Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
We should take Him literally here!

I am glad you understand that everything Jesus taught in Matthew 24 in response to the questions from His disciples is literal, unless He says, Now hear the parable.

Let's look at the two questions in Matthew 24:3.

2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Matthew records two distinct and different questions.
I am not sure I get your point, but I bet we do not agree. I believe everything in Matthew 24 happened in the first century. Note that this does not mean that I do not believe Jesus will return in the future, but rather that the "coming" discussed in Matthew 24 in particular is a "coming" that has already taken place.

Besides, I think your argument does not work for another. Yes, there are two questions. However, Jesus in no way gives us reason to believe that His statement "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" applies to only one of these questions. Clearly, it applies to both.

Suppose I asked you "when will A occur and when will B occur". You then launch into your answer and, at some point, say "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" Clearly, you would be addressing both A and B in that answer. Otherwise, your answer should have been appropriately qualified to indicate that your statement about "this generation shall not pass away..." is really only applicable to one of those questions.

I believe your position also suffers from the challenges that, if I understand you, you need to believe that "the end of the age" is something other than the radical transformation that occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the end of the "old covenant".

That seems rather unlikely.

More shortly.
 
I believe your position also suffers from the challenges that, if I understand you, you need to believe that "the end of the age" is something other than the radical transformation that occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the end of the "old covenant".
The word of God says -

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.


The Law was UNTIL John the baptist.

So you couldn't be anymore wrong!


JLB
 
The word of God says -

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.


The Law was UNTIL John the baptist.

So you couldn't be anymore wrong!


JLB

Jesus disagrees with you.

Mat 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
 
Jesus disagrees with you.

Mat 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Except the fact Christ fulfilled it and we are not under it anymore.

(Gal 3:23-25) But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor [to bring us] to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
 
I believe your position also suffers from the challenges that, if I understand you, you need to believe that "the end of the age" is something other than the radical transformation that occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the end of the "old covenant".

The Old Covenant ended when Christ hung on the cross and said it is finished,not with the destruction of the temple.............
 
The Old Covenant ended when Christ hung on the cross and said it is finished,not with the destruction of the temple.............

When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

Hebrews was written years after the cross and the "obsolete" had not disappeared yet. The "obsolete" was the first, old covenant - the Law of Moses. Jesus said it wouldn't pass away until heaven and earth passed away:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Matthew 24:34-35 (NASB)

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. Revelation 21:1 (NASB)

The first heaven and first earth was the old covenant kingdom of Israel, represented by its Temple. The final fulfillment of "all that was written" (Luke 21) was the destruction of Jerusalem, thus bringing to an end forever the old covenant.

so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many [on the cross], will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:28 (NASB)

His second coming was to judge Israel and to exact vengeance for the covenant (see Lev. 26, Dt. 28).


I know you don't accept it, but that's what the reference to "heaven and earth" means: the Temple, sky, and land of the old covenant kingdom ruled by a corrupt and apostate priesthood that had a history of killing God's messengers, culminating in the crucifixion of Christ Himself.


Vengeance for the covenant. Read Leviticus 26 and Matthew 21.
 
I would invite any student of the word of God to investigate the details of the prophesied battle of Armageddon throughout the word of God. Don't just take one or two passages and then allegorize them. Joel says that "all nations" will be gathered against Jerusalem one day (not just the Roman armies of Titus).

Zechariah says the same. At Armageddon, Zechariah says that the Lord Himself will personally go forth to "fight against those nations" gathered against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14.3). This is not Titus against the Jews in 66-70 AD! The spirits of devils go forth to draw the kings or rulers of the earth to "gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Revelation 16.14). The location is given as "Armageddon" (Joel's "valley of Jehoshaphat", or "the judgment of Jehovah", or, as some have said, the plain of Esdraelon, the valley of Jezreel). At any rate, this great battlefield will have the fate of the city of Jerusalem, and indeed the fate of the world, as its focus, when the nations of the world will be gathered there (Revelation 19.19).

The armies of the beast will be defeated by the personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ and not by the armies of Titus, whom, some preterists would have us believe, was serving the beast (as some of them say Nero was the beast!). Thus preterism confuses and obscures the truth of endtime prophecies.


A study of the Great Tribulation (“the Time of Jacob’s Trouble†according to Jeremiah 30.7) shows that this period did not occur in the first century. There are a number of reasons why the Great Tribulation, as it is described to us in the scriptures, could not have taken place in the first century, and did not take place, given the historical record that we have. It is wrong to try to “force†this prophesied event into the first century if it did not indeed actually happen during the first century.

Some Reasons Why The Great Tribulation (The Time of Jacob’s Trouble) Cannot Fit The First Century:
(1) There was no "beast" in the first century, who caused all of the inhabitants of the earth to receive a mark in their forehead or in their right hand so that they could buy or sell (Revelation 13.15-18). Such a commandment to the Jews would have caused a widescale riot because of the Scriptural prohibition against receiving marks in the flesh (Leviticus 19.28). The technological capacity did not exist.

(2) There are no historical reports of the ministry of the Two Witnesses, with the astounding Old Testament miraculous signs done by them, fire being called down from heaven, water into blood, plagues upon the masses of humanity, etc. (Revelation 11.3-7).

(3) There are no historical reports of the public murder of these Two Witnesses in the city of Jerusalem in the first century, which was witnessed and rejoiced over worldwide by the nations (Revelation 11.8-11). The communications and technological ability did not then exist as it does today.

(4) There are no historical reports of the public resurrection of these Two Witnesses (Revelation 11.11,12).
(5) There are no historical reports of a great earthquake in Jerusalem immediately following the public resurrection and ascension of these Two Witnesses, which is a public event.
 
I would invite any student of the word of God to investigate the details of the prophesied battle of Armageddon throughout the word of God. Don't just take one or two passages and then allegorize them. Joel says that "all nations" will be gathered against Jerusalem one day (not just the Roman armies of Titus).

Zechariah says the same. At Armageddon, Zechariah says that the Lord Himself will personally go forth to "fight against those nations" gathered against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14.3). This is not Titus against the Jews in 66-70 AD! The spirits of devils go forth to draw the kings or rulers of the earth to "gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Revelation 16.14). The location is given as "Armageddon" (Joel's "valley of Jehoshaphat", or "the judgment of Jehovah", or, as some have said, the plain of Esdraelon, the valley of Jezreel). At any rate, this great battlefield will have the fate of the city of Jerusalem, and indeed the fate of the world, as its focus, when the nations of the world will be gathered there (Revelation 19.19).

The armies of the beast will be defeated by the personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ and not by the armies of Titus, whom, some preterists would have us believe, was serving the beast (as some of them say Nero was the beast!). Thus preterism confuses and obscures the truth of endtime prophecies.


A study of the Great Tribulation (“the Time of Jacob’s Trouble” according to Jeremiah 30.7) shows that this period did not occur in the first century. There are a number of reasons why the Great Tribulation, as it is described to us in the scriptures, could not have taken place in the first century, and did not take place, given the historical record that we have. It is wrong to try to “force” this prophesied event into the first century if it did not indeed actually happen during the first century.

Some Reasons Why The Great Tribulation (The Time of Jacob’s Trouble) Cannot Fit The First Century:
(1) There was no "beast" in the first century, who caused all of the inhabitants of the earth to receive a mark in their forehead or in their right hand so that they could buy or sell (Revelation 13.15-18). Such a commandment to the Jews would have caused a widescale riot because of the Scriptural prohibition against receiving marks in the flesh (Leviticus 19.28). The technological capacity did not exist.

(2) There are no historical reports of the ministry of the Two Witnesses, with the astounding Old Testament miraculous signs done by them, fire being called down from heaven, water into blood, plagues upon the masses of humanity, etc. (Revelation 11.3-7).

(3) There are no historical reports of the public murder of these Two Witnesses in the city of Jerusalem in the first century, which was witnessed and rejoiced over worldwide by the nations (Revelation 11.8-11). The communications and technological ability did not then exist as it does today.

(4) There are no historical reports of the public resurrection of these Two Witnesses (Revelation 11.11,12).
(5) There are no historical reports of a great earthquake in Jerusalem immediately following the public resurrection and ascension of these Two Witnesses, which is a public event.


Brother you make some very good points here.



If the enemy can "remove" the one clear safeguard that The Lord Jesus Himself gave us against being deceived into receiving the false Messiah as the real one, then he has won.

The first thing The Lord told us before He started His answer to the disciples was, - And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.


then again, just before He described His safeguard He said,-

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.


The Lord Jesus made it crystal clear, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS RETURNED!

If someone has to tell you that He has returned, DON'T BELIEVE THEM!

For as lightning strikes in the east AND IS SEEN in the west, so shall it be with the coming of the Son of Man.

John says it this way - Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Which is an echo of what the Lord Himself said through the prophet Zechariah -

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

In addition to giving this safeguard, Jesus told us that just before He returned -

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Luke says it this way

Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Now why would The Lord say to look up when the sun,moon and stars fell from the sky, if this was not a literal statement?

Total pitch black darkness, then The Light of the world appears in heaven, believe it, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU HE HAS RETURNED!

FOR EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM!


30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The enemy wants as many people as he can deceive, to believe the lie, so they will embrace the false christ, the man of sin, the son of perdition.


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


Don't believe the lie, that Jesus has already returned.


JLB
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brother you make some very good points here.



If the enemy can "remove" the one clear safeguard that The Lord Jesus Himself gave us against being deceived into receiving the false Messiah as the real one, then he has won.

The first thing The Lord told us before He started His answer to the disciples was, - And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.


then again, just before He described His safeguard He said,-

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.


The Lord Jesus made it crystal clear, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS RETURNED!

If someone has to tell you that He has returned, DON'T BELIEVE THEM!

For as lightning strikes in the east AND IS SEEN in the west, so shall it be with the coming of the Son of Man.

John says it this way - Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Which is an echo of what the Lord Himself said through the prophet Zechariah -

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

In addition to giving this safeguard, Jesus told us that just before He returned -

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Luke says it this way

Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Now why would The Lord say to look up when the sun,moon and stars fell from the sky, if this was not a literal statement?

Total pitch black darkness, then The Light of the world appears in heaven, believe it, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU HE HAS RETURNED!

FOR EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM!


30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The enemy wants as many people as he can deceive, to believe the lie, so they will embrace the false christ, the man of sin, the son of perdition.


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


Don't believe the lie, that Jesus has already returned.


JLB

Amen brother, Amen :thumbsup
 
The Old Covenant ended when Christ hung on the cross and said it is finished,not with the destruction of the temple.............


N2 IMO this is why Jesus gave them the warning of "this generation" God in His mercy let the generation of those who 'killed Jesus' run to it's end.... God's destruction of the temple began with 'the vail' being torn... it was a done deal in 70 AD.

Not to often do we read where when God does stuff it is done in a 'blink of an eye'
The 'children' wondered the desert for 40 years odd how from the time of the Cross to the destruction of the temple was about 40 years... Jesus was in the desert how many days? How long did it rain?

Before some one yells at me I know Jesus gave his life... I am waiting His return
 
Also we have to consider the original questions asked by the disciples.

In Matthew, he records two distinct and different questions.

While Luke writes of only one question. So it stands to reason the language of The Lord's answer in Luke would be different than that of Matthews.

Matthew records -

2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"


  1. when will these things be ie; the destruction of the temple.
  2. what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?


The Lord is challenged with answering two questions here, both of which happen in the same place, yet at different times!


Matthew records different language. For good reason Luke records only one question, which in return Jesus' answer is more detailed concerning the events of the question asked.


To me, The Holy Spirit is brilliant, in conveying this difficult task of explaining two events that happen in the same place, yet at different times, by the structure of the questions in Luke and in Matthew. Once you see this, then seemingly difficult verse's begin to make sense.


Luke records - 21:6-7

6 "These things which you see--the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 7 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"


This question is asking only about the destruction of the temple, unlike what Matthew records - the destruction of the temple and the end of the age!


Once you understand this, then it's clear why Luke only records the events of the destruction of the temple.


Also, notice in Luke's record, there is no reference to Daniel, like there is in Mathew's record.


That's because Luke's record is describing the physical destruction of the temple, while Mathew records the spiritual defilement of it.

Two different events that occur in the same place!
 
How about this?

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.




So, this passage explains that the earth was destroyed by water (i.e the Flood)


Peter then goes on to say the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire.


So, are some of you suggesting this happened in 70AD?
 
Let us be clear on some facts:

To be more accurate, the old covenant ended when the new covenant came into place.

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

BUT, the temple of God is neither part of the old covenant nor a part of the new covenant. Not once it is mentioned in Torah, neither it is specified as a requirement in the law. Not even God asked anyone to build it for Him. It is actually built replacing the sanctuary by Solomon nearly ~500 years later fulfilling David's wish and request.

God did not ask anyone to build a Temple:
(2Sam 7:5-7) "Go and tell My servant David, 'Thus says the LORD: "Would you build a house for Me to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the time that I brought the children of Israel up from Egypt, even to this day, but have moved about in a tent and in a tabernacle. Wherever I have moved about with all the children of Israel, have I ever spoken a word to anyone from the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?' " '

It is actually David's wish and request:
(2Sam 7:2-3) that the king said to Nathan the prophet, "See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwells inside tent curtains." Then Nathan said to the king, "Go, do all that [is] in your heart, for the LORD [is] with you."
(1Kgs 5:5) And behold, I propose to build a house for the name of the LORD my God, as the LORD spoke to my father David, saying, "Your son, whom I will set on your throne in your place, he shall build the house for My name."


Hence, the Temple has absolutely nothing to do with the law or the old covenant.
 
The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

My views on this stuff have changed at one time i was totally dispy .
God tore the vail, He opened the Holy of Holies. I would not say that the destruction of the temple had/has zero meaning...
 
N2 IMO this is why Jesus gave them the warning of "this generation" God in His mercy let the generation of those who 'killed Jesus' run to it's end.... God's destruction of the temple began with 'the vail' being torn... it was a done deal in 70 AD.

Not to often do we read where when God does stuff it is done in a 'blink of an eye'
The 'children' wondered the desert for 40 years odd how from the time of the Cross to the destruction of the temple was about 40 years... Jesus was in the desert how many days? How long did it rain?

Before some one yells at me I know Jesus gave his life... I am waiting His return

Hi Reba,I understand what you are saying,however my position is that,once Christ said it is finished,it was finished,I can't see it being days or months later....

Once the veil was torn,anyone at that time could go straight to God,meaning the temple had nothing to do with the end of the Old Covenant...........
 
Some thing i think we all can agree on... God gave us such a book ... We can discuss it for years and years. Been in discussion a few good years already and will continue till He returns... Then we may even hear the "I told you sos" :wave
 
How about this?

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

So, this passage explains that the earth was destroyed by water (i.e the Flood)

Peter then goes on to say the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire.

So, are some of you suggesting this happened in 70AD?

Peter also wrote this:

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

The epistle of I Peter was written no later than 68 AD, and was probably written around 64 - 65 AD. The "end of all things" he would have alluded to here is the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple that Christ had told him would happen before his generation had passed away.

Yes, the end of all things critical to Jewish culture, religion, and national identity occurred in 70 AD. Stop reading these passages as though they were meant for you.
 
My views on this stuff have changed at one time i was totally dispy .
God tore the vail, He opened the Holy of Holies. I would not say that the destruction of the temple had/has zero meaning...

70 AD is for a very specific reason:

(Luke 19:43-44) "For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."

Prophecy of 70 AD.

(Mic 3:12) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed [like] a field, Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, And the mountain of the temple Like the bare hills of the forest.

(Jer 26:18) "Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts: "Zion shall be plowed [like] a field, Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, And the mountain of the temple Like the bare hills of the forest." '

No way these prophecies are related to end times.
 
Peter also wrote this:

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

The epistle of I Peter was written no later than 68 AD, and was probably written around 64 - 65 AD. The "end of all things" he would have alluded to here is the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple that Christ had told him would happen before his generation had passed away.

Yes, the end of all things critical to Jewish culture, religion, and national identity occurred in 70 AD. Stop reading these passages as though they were meant for you.

Peter himself explains in it very well.

(2Pet 3:1-10) Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in [both of] which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of creation. For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world [that] then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth [which] are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning [His] promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
 
OK. So then can I put you down in the column of those whose literal view of certain passages in the Bible would've made no sense whatsoever to a first century Jewish audience, too? :shame

Anyone can make assertions about the "first century Jewish audience".

Your teaching would always have been recognized as heretical.
 
Back
Top