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Theology. Christian Think Tank Topic: The Incarnation

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JohnD

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Background

John 1:1 (AV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (AV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 10:5 (AV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hebrews 1:5 (AV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Philippians 2:6–11 (AV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God the Word incarnate.
 
1 Corinthians 15:21–22 (AV)
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:47 (AV)
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:49 (AV)
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 John 3:2 (AV)
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (AV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Each Adam is a prototype.

Nothing from this entire creation could be used to create the sinless prototype "last Adam" including the ovum of Mary. Not the actual DNA of the first Adam, Abraham, David, Mary. But God could create a body with that DNA / genetic information...

And there is no scripture that says Jesus has to have had that lineal DNA. The expression "seed" could mean heir, offspring... and "seed of the woman" in the protoevangelium (Genesis 3:15) refers to the virgin birth (without a human father). And again, God could make Jesus' body with the same DNA information without using the linear DNA of Adam, David, Abraham, Mary. Nothing in scripture says this would disqualify him as the heir of these. And again, the last Adam went through full gestation and childbirth which alone qualify him as the heir, offspring, seed of A.D.A.& M.

In this way God met all the criteria and requirements extant at the time and known to man (no one knew of surrogacy or internationalization or even cloning all of which we know are possible)... qualifying Jesus as a sinless human being and our kinsman to be able to redeem us.
 
From a discussion in another forum, the topic being along the lines of...

If the Holy Spirit is not God the Father, then why does the Bible say this?

Matthew 1:20 (AV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
 
I tried in discussion about the Trinity to diagram the overlapping of certain descriptive terms regarding the persons of God without contradicting scriptures that clearly distinguish each distinct person of the Godhead (Matthew 28:19, John 14:26 and 15:26 to name just a few). That each is Spirit. Each is Holy. That is Holy Spirit. Which is not to say each is THE (named) Holy Spirit. Each is A father, but not all three are THE (named) Father. Jesus is the Father of Creation (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16). The Holy Spirit is the Father of the Scriptures (2 Peter 1:20-21). God the Father is the Father of the Incarnate Jesus (John 1:14, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5). So each is A father.

This could explain Matthew 1:20 as using descriptive language of the first person of the Trinity rather than what has come to be the name of the third person of the trinity. Recall also that the world was not too well versed on the Triune nature of God at the time of Jesus' birth:

Matthew 11:27 (AV)
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Trouble was, my fellow debaters were too steeped in human traditions passed off as Church tradition and the way we've always done it in the past... {sigh}
 
The next point was to show that the actual (named) Holy Spirit could have been who Matthew 1:20 referred to if his role was not in the conception but the implantation of the conceptus into the womb of Mary. The biggest objection to this was the implication of her surrogacy rather than being the actual mother of Jesus.

And my point was, taking all of scripture into consideration, plus knowing what we know now about conception which includes in vitro fertilization, cloning etc., Jesus could not be a direct blood heir of any human being without contracting the fallen nature of man (including the mother see Psalm 51:5).
 
The requirements and criteria were all met to bridge the gap between the two races (the children of the first Adam and the last Adam).
 
JohnD , this is way to long and complicated to have any reasonable chance of a logical debate. A&T guidelines state in part "Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture." In light of this you are going to have to condense this to one scripture you believe sums up what you are trying to present as your subject for debate along with a brief statement of what your subject is. If this can not be done, we will have to consider this a Bible study rather than a debate topic.
 
(Post removed. Public refusal to follow the guidelines of this forum, public refusal to comply with moderator's request to follow the guidelines of this forum, publicly disputing moderator's actions, and personal insults. Obadiah.)
 
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