This is a terrible evil

[jasonc]

Not with negative real interest rates.

SS is set on bonds which the gov't type can less then a percent.besides taking money by force is helping the poor to save? Why not educate him on how to make money and invest?

Cato has an example of how much better the 401k would do of they took the same amount as ss and its more.

 

[jasonc]

Jason,

That is the case generally but I worked for not-for-profits as a counsellor and counselling manager for a hunk of my working life. Now the govt. has compulsory superannuation for the employed as it knows it can't continue to fund social services, pensioner payments, health & dental services, and education.

I don't yet have my Age Pension, but it should come through soon (12 months after my application in mid Dec 2016). It will be $890 a fortnight (every 2 weeks) with some rent assistance of about $110 a fortnight. As a single-again bloke, I'll just manage - I think.

Oz

Two grand a month here ,even single isn't much. Rent would take about half unless you were on section 8 .

 

[jasonc]

My former pension was on superannuation it wasn't enough and unless they took more,way more or taxed the residents more ,raised utilities rates,far more costly then taxation .they decided since it was 59 percent funded to end it and pay those invested.my.fil retired in 77 and collected his pension at 55 or close and is 85.he has received more then he put in.I was told years ago in one year I would burn up what I put in .the workers and tax payers and bond gains were paying the current reciepents.now it's a taxed paid trust fund .

 

[OzSpen]

Two grand a month here ,even single isn't much. Rent would take about half unless you were on section 8 .

Jason,

I'm helped by the fact I have my own unit in a 55+ village and the 'rent' is $290 a fortnight. The 'rent' is the maintenance fee for the village. However, at that rate when I haven't received the pension is of great concern financially.

Electricity prices here have skyrocketed. See: Origin announces energy price hikes for customers in SA, NSW and .

I take action where I can. Will be making an appointment to see my local federal member of parliament to see if she can rattle the cage for me.

Oz

 

[Michael74]

The majority can't outperform the balanced 60/40 index fund.

 

[jasonc]

Jason,

I'm helped by the fact I have my own unit in a 55+ village and the 'rent' is $290 a fortnight. The 'rent' is the maintenance fee for the village. However, at that rate when I haven't received the pension is of great concern financially.

I take action where I can. Will be making an appointment to see my local federal member of parliament to see if she can rattle the cage for me.

Oz

I remember when rent was that low a mere few years ago.

We have 55 plus here but most of those are condos ,one I go onto alot and now my favorite route is a trailer park. I like the fact I can take photos of this nature while working as its on the route.

 

[Douglas Summers]

So a union making the same promise of defined benefits pension is different?

Who pays that,certainty not the recipient, the business via pricing the product higher then it will be sold for to keep that pension. A 80 buck a month plan saved for 20 years can't produce a pension of 1550 a month .

Hi jasonc, I;m not sure I understand your post? Are you saying that they need to raise the price to pay for pensions?

 

[jasonc]

Hi jasonc, I;m not sure I understand your post? Are you saying that they need to raise the price to pay for pensions?

Yes it's a part of the cost or they went cheap on parts which gm admitted too.

 

[Mike]

Here's the thing. The bottom 50% of Americans can't afford to subsidize medical research for the entire world. Paying cash for expensive meds would just result in the less well to do skipping meds.

My point was that the incentive of financial gain, for better or worse, drives advances and breakthroughs in discovery. People who demonize the corporations that experience financial boons don't know what kind of stagnation in research they are promoting. Private investors will rarely avail their resources when that carrot is removed. New molecules are seldom discovered in labs outside the U.S., because the incentive is still there.

 

[Michael74]

The median 401k balance of the 65 plus group is only about $70,000. With a recommended withdrawal rate of 4%, that means a median income of about $233 per month. The majority is dependent upon Social Security.

 

[Michael74]

My point was that the incentive of financial gain, for better or worse, drives advances and breakthroughs in discovery. People who demonize the corporations that experience financial boons don't know what kind of stagnation in research they are promoting. Private investors will rarely avail their resources when that carrot is removed. New molecules are seldom discovered in labs outside the U.S., because the incentive is still there.

All true, but the bottom half still can't afford it. Only the rich can afford to subsidize research for the entire world.

 

[jasonc]

The median 401k balance of the 65 plus group is only about $70,000. With a recommended withdrawal rate of 4%, that means a median income of about $233 per month. The majority is dependent upon Social Security.

So we shouldn't encourage savings?
It's a tax ,if I invested 13 percent of my income I would beat ss.I know it won't be there ,military pension is in place yet I paid for it!

 

[Michael74]

So we shouldn't encourage savings?

Of course we should encourage saving. The best way to encourage saving is with honest money. Most people won't save if they think their savings will be inflated away before they get a chance to spend it.

 

[Michael74]

Norway invests its pension fund in global stocks. It is worth about $190,000 for each of Norway's 5.2 million citizens. Of course, stocks are currently in a mania. The third one since the 1990s.

 

[Michael74]

It's a tax ,if I invested 13 percent of my income I would beat ss.

Chile switched to such a system, and the average monthly pension from it is only about $315.

 

[jasonc]

Chile switched to such a system, and the average monthly pension from it is only about $315.

Versus age 70 and working? Ss when were on the Gold standard was going broke .it was tweaked twice before we went off the gold standard.

If I were to die today my.wife doesn't get both incomes but the higher one.if i.have no survivors ,ie spouse ,the feds keep all.my money.

Chile probably can make it off that.my old pension plan if it remained aND it took less was going to more then ss promised me at the Same Age!

The problem here is less workers ,and they have raised the age a few times.full collection for me isn't the same as my wife .

Even my old pension allows a lump sum or monthly percentage of a payment upon my death.

 

[jasonc]

Of course we should encourage saving. The best way to encourage saving is with honest money. Most people won't save if they think their savings will be inflated away before they get a chance to spend it.

Yet ss can't work without a central bank fiat system nor even with a central bank and on Gold.ss,pay outs Exceed the Dod budget!

 

[jasonc]

Btw my 401 a is 12 percent if things remain as i.have seen i.will be close to what ss promises me and saved only for 25 years.

 

[Michael74]

Btw my 401 a is 12 percent if things remain as i.have seen i.will be close to what ss promises me and saved only for 25 years.

I hope it works out that way. Bonds have negative real interest rates, and stocks are in a mania. Manias tend to mean future return is minimal for a decade or so. There is a reason private companies have mostly given up trying to fund defined benefit pensions. You should keep funding your 401k though, as a supplement to Social Security. It was never intended to be the elderly's sole income.

I think Social Security will be there for you, but maybe trimmed a bit. BTW, that payroll tax you pay also funds Medicare. Without it you would have to buy a private insurance policy at 65. Ever price those for a 65 to 85 year old?

 

[jasonc]

I hope it works out that way. Bonds have negative real interest rates, and stocks are in a mania. Manias tend to mean future return is minimal for a decade or so. There is a reason private companies have mostly given up trying to fund defined benefit pensions.

I think Social Security will be there for you, but maybe trimmed a bit. BTW, that payroll tax you pay also funds Medicare. Without it you would have to buy a private insurance policy at 65. Ever price those for a 65 to 85 year old?

You pay medicate at 65.my.dad does. I.will be in tricare ,not medicare.military retirees can decide.I will make more as a guard retiree then any ss check.

Medicare,broke ,you pay combined 6.4 percent until you collect then you pay the monthly fee subtracted from your ss check.which is all taxable if you make enough!!!!!!!.I will .my wife is disabled and collects. Her income is taxable!