The sons of God and daughters of men?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by new covenant preacher, Sep 2, 2017.

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  1. chessman

    chessman Member

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    You've not shown from Scripture where the sons of God were a reference to angels. Even though that was my first question to you and after repeated requests.
     
  2. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Answered and have at least twice where sons of God were a reference to angels.
     
  3. new covenant preacher

    new covenant preacher Member

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    Wow So Well said, do you mind if I copy some of that Brilliant Thanks!
     
  4. new covenant preacher

    new covenant preacher Member

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    Wow unbelievable!!
     
  5. new covenant preacher

    new covenant preacher Member

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    Just curious should we not follow the teachings of Jesus??
     
  6. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Believe it.
     
  7. JLB

    JLB Member

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    I have repeatedly answered the question.


    Sons of God in the Old Testament referred to angels.

    • Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. Job 1:6


    • When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7


    • nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36


    Jude associates the angels who left the spirit world and engaged in forbidden sexual immorality, with that of the immoral sexual behavior of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    • And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7





    • There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


    Peter also refers to these sons of God as angels, referring to the time of Noah.

    For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4

    and again

    by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
    1 Peter 3:19-20




    • The only way for a human to become a son of God is to be born again; Born of the Spirit.

    3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
    4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
    5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:3-6

    • and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


    You now have the burden of showing scripture from the old testament, that there were sons of God in the lineage of Adam.



    JLB
     
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  8. Edward

    Edward Member

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    That is an answer, with scripture backup. Yet it is not being received. This does not mean that it is not truth, it means that some have hardened their heart to being able to receive it.
     
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  9. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Yes sir.

    Not only that, it is frightening that someone would twist the scripture for far, to try and say that Adam's offspring were son's of God, because Adam was declared a son of God because the Lord created him and breathed His Spirit of Life into him directly.


    Not so with Adam's offspring, who were plainly called sons of men, and daughters of men.

    A son of God can not be produced by being born of the flesh.

    We must be born again.

    That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

    These angels left their own abode, [the unseen spirit realm] and manifested into the natural realm as men and partook of natural relations with the daughters of men.


    Jesus said that just as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man.

    37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:37-39

    • For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,

    When we study and see who was marrying and given in marriage in the days of Noah, it becomes more clear that we are seeing today, the genetic manipulation of different species, hybrid beings, test tube embryo's...


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning

    Human cloning is the creation of a genetically identical copy of a human. The term is generally used to refer to artificial human cloning, which is the reproduction of human cells and tissue. It does not refer to the natural conception and delivery of identical twins. The possibility of human cloning has raised controversies. These ethical concerns have prompted several nations to pass laws regarding human cloning and its legality.

    Two commonly discussed types of theoretical human cloning are: therapeutic cloning and reproductive cloning. Therapeutic cloning would involve cloning cells from a human for use in medicine and transplants, and is an active area of research, but is not in medical practice anywhere in the world, as of April 2017. Two common methods of therapeutic cloning that are being researched are somatic-cell nuclear transfer and, more recently, pluripotent stem cell induction. Reproductive cloning would involve making an entire cloned human, instead of just specific cells or tissues.



    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/01/human-pig-hybrid-embryo-chimera-organs-health-science/



    JLB
     
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  10. chessman

    chessman Member

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    The above passage ⬆️ is the one I questioned you about. All you've done is state that you assume the phrase "sons of God" means angels here (and everywhere else it appears). Which is odd given:
    1) the context of Gen 6 (it never even mentions angels but rather specifically says men began to multiply),
    2) the fact that "sons of God" does not mean angels everywhere else
    3) your acknowledgement that Adam was a son of God directly made so by God (yet human not an angel)
    4) my provided evidence that Abraham and Noah and Seth (at least) were in fact heirs of God's righteousness through faith. How is this not direct creation by God or a son? It is.

    No, you've repeatedly shown your assumption that "sons of God" refers to angels even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

    This is not rocket science.
    Take the Gen 6 reference, just for an example. It does not say or even imply that angels took "wives". In fact it's impossible for an angel to take a wife. A wife is, by God's definition one woman who becomes one flesh with one man.

    Look at the passage again:

    "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives (plural) for themselves of all whom they chose"

    How do you know this is not God's record and condemnation of "sons of God" (faithful men of God) taking on multiple wives who were not similarly faithful (versus one and only one wife who was faithful to God)? You don't know it and cannot show they were angels having sex with women.

    Again, I never said (nor do I believe) that "sons of God" is a reference to the natural born offspring of Adam. I believe exactly what it says. They were sons (not angels) of God (not Adam). I've twisted no Scripture. But you carry on accusing me of it.
     
  11. Edward

    Edward Member

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    It's actually very clear about it. I didn't want to believe it, but I did quite a bit of praying about it and studying it...and the Lord kept nudging that direction until I was able to receive it. And then...so much more of the scriptures made perfect sense then! This is foundational stuff. That's why it's in Genesis, declaring the end from the beginning. Explains the so called genocides, the plot to stop Jeus from being born on earth...so much, so much.

    I still would like not to believe it. But it's not my BBQ so I have to take it as the Lord gives it to me. Instead of my old hard headed way.
     
  12. Edward

    Edward Member

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    All you Sisters out there...Me & JLB will stand up for you dear ones. Not everyone would let them take you. :hug
     
  13. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    You may use any of my studies, but be faithful how you quote them not to take anything out of context of the scriptures given. :)
     
  14. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    I'm a tough ole gal who has fought many a battle in my 62 years and God has always had my back even in those times I thought I would be killed. I do not fear death in any form.:helmet

    Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
     
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  15. Edward

    Edward Member

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    And that's why, Brothers...right there. I love girls like you! Lots of spirit! My (ex)-Wife was like that too. Help meet...Wow. God really knew what He was doing when He made woman for man. Little wonder that those fallen angels desired them.
     
  16. chessman

    chessman Member

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    Where, exactly? None of these verses say that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6 are in fact angels. That's your burden of Biblical proof.

    1.
    This verse doesn't even mention angels. Yes, Satan (the adversary, literally) is mentioned as being present "before the Lord" and among them. But not angels (plural). Once again, you are merely assuming "sons of God" are in fact angels (here and in Gen 6). But that's the assumption you need to prove, not assume. Plus, are you assuming that "before the Lord" means in Heaven???

    Looking at the context, i.e. doing Bible Study (versus assuming "sons of God" is a reference to angels), what does one find:

    Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz (not in heaven BTW) whose name was Job. That man was blameless and upright and God-fearing and turning away from evil. (There was evil in the world, not in Heaven).​

    There was a man (not an angel) who was blameless and we know what that means, right??? (Job 8:20 “Look, God will not reject the blameless). God will not reject His blameless sons for He is their God. Never has, never will.

    Leviticus 26:44 And in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies I will not reject them, and I will not abhor them to destroy them, to break my covenant with them, because I am Yahweh their God.

    8 So Yahweh said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? Indeed, there is no one like him on the earth—a blameless man and upright and God-fearing and turning away from evil.”

    The Hebrew word "servant" here literally means and is thus translated "male" 24 times in the NASB OT. Have you considered my male Job?, "My male" IS a son of God, right there in this context. And guess what, he's not an angel. Nor was Adam, nor Abraham nor Noah.

    So that's four males of God from the OT that are NOT angels; (Adam, Abraham, Noah and Job, at least) What about verse 6 then??? What does it mean (sons of God) presenting themselves before the Lord??? Notice first that there's zero mention of angels being there. Satan, the adversary, the enemy (singular) yes was there, but what about angels (plural)??? That alone should tell you that he's not taling about angels going back to Heaven. It's not written there, other than in your assumption. Who is mention and where is there???

    Job (the Lord's male, that's one) and Job's sanctified seven sons (that's eight) and Satan (who goes to/fro on the Earth). But zero mention of angels. Were Job's sons the Lord's males as well as Job??? Yes. Notice the context:

    Job 1:5 Lexham English Bible (LEB)

    5 Then when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send, and he would sanctify them (his seven sanctified sons not angels). Thus he would arise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of all of them, because Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their heart.” This is what Job used to do all the time.

    It's intuitively obvious that verse 6 follows from verse 5 and it's talking about Job and his seven sons, not angels, going before the Lord through their burnt offerings. Having just completed the "days of the feast" and being sanctified through "burnt offerings" they too were blameless. If you do a Bible study, you'll find out that God's presence is at the alter of faithful burnt offerings.

    Genesis 8:20 And Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and he took from all the clean animals and from all the clean birds, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

    Exodus 18:12 And Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God, and Aaron and all the elders of Israel came to eat bread with the father-in-law of Moses before God.

    Exodus 29:25 And you will take them from their hand and turn them to smoke on the altar beside the burnt offering as a fragrance of appeasement before Yahweh; it is an offering made by fire before Yahweh.

    etc.

    Job 1:6 isn't talking about fallen angels going back to heaven to be with the Lord nor Satan going back to Heaven (as evidently you think). It's talking about Job and his seven son's giving burnt offerings and thus being "before Yahweh" and yes Satan (their adversary/enemy being there too). But there's no mention of angels (plural) in this passage.

    2.
    Once again, no mention of angels here.

    Yahweh Interrogates Job
    4 “Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth?

    It's poetic language talking about the creation of the Earth. It has zero to do with 'angels". Once again, your assumption(s) are evident.

    3.
    Okay, at least this NT snip of a complete sentence from Jesus (written centuries after Genesis 6's context, BTW) mentions angels and "sons of God" in the same verse. But does it actually say that "they" (Sons of God) are angels or rather "they" (sons of the resurrection) are like angels in that they cannot die??? It says "they" are sons of God (faithful human, resurrected, men of God such as Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Job, Noah, etc.) are "like" the angels in that they cannot die anymore.

    Luke 20:36 (LEB) for they are not even able to die any longer, because they are like the angels and are sons of God, because they are sons of the resurrection.
    The verse literally proves my point (not yours). Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and faithful/sanctified human men like them) are the "they" in this passage (not angels). Furthermore, here's another OT list (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) that are sons of God (sons of the resurrection, heirs of righteousness through faith, blameless upright men, not angels) that are "like" angels in that they are NOT dead but living:

    34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they are not even able to die any longer, because they are like the angels and are sons of God, because they are sons of the resurrection. 37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses revealed in the passage about the bush, when he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. 38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him!”

    Do you think angels are sons of the resurrection?

    4.
    Okay, Jude says the angels left their own abode. So? How does that mean that angels are being mentioned as having sex with women and producing offspring in Gen 6??? It doesn't. Furthermore, Jude says they were reserved in everlasting chains. I thought your position was they were umm, having sex with women??? Can you explain how angels that are in everlasting chains under darkness can have sex with women?

    5.
    yes, this is the verse where you assume "sons of God" refers to angels having sex with women and offspring without any Biblical proof.
     
  17. chessman

    chessman Member

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    6.
    Again, this verse does NOT say "sons of God" are angels and it actually proves my point. Jesus had to die to go preach to the spirits in prison. If the sons of God are angels on the Earth having sex with women, then why the need to die to go to be with them in prison? Your idea is all confused.

    7.
    I agree. Bingo!:

    Genesis 6:3 And Yahweh said, “My Spirit shall not abide with humankind forever in that he is also flesh. And his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

    Who was the Spirit abiding with if not "humankind" which is Adam and Eve, BTW??? I know, let's read the next verse shall we:

    4 The Nephilim were upon the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God went into the daughters of humankind, and they bore children to them.
     
  18. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Yes men began to multiply in contrast to sons of God.

    Thanks for making my point.
     
  19. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Please explain how all flesh was wiped out but the sons of God were unaffected by the flood.


    JLB
     
  20. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Gave the scriptures and proof.

    Still waiting for the scripture that shows the offspring of Adam were called sons of God.

    Still waiting for scripture that shows us OT people were born again.


    JLB
     
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