago and the Christian bookstore He told me to start is still going, but it took all the money I owned, which was for my retirement. I still get by though. That was a very big thing for me, but He told me to do it.

    So I not only heard Him tell me to read my Bible, I heard Him tell me to sell them. I am all for the Bible, but it is not Him and He told me other things too. He told me:

    "Karl, I want you to preach the Word but not as it is so often preached today, I want you to preach I AM the Word of God."

    I was in the bathroom at the time, and when He said "I Am", those two little words spoken by the still small voice of God sent me falling to the floor. I caught my balance before actually hitting the floor, but I can't now forget the instructions!

    I have heard so many other instructions that go hand in hand with that instruction. Things like:


    THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.


    WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

    He makes sense to me. And what He really wants if for people to listen to Him!!!

    If there is anything I have learned from all these years of talking with Him is that He loves people and wants to help them, if only they would seek Him and listen to Him.

    He once told me, "Karl, they call Me, ' Wonderful Counselor' and so I am. But I am not a wonderful counselor to those that don't listen to Me."

    And He tells me to do things like writing on this forum in order to get people to listen to Him. Read your Bible, because He says so, but what He really wants is for you to seek Him and what He personally has to say to you!! Isn't that what the Bible tells you?
     
  12. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    So, you mean that what Jesus spoke and was quoted by His Apostles is not hearing Him speak to us also? I do believe it is the same thing as it is all Gods Spirit speaking to us like speaking through a burning bush, a cloud and even an Ass. It's all Gods words as we even verbably quote Him and teach others by His Holy Spirit speaking through us.

    I do seek Christ apart from the written word and He always speaks to me either verbally or by His word as He does for all who seek Him as the sheep will hear His voice.

    I see your concern for others whether they are walking and talking with Christ, but you can not judge anyone on that matter as God does speak to us in many ways.

    Do you understand that the word of God is living water, meaning the words of Christ as He speaks to us by His word

    John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (Scripture speaks to us by the Holy Spirit)

    What is scripture if it is not the written word of God as it's by the Holy Spirit that gives us knowledge and understanding of the word of God, John 14:26. I can't help it if it makes no sense to you, but that is how many hear Jesus speak to them as the Holy Spirit gives conformation on what Jesus has already said.

    The Holy Spirit will lead us to certain scripture and will always speak to us as we gain knowledge and understanding of what Jesus already said. What Jesus spoke are His very words written down on paper. It's like hearing what He already said without Him verbally repeating Himself over and over to everyone who has ears to hear what the Spirit of God is saying.
     
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  13. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Of course what God said to others is not Him speaking to us!!

    It can be of great value to know what He spoke to others. We can learn from it. It can help us discern between spirits. The Spirit of God is not the only spirit about. And God speaks wisdom, whether it is for us personally or whether it was spoken to someone else.

    And we understand this, but get confused when we get zealous for the Bible instead of Jesus Christ.

    If we didn't understand this all Christians would be planning there trip to the Red Sea in order to part it. But that doesn't happen because God told Moses to part the Red Sea, not us. He told me to open and operate a Christian bookstore, which I did until He told me to give it away. Well, that instruction is not in the Bible anywhere. Should I have told God to get lost? If the Bible is the living and active Word of God, I would have told the living and active Word of God to get lost.

    But I am zealous for the One who speaks to me. I call Him Lord. Obviously I call Him Lord because He gives me instructions which I do. That makes Him my Lord. And so to me, He is also the Word of God, because I believe He is God. I believe He is the Word that was int he beginning with God, is God, and who took on flesh and died for me. And He rose again; which explains why Him and I can be friends. I find Him (speaking to me) in my heart and sometimes on my lips. So I am not saying He didn't he is still dead, and I am not saying He is in some far away placed called heaven, because I find Him in my midst.

    If I was saying He was dead or in some far away place called heaven, and not near me, then perhaps I too would be looking to the Bible for my personal instructions. I don't do that. I do look to the Bible to learn from, but not for my personal instructions. I look the my Lord for my personal instructions. That was why I did open the Christian bookstore, then give it away. It is also the reason I go to the church I do. I wanted to go to a small very spirit filled church not too far away, but He wanted me to go to a big rather conservative spirit filled church close to me that is closer to me. So even the church I attend was decided by Him. Both are good Christian churches, but for me the best one to go to is not the one I wanted but the one He wanted. He told me that.

    So how is it His people still don't understand that a relationship with the living God whom we called Lord, is just that, a relationship with God??

    The Bible does not give me that relationships! Talking to my Lord, gives me that relationship!!

    The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord", and clearly people get this backwards!!

    People; Jesus Christ is the living and active Word of God that we are preaching!! He is called the Word of God because He personally want to, and does, talk to us, if we will listen! And that is why the Father said, "This is My Son in whom I am well-pleased; LISTEN TO HIM!"

    So the Scriptures are a great tool to show people that they can get to know, personally, Jesus Christ!

    There are great writings, verses, in the Bible to use to show that!

    He stands at the door and knocks if anyone hears His voice an opens the door... (Rev 19:13)


    Yet also, there are verses like:
    Ps 106:24,25 ... They did not believe in His word, But they grumbled in their tents; They did not listen to the voice of the Lord

    BTW - The above verse does not mean they not believe the Bible so they did not read the Bible. It was referring to the people Moses brought into the desert and stood at the foot of the mountain of God and said "Let not God speak to us" after He spoke to them from the mountain. So it had nothing to do with reading the Sacred writings.

    So what is this about reading the Bible being the same as Him speaking to us? Of course that is wrong. He speaks to us.. and I do mean us, but are we listening or are we saying, "let not God speak to us?"
     
  14. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    The Bible goes over different levels of faith and also something about being dull of hearing:

    Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

    What does "dull of hearing" look like?

    Those who wrote the Bible headr words from the Lord and wrote them down. Those words were words they heard, of course. Not us; we didn't hear them, but we can read them. They are not spoken to us though, we are just reading the words God spoke to them. So we know, because they heard words from God, that we should be able to hear words when God speaks to us. So if we are not "dull of hearing" then we will actually hear the voice of the Lord speaking to us. He can talk to us about the Bible; either during, before, or after we read the Bible. At of course about anything else in our life also.

    Yet what I get from talking to many Christians, is that they feel the Spirit is talking to them as they read the Bible. That is probably correct. The Spirit of God is not the only spirit around, but it certainly would not be surprising and maybe even expected, that the Holy Spirit would talk to you when you read the Bible. If you are "Dull of hearing", you might feel you are getting something, but if dull of hearing you might not actually hear the words God speaks to you but rather an impression or understanding about something in the Bible. Perhaps you read something and you "feel" God is telling you something personal. He probably is, but if you "feel" and don't hear words like those who wrote the Bible, are you not "Dull of hearing?"

    Can you be honest with yourself? Can you see that the Scriptures are correct, and that being "Dull of hearing, was and so still is a problem?

    If you can see that problem in yourself, then it becomes clear that you need to work on you hearing the voice of the Lord! Perhaps if you practice hearing from Him, more and more? After all, if you want to get better at playing a piano, you practice. So perhaps if you practice seeking the voice of the Lord and hearing what He has to say to you all through the day, His spiritual voice will come across better?

    Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern...

    Yeah, there it is. ...Practice.... Practice seeking and hearing what the Lord has to say, and then perhaps, for me, it won't be so hard to explain and I won't have so much to say about Him?

    Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  15. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    You will never convince me that I do not hear the voice of the Lord speak to me by His written word as I hear Him speak in many different ways as He instructs me in all things I place before Him. Whether verbally or through His written word I adhere to His voice speaking and guiding me. Many times I have spoken to Him and He has answered me by guiding me to a certain scripture that has always answered my question to Him. If that is not God speaking to me then I do not know what is.
     
  16. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Member

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    I believe what K2 is trying to say is maybe what Jesus said about the pharisees.....

    It is jot wrong to read the scriptures to find Christ......
    However you can read the scriptures and not find Christ as the pharisees did.
    They knew The OT better than anyone but didnt see the son of God......

    This is what Jesus said
    John 5:39
    You search the scriptures..to find eternal life
    The scripture testifies to Me.......
    Scripture is for encouragement and correction.....
    2 timothy 3:16
    OT written for our encouragement and guidance
    Romans 15:4

    Maybe the discussion should be does God still speak to us the same way He spoke
    To abraham, daniel, david, samuel.....paul Jesus. peter.....

    I will agree we need to focus more on the personal voice of God in our life ....
    And becoming a house of prayer......wo dismissing the scriptures......
    Matthew 21:13

    Only through seeking God through prayer can we find salvation.....
    Jeremiah 29:13
     
  17. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    657
    He certainly will instruct us in different ways. He has lots of ways of communicating with people, but He voice is one way, not every way He communicates with us.

    So yes, He was the person that got those people who wrote the Bible to write it. And since He did that He must have had a reason to do it. He must certainly wanted people to read it. So obviously the Scriptures are a way God uses to communicate with people, but it is not God speaking to you. That is a personal way, where as the Scriptures are written to all people. And whether you are convinced or not, God does personally speak to people, which is not the Scriptures. He can quote you a Scripture. He can tell you what Scripture verses He wants you to read. And He can and will certainly talk to you about the Scriptures. But the Scriptures are not Him talking to you, though He does communicate many things to people through the Scriptures.

    What doesn't make sense to me is why people get this wrong. I can't figure how anyone who has conversation with the Lord can think reading is hearing His voice. It is like picking up any book to read and thinking that is the same as hearing the author speaking to you. If the author was in the same room with you and did speak to you, you could certainly recognize that hearing him speak to you is not the same as reading his book. And Jesus is in the same room with you and Jesus does speak to you.

    The only thing I can come up with is that people can be so dull of hearing with their spiritual ears that they just can't actually hear Him speaking to them in words, like those who wrote the Bible did. That can happen, because God is spirit and His words are spirit, not sound waves. If that is the case you would have to say they are either dull of hearing, or say that with their ears they don't hear. Both of those things are discussed in the Bible.

    And I admit that often I am not paying much attention to Him, so that I also pick up what He is saying to me more like an unction than words. When that happens, I turn back to Him and ask, "Lord, did you say ..??" to find out if I got it correctly. And since I, like everyone, hear by faith, there are things I have a hard time picking up because I lack the faith to believe I can hear from Him on some things. Names are a good example. I personally have a hard time believing I can hear someone's name from Him. As a result, I am dull of hearing when it comes to names. I often get something about their personality when trying to pickup their name from the Lord.
     
  18. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    657
    The above is pretty much correct. It is written that the Scriptures can give you wisdom that leads to salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. So you don't actually find Christ in the Scriptures, but you do find the wisdom that leads to Him by faith. That is explained. Jesus Christ is in us, not the Bible. We are the temple or house of God, not the Bible. So we find the Word of God on our lips and in our hearts. That is were to find Him, just like Bible explains.

    So if I am seeking the voice of the Lord, I find Him talking to me from inside me. Therefore, I can read the Bible and ask Him about it. Or I can ask Him where to read in my Bible. Of I can ask Him about the meaning of what is written in the Bible. And I find the Word is near me. The Word I am talking about is not in the pages but in me. Still, the first words I ever heard from Him were, "Read Your Bible." So I know He asks people to do that. It is good advice from God, but the reading is not the same as the hearing.
     
  19. Justicewolf

    Justicewolf Member

    Joined:
    Sunday
    Messages:
    130
    That is not true in the least.
     
  20. Justicewolf

    Justicewolf Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I don't see how union with God and his word can cause such a claim as that which says, the bible is Jesus.
    That is making an idol of a man made work or book, in this case. Bible worship.

    The bible did not exist in the beginning.It did not exist until man invented the printing press.

    The Word is God that did exist in the beginning. And predestined us as his sons and daughters to be within his grace. And in the eternal blood covenant his only begotten son sealed for all time unto the end when he was sacrificed on the cross.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    If the bible is Jesus then man, that invented the bible by electing the canon and printing and binding it after the printing press was invented created Jesus. This is not defended by God's own words. He would not defer to a bound compendium as pre-existing himself.

    In the beginning was God.
    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
     
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