The Two-Minute Salvation

[Jim Parker]

So what's a fundamentalist?

One who believes in: the virgin birth of Jesus, substitutionary atonement, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the Second Coming of Christ, among other doctrines.

 

[OzSpen]

One who believes in: the virgin birth of Jesus, substitutionary atonement, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the Second Coming of Christ, among other doctrines.

Do you believe those teachings? By 'literal resurrection of Christ', I presume you mean the bodily resurrection of Christ. Is that true?

To your understanding of 'fundamentalist', I would add a belief in the inspiration of the original documents of Scripture.

See also, 'What is fundamentalism?'

The 1910 Presbyterian Conference that addressed the Fundamentalist-Modernist Conflict summarised these as the 5 Fundamental points:

1. The inerrancy of the Bible
2. The virgin birth of Christ
3. Christ’s substitutionary atonement
4. Christ’s bodily resurrection
5. The authenticity of Christ’s miracles (The Fundamentalist/Modernist Conflict)

Later groups have added the Second Coming of Christ as one of the fundamentals.

How close are you to being a fundamentalist? If point 6 of the Second Coming is added, that makes me a fundamentalist in my main beliefs. However, the list suffers from inadequacy of:

(1) Not defining the nature of biblical interpretation;
(2) Not providing a description of the nature of human beings so it may be seen that they need a Saviour from sin;
(3) failure to define the content of the Gospel and the call to evangelism;
(4) failure to explain sanctification and the call to holiness;
(5) Failure to explain the Lord's Supper and baptism;
(6) Failure to proclaim the nature of the Christian life, including spiritual warfare;
etc.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

The 1910 Presbyterian Conference that addressed the Fundamentalist-Modernist Conflict summarised these as the 5 Fundamental points:

1. The inerrancy of the Bible
2. The virgin birth of Christ
3. Christ’s substitutionary atonement
4. Christ’s bodily resurrection
5. The authenticity of Christ’s miracles (The Fundamentalist/Modernist Conflict)[/QUOT

Ah! THAT's the one I was looking for!
Thank you.

How close are you to being a fundamentalist?

I'm good with the list.
I agree with #1 but I have a problem with how it works out in practice. As it is widely applied, it appears to be understood as, "My interpretation of the scriptures is inerrant."

Also, they regularly include "in the original monographs" which means that all the translations we have are NOT inerrant because the act of translation necessarily introduces error.

And now, we have to define exactly what we mean by "error." (Another thread, maybe)
My personal view of inerrancy is that I can safely bet my eternal life that what the Bible says is correct.

Later groups have added the Second Coming of Christ as one of the fundamentals.

I think that was a good addition.

However, the list suffers from inadequacy of:

It probably will continue to suffer because now you're getting into details on which the multitude of Fundamentalist denominations will hold different opinions.

jim

 

[OzSpen]

Now, Jim, that was a bit cagey placing your reply in with the quote. Let's see if I can fathom how to do this. I will copy and paste from your writing at #83.

I'm good with the list.
I agree with #1[inerrancy of Scripture] but I have a problem with how it works out in practice. As it is widely applied, it appears to be understood as, "My interpretation of the scriptures is inerrant."

Also, they regularly include "in the original monographs" which means that all the translations we have are NOT inerrant because the act of translation necessarily introduces error.

And now, we have to define exactly what we mean by "error." (Another thread, maybe)
My personal view of inerrancy is that I can safely bet my eternal life that what the Bible says is correct.

You and I know that 'interpretation of Scripture' can be a major hassle in church groups, especially small groups, because principles of interpretation (hermeneutics) is not taught often in churches. It's a long, long time since I've ever heard a preacher teach on 'How to interpret the Bible'. Unless we follow the same principles of interpretation that we use for the local newspaper, a school text book, or the Bible, we will not be able to come to a consensus of interpretation.

As for an understanding of the meaning of 'error', the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy makes a reasonable attempt to address this in point #4 of its Short Statement:

Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.

You state: 'all the translations we have are NOT inerrant because the act of translation necessarily introduces error'. This is essentially true as you and I know of the many variants in various MSS of a given NT text. We know there have been additions to the text when we compare earlier MSS with later MSS as the long ending of Mark 16:9-20 (ESV) demonstrates. There are other NT examples as well.

I came under fire in a small group last week when we were dealing with the Second Coming of Christ and I dared to mention that I don't accept a pre-tribulation rapture. That ignited a spark with one person when I mentioned Matt 24:3-14 (ESV) and she immediately jumped in with, 'How does that fit with 1 Thess 4 (ESV)?

As for 2-minute salvation, the topic of this thread, I don't think I can explain the Gospel in 2 minutes when it requires explanation of : (1) a human beings sinfulness and where that sin came from; (2) The need of a substitute to deal with sin, (3) How Jesus became that substitute by his death and resurrection, and (4) the need for personal faith in Jesus for salvation, etc.

It would take me a minimum of 30 minutes, possibly an hour. That's a long-winded Aussie's view.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

It would take me a minimum of 30 minutes, possibly an hour. That's a long-winded Aussie's view.

I think you're right. It's a rare event when someone is converted during an elevator ride to the 10th floor.

 

[OzSpen]

I think you're right. It's a rare event when someone is converted during an elevator ride to the 10th floor.

However, the content of the OP was: 'the last trumpet is sounding, and now no-one can deny what is happening. In about two minutes, the door closes forever. A lifetime non-believer says, "Now I believe; what do I need to do to be saved?" What do you say?'

What could I say? 'Too late, too late will be the cry!' OR, John 3:16 (ESV). Or as Paul and Silas said to the Philippian jailer when he asked, 'What must I do to be saved?' Acts 16:31 (NIV) gives the answer, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household'. However, there had been a proclamation of the true Jesus prior to this and not a Karen King Jesus who was married and had a wife.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

"Now I believe; what do I need to do to be saved?" What do you say?'

Lets look at what Jesus said HE would say.
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Of course, He also said "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." to the thief on the cross.
So, lead the person through the sinners prayer. That's about all we'd have time for.

BUt, assuming we have more than 2 minutes left, let's try to be living gospels.

jim

 

[OzSpen]

Lets look at what Jesus said HE would say.
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Of course, He also said "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." to the thief on the cross.
So, lead the person through the sinners prayer. That's about all we'd have time for.

BUt, assuming we have more than 2 minutes left, let's try to be living gospels.

jim

Yes, be living gospels, but living gospels have mouths that need to proclaim Jesus as the only way of salvation (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Oz