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#1
the planet needs 3 or 4 more Vatican like places, different being these all handle the church within first. Before outside relations. to hell with all of this blame and everything else spineless in regard to the gospel and the God on Nazis and Hitler. where were/are those other countries?
somebody build a Vatican like place, in other countries, Italy is strained, the little men an truth that remain. A Jesus Christ, church epicenter, handling strictly religious matters, the church itself within, in that country or nearby surrounding areas, a fortification, Christian cleansing, specialists and professionals. Lets see someone take responsibility initiative, take charge, lets see your front line men, pioneers, leaders who follow no one but by faith and Christ's bible, all of humanity. Make something from nothing, no safety net, different from the majority of billions and billions of people. The impossible is possible with God, he is rich to all who call on him and anyone who does will be saved
 

for_his_glory

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#2
Jesus is not the church nor a religion. Jesus is the word of God made flesh to be a light unto the world that through His life, death and resurrection all can reconcile themselves back to God. John 1:1-5; John 3:5, 6; Romans 10:9, 10.
 
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#3
the planet needs 3 or 4 more Vatican like places, different being these all handle the church within first. Before outside relations. to hell with all of this blame and everything else spineless in regard to the gospel and the God on Nazis and Hitler. where were/are those other countries?
somebody build a Vatican like place, in other countries, Italy is strained, the little men an truth that remain. A Jesus Christ, church epicenter, handling strictly religious matters, the church itself within, in that country or nearby surrounding areas, a fortification, Christian cleansing, specialists and professionals. Lets see someone take responsibility initiative, take charge, lets see your front line men, pioneers, leaders who follow no one but by faith and Christ's bible, all of humanity. Make something from nothing, no safety net, different from the majority of billions and billions of people. The impossible is possible with God, he is rich to all who call on him and anyone who does will be saved
Sounds like the inquisition.
FORCE people to believe.

I'm not sure that's what you said...
I'm not sure WHAT you said...
:confused2
 

StoveBolts

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#4
Sounds like the inquisition.
FORCE people to believe.

I'm not sure that's what you said...
I'm not sure WHAT you said...
:confused2
I'm inclined to agree, as I felt the same just.
I always felt the gospel lived out in our lives was to be a light in a dark world. It's not about piety, but rather compassion and mercy because the cleansing God offers, is a cleansing of the heart, and that effects our actions and deeds through faith because we believe Gods way is the best way, and sometimes that takes courage. Anything else and it's simply works that will be burned in the fire.
 
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#5
I'm inclined to agree, as I felt the same just.
I always felt the gospel lived out in our lives was to be a light in a dark world. It's not about piety, but rather compassion and mercy because the cleansing God offers, is a cleansing of the heart, and that effects our actions and deeds through faith because we believe Gods way is the best way, and sometimes that takes courage. Anything else and it's simply works that will be burned in the fire.
Absolutely!

If I know my history, the inquisition didn't work.
Kind of like Prohibition.

But you know me....
Works (or force) cannot bring us to God,
but once we know Him and want to serve Him we do have to obey Him.

I've been hearing too much talk lately that obedience is not necessary.
 

StoveBolts

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#6
Absolutely!

If I know my history, the inquisition didn't work.
Kind of like Prohibition.

But you know me....
Works (or force) cannot bring us to God,
but once we know Him and want to serve Him we do have to obey Him.

I've been hearing too much talk lately that obedience is not necessary.
But do we obey him because we are fearfull of retribution and consequence, or do we obey him because we are in a right relationship with him, which motivates us to trust him knowing he has our best interest at stake, even when we don't understand?
 
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#7
But do we obey him because we are fearfull of retribution and consequence, or do we obey him because we are in a right relationship with him, which motivates us to trust him knowing he has our best interest at stake, even when we don't understand?
I agree with number 2.
But this is always the talk.
Like...What comes first?
I know persons who are saved but who really WORK, (not work) to keep themselves saved.
This is unfortunate. They do this and that in hopes that God will be pleased.

This is wrong. God must be involved in our works.

However, it's also wrong to say that works are not necessary.
We're going from one extreme to the other.

Did you know that in the early church right after Jesus' resurrection there was no concept of salvation as we understand it today?

Is this further revelation, or is this Christianity taking a turn for the worse?
 
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R

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#8
It sounds to me like what he is suggesting is several "Christian zones," with Vatican-like central authorities surrounded by communities committed to strict Christian living. That would be an interesting experiment, but it would never work for the same reason Utopian experiments never work: human nature. Or for the same reason the actual Vatican doesn't work: human nature.
 
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#9
It sounds to me like what he is suggesting is several "Christian zones," with Vatican-like central authorities surrounded by communities committed to strict Christian living. That would be an interesting experiment, but it would never work for the same reason Utopian experiments never work: human nature. Or for the same reason the actual Vatican doesn't work: human nature.
:amen
 
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#10
It sounds to me like what he is suggesting is several "Christian zones," with Vatican-like central authorities surrounded by communities committed to strict Christian living. That would be an interesting experiment, but it would never work for the same reason Utopian experiments never work: human nature. Or for the same reason the actual Vatican doesn't work: human nature.
Plus, it sounds a little bit too much like "No Go Zones" in London and Sweden.
(muslim).

Religion can be forced onto a person,
but not FAITH.

Christianity is a faith, a way of life that must be chosen.
 
R

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#11
Plus, it sounds a little bit too much like "No Go Zones" in London and Sweden.
(muslim).

Religion can be forced onto a person,
but not FAITH.

Christianity is a faith, a way of life that must be chosen.
I think the idea would be that you would only live in one of the Christian Zones if you chose to do so and were committed to living by strict Christian principles. The problem would be, the "authorities" would decide what the "Christian principles" were and whether you were abiding by them. In other words, a Christian Zone would end up being about as "harmonious" as, for example, Christian Forums - EEK, I WANNA GO BACK TO ARIZONA!!!
 
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#12
I think the idea would be that you would only live in one of the Christian Zones if you chose to do so and were committed to living by strict Christian principles. The problem would be, the "authorities" would decide what the "Christian principles" were and whether you were abiding by them. In other words, a Christian Zone would end up being about as "harmonious" as, for example, Christian Forums - EEK, I WANNA GO BACK TO ARIZONA!!!
LOL
Right. You're right of course...
Nothing would work well unless we were able to get rid of the Sin Nature first...
And that ain't happenin' !
 
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#13
I think the idea would be that you would only live in one of the Christian Zones if you chose to do so and were committed to living by strict Christian principles. The problem would be, the "authorities" would decide what the "Christian principles" were and whether you were abiding by them. In other words, a Christian Zone would end up being about as "harmonious" as, for example, Christian Forums - EEK, I WANNA GO BACK TO ARIZONA!!!
Are you talking about my church?
 

StoveBolts

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#14
I think the idea would be that you would only live in one of the Christian Zones if you chose to do so and were committed to living by strict Christian principles. The problem would be, the "authorities" would decide what the "Christian principles" were and whether you were abiding by them. In other words, a Christian Zone would end up being about as "harmonious" as, for example, Christian Forums - EEK, I WANNA GO BACK TO ARIZONA!!!
Sounds like a pharasetical sect....
 

StoveBolts

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#15
LOL
Right. You're right of course...
Nothing would work well unless we were able to get rid of the Sin Nature first...
And that ain't happenin' !
Which begs the question.... what purpose in Gods grand scheme does the sin nature play prior to redemption?
 
R

Runner

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#16
Which begs the question.... what purpose in Gods grand scheme does the sin nature play prior to redemption?
That is a question much larger than this thread. I see two prongs to it, both worthy of extensive pondering:
1. The role of sin in God's grand plan. He obviously knew exactly how things were going to go before the foundation of the world. It was no surprise to God when the very first humans went astray.
2. Why He allows the sin nature to remain even after one has turned to Christ. Think how spiffy it would be if those who turned to Christ were instantly freed from the sin nature, and non-believers could see the transformation and the fruits of the Spirit much more clearly than they now do.
The first seems easier to me to answer than the second.
 
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#17
Which begs the question.... what purpose in Gods grand scheme does the sin nature play prior to redemption?
A question which will receive no answer.
Not from anyone I know and some are pretty knowledgeable.
Unfortunately for us, God didn't let us in on everything...just what He thought would be necessary.

All I know is that the sin nature is evil.
Where does evil come from?
Good luck...
 
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#18
That is a question much larger than this thread. I see two prongs to it, both worthy of extensive pondering:
1. The role of sin in God's grand plan. He obviously knew exactly how things were going to go before the foundation of the world. It was no surprise to God when the very first humans went astray.
2. Why He allows the sin nature to remain even after one has turned to Christ. Think how spiffy it would be if those who turned to Christ were instantly freed from the sin nature, and non-believers could see the transformation and the fruits of the Spirit much more clearly than they now do.
The first seems easier to me to answer than the second.
Pondering that hard could give you a big headache.
I wouldn't recommend it.

Just a comment or two:

1. Yes. So why did He create us anyway? And why did Eve bite that fruit if she didn't even have the sin nature yet?

2. Really, did you know that the first Christian theologians were baffled by this? I think I mentioned this in another thread (or this one) about why Catholic Confession exists.
They thought, at the beginning, that persons would just stop sinning.

My belief is that we retain the sin nature, even though it's under submission, because evil is a part of everything and it cannot be eliminated.
 
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#19
Are you talking about my church?
Every church does seem to make up its own rules, doesn't it?
Some more than others.
I don't care for man-made rules. I see some in the O.T. too.
Some churches even tell you that you'll end up in hell if you don't follow them.
:nonono
 
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#20
Every church does seem to make up its own rules, doesn't it?
Some more than others.
I don't care for man-made rules. I see some in the O.T. too.
Some churches even tell you that you'll end up in hell if you don't follow them.
:nonono
They don't all do that?
 

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