Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

[smaller]

As believers we all too often fall into one sided fairy tale happy happy notions about what God in Christ is doing or will do. I could give many examples, but some of my favorite pseudo faith delusions are freewill claims that IF we all only decided to do good, then the world would be only good. OR, from the determinist side of the ledgers of delusions, that no matter what good or evil is decided upon, God in Christ just arbitrarily and capriciously decides who gets into heaven and who doesn't, without recourse of any kind, similar to a Divine lottery system.

For the purposes of this particular Bible study, I'll examine what God in Christ, by His Word and Spirit, is really up to. We might see that it is not all roses, bowls of cherries, colorful jellybeans and rainbows.

In the first two engagements of Gods Words with man, Adam in the Garden of Eden, we are treated to two opposite formats. The first format of engagement was blessings:

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

When we put on our rosy colored glasses above, we only see blessings, right? But, if we pay closer attentions, we might also see in the above the need to "subdue," have "dominion over" and the need to "replenish." Our happy happy mindset is always drawn to the nice stuff or the stuff we like to hear, but let's look at the potential for adversarial engagements in that same scripture:

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The need to "replenish" suggests that depletion is a reality does it not?
The need to "subdue" suggests that resistance is a reality does it not?
The need to "have dominion" suggests that adversity is a reality, does it not?

In the second course of engagement with Gods Words, God delivers the very first law. The essence of all law is command(s) coupled with penalty(s) for failure(s). And in that first law we have both of these law components, of command and penalty:

Gen. 2:
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Law, particularly the first one, has perplexed man from day 1. There is just a whole lot of Divine Punch in that first law. We are not really told whether or not Adam had even eaten yet prior to the delivery of that first law. And did Adam really have a clue about what death was? Unlikely.

Bible study today is fortunately in retrospect. We have a lot more information to dissect and understand "protology," the study of beginnings, than what Adam/Eve had. For purposes in this thread I'll be examining the dynamic of THE LAW and it's adverse, agitating intentions. Readers might have to take off their rosy colored blessings only glasses for this study. A lot of phony christian religious stories will be stepped on:

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

We can certainly see that Adam was delivered a LAW, a COMMAND. Do we see Adam in the light of 1 Tim. 1:9? Probably not. Paul tells us quite clearly that the law is for the above. What does that tell us about Adam?

 

[Chopper]

As believers we all too often fall into one sided fairy tale happy happy notions about what God in Christ is doing or will do. I could give many examples, but some of my favorite pseudo faith delusions are freewill claims that IF we all only decided to do good, then the world would be only good. OR, from the determinist side of the ledgers of delusions, that no matter what good or evil is decided upon, God in Christ just arbitrarily and capriciously decides who gets into heaven and who doesn't, without recourse of any kind, similar to a Divine lottery system.

For the purposes of this particular Bible study, I'll examine what God in Christ, by His Word and Spirit, is really up to. We might see that it is not all roses, bowls of cherries, colorful jellybeans and rainbows.

In the first two engagements of Gods Words with man, Adam in the Garden of Eden, we are treated to two opposite formats. The first format of engagement was blessings:

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

When we put on our rosy colored glasses above, we only see blessings, right? But, if we pay closer attentions, we might also see in the above the need to "subdue," have "dominion over" and the need to "replenish." Our happy happy mindset is always drawn to the nice stuff or the stuff we like to hear, but let's look at the potential for adversarial engagements in that same scripture:

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The need to "replenish" suggests that depletion is a reality does it not?
The need to "subdue" suggests that resistance is a reality does it not?
The need to "have dominion" suggests that adversity is a reality, does it not?

In the second course of engagement with Gods Words, God delivers the very first law. The essence of all law is command(s) coupled with penalty(s) for failure(s). And in that first law we have both of these law components, of command and penalty:

Gen. 2:
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Law, particularly the first one, has perplexed man from day 1. There is just a whole lot of Divine Punch in that first law. We are not really told whether or not Adam had even eaten yet prior to the delivery of that first law. And did Adam really have a clue about what death was? Unlikely.

Bible study today is fortunately in retrospect. We have a lot more information to dissect and understand "protology," the study of beginnings, than what Adam/Eve had. For purposes in this thread I'll be examining the dynamic of THE LAW and it's adverse, agitating intentions. Readers might have to take off their rosy colored blessings only glasses for this study. A lot of phony christian religious stories will be stepped on:

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

We can certainly see that Adam was delivered a LAW, a COMMAND. Do we see Adam in the light of 1 Tim. 1:9? Probably not. Paul tells us quite clearly that the law is for the above. What does that tell us about Adam?

Ah smaller, this has the potential of being a very informative and an exciting, IMO, journey thru your Spirit led mind. I'd like to add a preliminary statement from my most recent study on obedience to a Holy God, as it has to do with obedience & disobedience to our God.

Christians have three problems....
Problem 1. Is our attitude toward sin. It is more self centered than God centered....We want personal victory, instead of God
obedience.
Problem 2. Is that we have misunderstood "living by faith" (Galatians 2:20) Biblical Believers need personal exertion and work as
well as faith.
Problem 3. Is that we don't take sin seriously....When we, deep down, realize the our sins grieve the heart of God because sin is
offensive to God, it is against Him. Our Lord must be obeyed in ALL things whatsoever He commands!

Some information that I've posted comes from my current study on Holiness from the great book written by Jerry Bridges called, "The Pursuit of Holiness".

I hope my theological friend, that I've not stepped on your future instruction. If so, let me know and I'll stop. It's just that your theme really peeked my thirsty soul for what you will be presenting which will accompany my own daily studies.

May the Spirit of our blessed Savior Christ Jesus, give you His wisdom and revelation on this most important instruction. God bless you for your heart to teach Truth.

 

[smaller]

The law is not our friend, or is it? I expect to land on the latter by the time this thread completes, but in the meantime, let's look at the first part, that the law is not necessarily our friend, and why.

Adam got the LAW. IF Paul was trying to make an exception of the first law in Gen. 2:16-17 when he penned 1 Tim. 1:9 he didn't say so. By not excepting that particular law it must be assumed that the first law, of Gen. 2:16-17 is therefore included in the facts of 1 Tim. 1:

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Fairly wide ranging spread there in the above.

I'd like to take a much closer look at Adam, and some of the other features of the LAW.

What do we know of Adam? We know for one example, that Adam was Gods son. Luke 3:38. Knowing this how can we possibly attribute all of those DIRE THINGS to Adam, alone, as the recipient of the law? We really can't, and I'll show why shortly.

We also know these conditions were the conditions of ADAM, specifically, from Paul in 1 Cor. 15:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul adroitly puts his conclusion about how Adam was made and what he was subject/subjected TO at the END of his summation of Adam, which statements about Adam include the above and actually began in 1 Cor. 15:

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Adam received the law. And, we know that the law is for WHOM? Yeah, all those dire things above underlined in 1 Tim. 1:8-11. Without taking a closer look at Adam there really is no way, at least in my mind, granted, to see Adam as not being subject to those actions in 1 Tim. 1:8-11 or 1 Cor. 15:21 & 42-46 or Adam would not have received that first law.

We MUST attribute, at a bare minimum, to Adam, that Adam was subject to the LAW and was thusly categorized as at least having the potential for ALL of those dire things above bolded and underlined/emphasized.

We know the law is for (technically AGAINST) X (insert whatever sin you please.)

And we should be able to see that Adam was "subject" to dishonor, weakness, corruption in a natural body that brought DEATH to all of us. These are all 'obvious" to me. But in freewill land Adam was supposedly perfect and sinless and it was all only good. To me, that is simply a fairytale that can not and does not hold scriptural water, and we know it's NOT true, because of the above. Adam was actually in pretty bad shape from the moment he was formed from the "dust." Shown by the conditions of his NATURAL BODY.

Now, let's make this even more interesting.

We know that the blessings were sown upon Adam by Gods Words. We have a look, now, in retrospect about what happens where/when Gods Words are delivered from Jesus. So I am going to put this FACT into the mix right now so we don't forget what happens where the Word is sown:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There is no reason whatsoever to NOT SEE that the above happened with Adam.

Therefore, and please follow the simple math here, Adam was not "alone" in his own sorry hide. Mark 4:15 did happen to Adam. There is no reason to think otherwise.

 

[smaller]

Ah smaller, this has the potential of being a very informative and an exciting, IMO, journey thru your Spirit led mind. I'd like to add a preliminary statement from my most recent study on obedience to a Holy God, as it has to do with obedience & disobedience to our God.

Christians have three problems....
Problem 1. Is our attitude toward sin. It is more self centered than God centered....We want personal victory, instead of God
obedience.
Problem 2. Is that we have misunderstood "living by faith" (Galatians 2:20) Biblical Believers need personal exertion and work as
well as faith.
Problem 3. Is that we don't take sin seriously....When we, deep down, realize the our sins grieve the heart of God because sin is
offensive to God, it is against Him. Our Lord must be obeyed in ALL things whatsoever He commands!

Some information that I've posted comes from my current study on Holiness from the great book written by Jerry Bridges called, "The Pursuit of Holiness".

I hope my theological friend, that I've not stepped on your future instruction. If so, let me know and I'll stop. It's just that your theme really peeked my thirsty soul for what you will be presenting which will accompany my own daily studies.

May the Spirit of our blessed Savior Christ Jesus, give you His wisdom and revelation on this most important instruction. God bless you for your heart to teach Truth.

I think and at least HOPE what you'll find in these exercises of law is the fact of the "lawless one" in the equations Chopper. Without that we are bouncing around on a one legged theological stool.

What I just covered in the last post was that the Word of both blessings and law was sown upon Adam. And, with the pleasure of a retrospective analysis for which we have Jesus' Words to see the events with, we should be able to see what really happened with Adam:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Now, when we go back and see Adam, do we only see Adam? We shouldn't.

We should see Adam and Satan, MOVED by both the Word of God in blessings, to STEAL those Words from Adam's heart, and then God GIVING THE LAW to the LAWLESS ONE who entered the heart of Adam.

The scriptural picture of Adam is Adam and Satan, BLINDING Adam, the natural man.

And this is the EXACT scriptural picture that Paul paints for us here:

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

We know also that Adam was a NATURAL MAN, just as 1 Cor. 15:42-46 states. And what also do we know of the natural man? Again, Paul affirms this:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why can't the "natural man" receive or understand? See Mark 4:15, 2 Cor. 4:4, and here I'll also add Eph. 2:2. Because in the natural flesh, that man, Adam, was a SLAVE of the "god of this world," the "prince of the power of the air," who blinded Adam, the natural man, and stole from Adam's heart, just as Mark 4:15 calls forth.

Eph. 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The natural man, to this day, STILL can not connect these simple scriptural dots and see the obvious. It simply can not happen nor be seen, even though it's as plain as DAY.

Here was Adam:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

And here was the enemy, the adversary of Adam, the spirit of disobedience, who entered his heart to steal, and blind the natural man that Adam was:

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

NOW let's read, accurately, WHO the law was really for:

1 Tim. 1:
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Was/is Satan all of the above?

Assuredly so! So, now who was THE LAW really for? (against)

 

[smaller]

Having engaged in this particular subject of LAW in relationship to the adversary for quite some time now in my believing life, probably over a couple decades, I've confirmed, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that any believer who can not get the 'adversary/resisting' party on their theological table for viewing, particularly if they exempt themselves, they are and remain in a 'natural' frame of mind, can not see, and are actively being stolen from. They invariably, every single time, see ONLY MAN.

That is NOT how Jesus Sees. This is how Jesus Sees:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There are 3 parties to the above.

Gods Word(s)
Satan
Mankind

This is how the Word sees.

Let's take a quick stroll and see it, repeatedly:

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Kind of obvious, ain't it? Just like Mark 4:15.

But a natural mind can't see it and won't be able to.

The moment, yes, the moment any believer sees this about THEIR sin:

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

They might then realize that Mark 4:15 DOES also apply to THEMSELVES.

Did Paul show us that Mark 4:15 applied to himself? I'd say so, big time. Yet the natural man STILL can not see it:

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

I've seen just about every slant there is on the above, given by the natural man's sight, who not only REFUSES to see the obvious, but in reality CAN NOT see the obvious. It's quite entertaining, actually, to see the extents of such blindness. When you see the BLINDER you know you're not engaging 'just man' when you see and hear the fancy dancing to get around the facts.

 

[Chopper]

O boy smaller. I am riveted to this thread. Because you have mentioned Mark 4:15 in other threads as well as this one, you're emphasis has really hit a "home run" in my thinking. To me, this is now a MAJOR lesson to my spirit/mind. I think I viewed Mark 4:15 as a simple parable with a one time emphasis for that crowd....

Mark 4:1 "And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine."

O boy, my old brain just picked up on the fact that this was not only a parable for teaching this one time by the sea, but this is the DOCTRINE of the Son of God which goes forward as Truth, as you are teaching now. Thank you!

 

[smaller]

Mark 4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine."
O boy, my old brain just picked up on the fact that this was not only a parable for teaching this one time by the sea, but this is the DOCTRINE of the Son of God which goes forward as Truth, as you are teaching now. Thank you!

Brilliant deduction Chopper.

What Mark 4:15 tells us is that where Gods Words are sown, Satan comes to "steal" same from the heart. There is the AGITATION of The Word meeting the unseen thief. But because the theft goes on without notice, it's difficult to perceive.

The fact that you are even ALLOWED to see it speaks volumes. It has to be ALLOWED by God in Christ in order for believers to even see the facts.

otherwise...they remain blinded and stolen from. That's part of the Word that Satan STEALS: The fact that Satan enters the heart to steal. (and to blind: 2 Cor. 4:4) (and to disobey: Eph. 2:2) (and to also SIN: 1 John 3:8)

Believers who are STOLEN FROM can't see these facts because these facts are STOLEN from them by another unseen party that is not them.

 

[smaller]

The question believers should ask themselves is this: Did Mark 4:15 happen to me?

Believers should know it did happen. Prior to calling on the Name of the Lord, calling on Jesus to save, the unbeliever had no clue whatsoever about Jesus as their Savior. Or, they had some vague and irrelevant far off notions of same equating to "stuff they heard" on the street, in the pulpit or on teevee.

Scriptures define this state as being ASLEEP, under the power of Satan, of darkness:

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Anywhere we read of being "asleep" in the Bible, it usually speaks to the above kind of sleep. Having our eyes SHUT to the facts of Satan and the power of darkness ruling over us.

Allow me to connect a little dot here on this subject of sleep and Adam. IF we understand the principle of Mark 4:15, that where the Word is sown Satan enters the heart (darkness/sleep) to steal/tempt/kill/destroy (John 10:10), and the Word of blessings were sown on Adam by God, what then happened immediately thereafter, after that Word was sown? Yep: Satan ENTERED Adam's heart. And then what? Yep. Adam THEN received THE LAW! The question here is WHY THE LAW?

The reason Adam received THE LAW was because the "lawless one" had entered his heart to steal, to deceive, to tempt, to destroy and eventually, to kill.

The law is for the LAWLESS. 1 Tim. 1:9. Hello.

And what then happened AFTER Adam received THE LAW? Adam had a deep sleep fall upon him. And yes, this "sleep" was caused by God sowing His LAW Word upon Adam, but the fulcrum of that sleep was Mark 4:15, the entry of Satan into Adam's heart to work his dastardly deeds which deeds entail and begin with DARKNESS AND SLEEP. Spiritual SLUMBER. Acts 26:18 shows us what Satan does, as do many other scriptures. Part of that working of Satan is Spiritual slumber/sleep, darkness. Read it. It's right there to see.

From the moment Gods Words were sown upon Adam we should NO LONGER see Adam as just Adam. We should recognize that it was Adam and the tempter who had entered "his heart."

When Adam left the Garden, Adam took the tempter with him, in his own heart, in the form of Spiritual slumber/darkness of the NATURAL MAN. This is also why the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God. Because they are ASLEEP, IN THE DARK, in the Spiritual sense.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And WHY is this? Because the natural man is asleep, in the darkness, under the power of Satan who is stealing them BLIND:

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Every last believer who is still wasting their time blaming and accusing natural man, who is in darkness, asleep, under the POWER of Satan, blinded, are WASTING YOUR TIME in doing so.

It is YOU who do not see!

 

[smaller]

Having established then, that the LAW is for the LAWLESS sinner, 1 Tim. 1:9. That Satan is a lawless sinner, 1 John 3:8. That Satan enters the heart where the Word is sown, Mark 4:15, are you starting to get the picture on THE LAW yet? Who is the LAW really against? Is it JUST MAN? No!

We know that Satan is moved into resisting/stealing action by THE WORD being sown. Isn't the LAW the WORD of God also? Yes, the Law is the Word of God, also.

IF you read this thread and come away with only ONE fact, I hope it's the fact that you see the LAW is also against Satan and devils, who are "the lawless." They, these "foreign adverse spiritual entities" can NOT BE LEGAL. Because where the Word is sown, they RESIST.

Get it yet? Wake up!

 

[smaller]

Moving on. The topic of this Bible study is terminal agitating ending in silence.

What happens where the LAW is sown? Ah, some, one or two readers may actually have the light coming on by now, the little bell ringing, the hello moment. Yes, where THE LAW is sown, Satan comes to do his sleepy darkness temptation deception destruction evil killing. I can set aside a post or two establishing Satan as evil, but I'd hope if any reader is a Christian they already know that. fwiw, the majority of people claiming to be christians sitting in the pews don't have much of a clue about any of these things. What you hear in this thread you will not hear in the pulpit, and I'll get to why that is later.

But Satan IS the evil one. John 8:44. A murder from the beginning, and the father of lies. The tempter, the deceiver, the one who blinds the minds of the unsaved and beguiles the minds of believers.

Now, knowing this, why do we look at any person as 'alone?' Or as 'just them, an individual?' Such sight is worthless by the Sight of the Spirit. We should be seeing TWO parties, with the unsaved. The person and the captor, the blinder, the power of darkness and Spiritual sleep/slumber. That's how Jesus Saw and that's how the Apostles saw.

Jesus saw the blinded people of Israel, as CAPTURED by Satan.

How did that captivity transpire? Uh, yes, Mark 4:15. Where the Word is sown, the LAW, who entered their heart to capture them, to put them to Spiritual sleep where they could not hear or see? Uh, yes, our adversary, the devil.

Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

Again, in the above, we see the THREE PARTY PRINCIPLE that the Word, the scriptures revolve upon. Gods Word, the people, and Satan. The PRINCIPLE being shown in Romans 11:8 above is virtually identical to Mark 4:15 as to the THREE PARTIES.

How did the people get the spirit of slumber from God? By God sowing the LAW in Israel. Mark 4:15 then happened. Satan, the power of darkness, of sleep, of all the other dire deeds, had entered and captured their hearts.

Now, when we read this scripture from Paul in:

Romans 9:
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Do you manage to see that the spirit of slumber is of Israel, but is not Israel?

 

[smaller]

Any who have understood the "Divine Principle" involved in Mark 4:15, as outlined in surface details in the above posts (oh yes, it gets a lot deeper, fast) should buckle in for this one.

IF we know that the worst sinner who ever existed enters OUR hearts, where the Word is sown, as Mark 4:15 proposes as a FACT, we should not be looking at ourselves as "just us" any more than we should look at the unsaved and see only them and NOT see the "god of this world" who has them spiritually captured.

So, did Paul see himself as only himself? Of course not! Let's take a look at Paul:

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For those readers who are a little slow to catch on, Paul pretty well clears up the above, here:

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Anyone who is still pulling their own leg about their 'sin' NOT being "of the devil" yet, 1 John 3:8, should probably go back to the first post and start over again til they "get it." Yes, you are reading Paul clearly if you SEE IT. IF however you are in denial, you will resist AND BE PAWNED by that which you deny having in your own flesh.

But, for the one or two that God Elects to Allow to SEE, let's take a look at what happens to us INTERNALLY, where The Word is sown, because of the "entry" of Satan, the evil one, the wicked one, into our own hearts:

Matt. 15:
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So, yes, where the WORD of LAW is sown, Mark 4:15, Satan arrives right on cue to what? Yes, to TEMPT, to STEAL, to DECEIVE, to DESTROY, to KILL, to SIN, to DO EVIL.

The first attack line of our adversary is this: EVIL LAWLESS THOUGHTS.

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Romans 7:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Are we starting to "get the picture" here yet? If not, go back to the first thread til it sticks, if that's possible.

But, for those who actually do get it, it will get more interesting. What we're establishing here is the reality of the RESISTANCE of the adversary, internally, in our own hearts. That is where the 'BATTLES' take place with this adversary.

Did Paul have this BATTLE? Of course. Evil was for no uncertain fact, present with him. Paul defined the sin indwelling his own flesh as NOT HIM, and yes, Paul's sin was for no uncertain fact, OF THE DEVIL, 1 John 3:8, 2 Cor. 12:7.

So, where the Word is sown, what happens? Yep. Satan does enter the heart, Mark 4:15, and does cause EVIL THOUGHTS which evil thoughts RESIST the LAW. The evil present with Paul, the sin indwelling his flesh (sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8) that was not Paul, could in NO WAY ever be legal or legally obedient. It's not even remotely possible for that to happen because Mark 4:15 DOES happen.

So, does Paul give us the same functioning principle of Satan's resistance to the law in his own flesh? Of course. Paul lines up PERFECTLY with Jesus' Statements of FACTS above, in Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 15:19-20, here:

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Are we making the connections here yet?

It's the identical principle above, of Mark 4:15, the LAW against coveting coming to Paul, then causing lustful/coveting/evil thoughts IN Paul by that which Paul defined as "NO MORE I" that does it, that Jesus Speaks of, here:

Matt. 5:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Are we getting the picture here yet of the ADVERSE DYNAMIC between GODS WORDS and Satan??? Mark 4:15?

If it's not clear by now, go back to the first post and start over.

 

[smaller]

So, for those who DO SEE, there is going to be a period of adjustment that comes with this sight as you examine your own thoughts, your own "history" and you see you were NOT ALONE in your own sin, blindness, evil thoughts, deceptions, captivity. You were being pawned in your own mind by a "superior" entity that was not you.

After I first saw this principle, I spent probably 3 years studying it, and during that time, spent a great amount of time in reverse forensics, examining how this fact really effected my own life in the past, and even the present. It will take a little time to settle in.

But, the REWARDS are multifold.

For example, now, every single time you hear some religious clown claiming they are legally obedient, you can serious laugh at their Spiritual ignorance, when they claim their indwelling sin that is "no more I" and the evil present with them, their evil thoughts, are legal, it's really just a bad joke OF THE DEVIL who is deceiving them. You'll probably never have to seriously listen to another LIAR on this subject again. You can just sit back and watch them and know just how badly they are deceived. In reality it is really the devil in their flesh who is making that claim. This is part of what believers who hear will have to adjust to. Their HEARING will change. They will HEAR the voice of the adversary ARISE when Gods Truth comes to the picture, and they will hear this voice from the flesh of others, and even in their own mind, if they are paying attentions, guarding their own THOUGHTS.

Will perhaps get more into this later, but I hope by this point the AGITATION factor is nailed to the table, securely.

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There is the agitation factor. And yes, it is quite entirely REAL, right between our own TWO EARS.

The Word is MEANT to arouse the adversary to come to the fore, and to do his thing.

 

[JLB]

Ah smaller, this has the potential of being a very informative and an exciting, IMO, journey thru your Spirit led mind. I'd like to add a preliminary statement from my most recent study on obedience to a Holy God, as it has to do with obedience & disobedience to our God.

Christians have three problems....
Problem 1. Is our attitude toward sin. It is more self centered than God centered....We want personal victory, instead of God
obedience.
Problem 2. Is that we have misunderstood "living by faith" (Galatians 2:20) Biblical Believers need personal exertion and work as
well as faith.
Problem 3. Is that we don't take sin seriously....When we, deep down, realize the our sins grieve the heart of God because sin is
offensive to God, it is against Him. Our Lord must be obeyed in ALL things whatsoever He commands!

Some information that I've posted comes from my current study on Holiness from the great book written by Jerry Bridges called, "The Pursuit of Holiness".

I hope my theological friend, that I've not stepped on your future instruction. If so, let me know and I'll stop. It's just that your theme really peeked my thirsty soul for what you will be presenting which will accompany my own daily studies.

May the Spirit of our blessed Savior Christ Jesus, give you His wisdom and revelation on this most important instruction. God bless you for your heart to teach Truth.

Yes sir.

We all must make the choice to obey God.


The Grace of God given to us In Christ, is that we have been given the Holy Spirit.

It is up to us, by the Spirit, to put to death the deeds, desires, sinful cravings of our flesh.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

This is an eternal "life" or eternal "death" choice we all must make.


The "if" establishes the condition of choice for the Christian who has the Spirit.



JLB

 

[smaller]

When I deployed the term "Terminal Agitation" here is where all of this is, at some point, either for us individually or the world collectively at some point will land, according to Paul.

Firstly, ALL will know they are sinners:

Romans 3:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

And how do we know that ALL will know this? Paul shows us this fact, here:

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This will transpire because of the power of God, by His Word of LAW:

Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

This is NOT a pretty picture on the horizon here for the flesh.

When WE, as believers, hold up THE LAW, it is done with the specific purpose of making SIN WORSE!

 

[smaller]

Yes sir.

We all must make the choice to obey God.

If you're in this thread to claim indwelling sin and evil present with anyone is obedient or lawful you're still wasting your time. Romans 7:17-21.

 

[ezrider]

I will not deny that which Mark 4:15 states. Satan certainly will come along and try to steal the word which was sown. But I also must point out that Mark 4:15 is not the whole of the parable. Mark 4:15 applies to the seed that fell by the way side. The seed that falls into the fertile soil, Satan CAN NOT steal it away. But the seed that falls into the fertile soil is not the topic of the OP. The seed that falls by the wayside and how Satan comes to steal it away according to Mark 4:15 is the topic.

So, What exactly is it that Satan tries to STEAL? What is it Satan would like for you to steal for yourself as you walk along the wayside?

Satan tries to steal the Glory and Righteousness of God for Himself. Ever heard the Christian phrase "I am the righteousness of God in Christ"?? Are you the righteousness of God in Christ? Or is Christ the Righteousness of God that dwells in you?

It is the righteousness and glory of God the Satan tries steal for himself, to claim his own righteousness, and to seek his own glory. This is what Jesus taught when spoke of the Pharisees and hypocrites for doing all those thing to be seen of men. They seek their own glory, they seek their own righteousness, but to the Glory and Righteousness of the Lord, the remain blinded to while they still seek their own.

As we look to the word that was stolen as we received it by the wayside. How many here can honestly say they are the Scribe and Pharisee Jesus was speaking to? That they are the hypocrite Jesus referred to, and they are guilty of all the charges He laid against them?

Isaiah 44:8-10
Fear ye not, neither be afraid:
have not I told thee from that time,
and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses.
Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
They that make a graven image are all of them vanity;
and their delectable things shall not profit;
and they are their own witnesses;
they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image
that is profitable for nothing?

Isaiah 44:18-20
They have not known nor understood:
for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see;
and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
And none considereth in his heart,
neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say,
I have burned part of it in the fire;
yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof;
I have roasted flesh, and eaten it:
and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination?
shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
He feedeth on ashes:
a deceived heart hath turned him aside,
that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say,
Is there not a lie in my right hand?

Have you considered in our heart that you are the scribe and Pharisee. That you are the hypocrite? Once you have considered this in your heart and have accepted it, then you can move on from the word that received by the wayside, and into the fertile soil where Satan can no longer steal away that which is sown, where the fruits of righteousness can begin to spring forth.

Isaiah 44:21-25
Remember these, O Jacob
and Israel; for thou art my servant:
I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,
and, as a cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it:
shout, ye lower parts of the earth:
break forth into singing, ye mountains,
O forest, and every tree therein:
for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob,
and glorified himself in Israel.
Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer,
and he that formed thee from the womb,
I am the Lord that maketh all things;
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
That frustrateth the tokens of the liars,
and maketh diviners mad;
that turneth wise men backward,
and maketh their knowledge foolish;


It is the Glory and the Righteousness of God that Satan tries to steal for himself. It is the Glory and Righteousness of the Lord they remain blinded to. But it is the Lord who does the blinding , not Satan.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the Lord: that is my name:
and my glory will I not give to another,
neither my praise to graven images.

 

[reba]

Members have the freedom to voice their opinions or thoughts... This is Bible Study it is OK to make ones point 'then move on' as to not be debating the good ol "yes no yes no" over and over..
This goes for all of us..

Do not reply to this post in this thread.. .

 

[ezrider]

Isaiah 44:18-20
They have not known nor understood:
for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see;
and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
And none considereth in his heart,
neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say,
I have burned part of it in the fire;
yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof;
I have roasted flesh, and eaten it:
and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination?
shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
He feedeth on ashes:
a deceived heart hath turned him aside,
that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say,
Is there not a lie in my right hand?

I should think we can certainly look at Paul as one who considered in his heart such things. Paul often said he was the chief among sinners. Paul describes for us in the book of Romans how the things that he would do he doesn't, and the thing he wouldn't do, he does. Paul was not in denial of his condition. But in all things, Paul sought no glory for himself, but only the Glory of Christ. Likewise, when Jesus walked as a man in the flesh, he sought no glory for himself. He only sought to Glorify the heavenly Father.

 

[smaller]

I will not deny that which Mark 4:15 states. Satan certainly will come along and try to steal the word which was sown. But I also must point out that Mark 4:15 is not the whole of the parable. Mark 4:15 applies to the seed that fell by the way side. The seed that falls into the fertile soil, Satan CAN NOT steal it away. But the seed that falls into the fertile soil is not the topic of the OP. The seed that falls by the wayside and how Satan comes to steal it away according to Mark 4:15 is the topic.

Every Word of the parable applies to us. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

The working of the adversary is not merely theft, as prior noted. The working includes every manner of sin, Romans 7:7-13, 1 John 3:8, every lie, John 8:44, every murder, John 10:10, every deception, Rev. 12:9, every temptation, etc. etc.

And, because the parable, which IS a reality, includes Satan, it includes Satan all the way through the parable. At no time is Satan removed from the parable. His workings are conveyed in different ways, interestingly delineated in the Mark 4 parable and the sister seed parables in Matt. and Luke.

So, What exactly is it that Satan tries to STEAL? What is it Satan would like for you to steal for yourself as you walk along the wayside? Satan tries to steal the Glory and Righteousness of God for Himself. Ever heard the Christian phrase "I am the righteousness of God in Christ"?? Are you the righteousness of God in Christ? Or is Christ the Righteousness of God that dwells in you?

That is seeing only one party. There is no one party to see, but 3.

Here is Paul's sight of himself. Paul is not seeing only Paul:

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Take those same questions with the above factor and both the questions and answers will be very different.

It is the righteousness and glory of God the Satan tries steal for himself, to claim his own righteousness, and to seek his own glory. This is what Jesus taught when spoke of the Pharisees and hypocrites for doing all those thing to be seen of men.

Who is the 'hypocrite' in the equations? IF we see TWO PARTIES as we should, the LYING HYPOCRITE should be quite obvious.

But again and again, without accurate scriptural sight, the other party will be stolen from the picture, and that theft, by the chief thief.

A person can tell, instantly, when a one string untruthful theological fiddle is being played, because they are missing the vital components to the engagements.

 

[Chopper]

With Mark 4:15 "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." .... As a daily standard of being on the alert of Satan, who is the enemy of my soul, I need to be conscious of any "taking away" of important doctrine that Jesus wanted to sow into my heart....Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman (me) of the house (Head of house)had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

It has always bothered me, that when the Spirit of God, unlocks a great nugget of Truth that applies to my life, and it seems that after a half hour, I can't remember what the Truth was that impacted my spirit. Listen, I wanted to meditate on that Truth, but it was GONE from my mind/heart. At 76 years old, I chalked it up as just an aged mind that forgets a lot of things.

Now I know what may have really happened....Mark 4:15 "Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their (My) hearts."....Somehow, I have to come up with a spiritual strategy to defeat Satan from stealing valuable life changing principles from the Word of God. This might be one, 2 Corinthians 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."

I need a strategy smaller, help?