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#61
You do understand Ezekiel 28 is directed at the King of Tyre.
Tyre had a huge role in furnishing the holy items in Solomon's Temple. This is what Ezekiel is speaking about.
Agreed. There is no being in the Bible with the name Lucifer, and substituting in Satan doesn’t work either.
 

for_his_glory

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#62
You do understand Ezekiel 28 is directed at the King of Tyre.
Tyre had a huge role in furnishing the holy items in Solomon's Temple. This is what Ezekiel is speaking about.
It is good to keep in mind that Eziekeil was a priest in the order of Aaron and ministered in the Holy Temple prior to the exile. As a result, he used a lot of temple theology in his speak. For example, the rolling wheels with the zillion eyes? That's the temple and it's mount as it relates to Mt. Sinia when the children of Israel went into covenant.

As far as Job, there is much, much more going on than you describe. It's about relationship....
Ezekiel 28 is about the fall of the king of Tyre, which is a dual reference also to the fall of Satan from the Throne Room of God after he was placed as an anointed cherub set over the garden of Eden where iniquity was found in him.
 
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#63
Ezekiel 28 is about the fall of the king of Tyre, which is a dual reference also to the fall of Satan from the Throne Room of God after he was placed as an anointed cherub set over the garden of Eden where iniquity was found in him.
Context,after reading again ,and luther and calvin will.agree with the name lucifer isn't about satan nor is this chapter.

I was taught otherwise but context is the key.is 14 mentions burying a dead lucifer.how does one bury a spirit?
 

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#64
It's also known that Satan was the most beautiful angel and is cast into Gehinnom.

The temple was considered to be eden ? Who is says that? Thats an oral tradition.

You are saying God will redeem.us only to have satan forever tempt us to fall.

Revalation 20:1 to 10

At verse 10 and the devil is cast into the lake of fire If God created satan to be evil and a liar ,why is he punish him,when Angels also forsook their place in heaven?

See revalation 12:7 and 8.

Angels do have freewill.you can't isolate job, you are also ignoring the other chapter isaiah 14
Your view is certainly a view I've heard before, and it's ok that we disagree.
For your own learning, check out the idea about the Temple mirroring Eden.... a place that God dwells etc. It's worth knowing more about it anyway, even if you end up sticking with your current view.
 
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#65
Your view is certainly a view I've heard before, and it's ok that we disagree.
For your own learning, check out the idea about the Temple mirroring Eden.... a place that God dwells etc. It's worth knowing more about it anyway, even if you end up sticking with your current view.
My dad ,a jew,once said wisely Adam wasn't a jew but a gentile.

Jews love to assume incorrectly however poetically they define it that the Torah was first in heaven ,and the earth was made for them.

You do see that. Yes parts of torah certainly do exist prior to Moses and are in God's nature but the earth was meant for man .had Adam not fell we might not have had an isreal. God knew this and that's another nudder thread.
 

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#66
Ezekiel 28 is about the fall of the king of Tyre, which is a dual reference also to the fall of Satan from the Throne Room of God after he was placed as an anointed cherub set over the garden of Eden where iniquity was found in him.
Respectfully, I understand your position as well as this teaching as I once believed and taught as you do now.
It was the passage about the wheels, eyes etc that caused me to stumble across a reference to the psalms, which linked back to Sinai and the smoking mountain... and the biblical manner in which it was presented took the mystery out, and made since. It was there I learned Ezekiel was a priest and ministered in the Temple prior to exile. His language was common among the priests.
The same occurred to me when I stumbled across a picture that painted the tabernacle, and then the Temple as Eden... a place where God dwelt on earth in harmony with humanity.
Before you disagree, I would only ask that you have an open mind and study this view for yourself. It won't hurt you...
 
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#67
My dad ,a jew,once said wisely Adam wasn't a jew but a gentile.

Jews love to assume incorrectly however poetically they define it that the Torah was first in heaven ,and the earth was made for them.

You do see that. Yes parts of torah certainly do exist prior to Moses and are in God's nature but the earth was meant for man .had Adam not fell we might not have had an isreal. God knew this and that's another nudder thread.
I do miss those chats of jewry.
Respectfully, I understand your position as well as this teaching as I once believed and taught as you do now.
It was the passage about the wheels, eyes etc that caused me to stumble across a reference to the psalms, which linked back to Sinai and the smoking mountain... and the biblical manner in which it was presented took the mystery out, and made since. It was there I learned Ezekiel was a priest and ministered in the Temple prior to exile. His language was common among the priests.
The same occurred to me when I stumbled across a picture that painted the tabernacle, and then the Temple as Eden... a place where God dwelt on earth in harmony with humanity.
Before you disagree, I would only ask that you have an open mind and study this view for yourself. It won't hurt you...
Also said stones are found in the new temple in revelation 22
 

for_his_glory

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#68
Agreed. There is no being in the Bible with the name Lucifer, and substituting in Satan doesn’t work either.
The king of Tyre is not known by his name in Ezekiel 28, but we know he was the king.
The king of Tyre could never have been an anointed cherub of God as Tyre was an evil place so I see this as not only literal about the king of Tyre, bur also a dual reference for Satan who was in the beginning an anointed cherub that was set over the garden of Eden before his fall
Isaiah 23:1–18; Jeremiah 25:15-22; 27:1–11; Ezekiel 26:1-21– 28:1-19; Joel 3:4-8; Amos 1:9, 10
 
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#69
Angel can mean messenger .

Cyrus was a christos ,a hamashiac.but not the One save all men.
 

for_his_glory

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#70
Respectfully, I understand your position as well as this teaching as I once believed and taught as you do now.
It was the passage about the wheels, eyes etc that caused me to stumble across a reference to the psalms, which linked back to Sinai and the smoking mountain... and the biblical manner in which it was presented took the mystery out, and made since. It was there I learned Ezekiel was a priest and ministered in the Temple prior to exile. His language was common among the priests.
The same occurred to me when I stumbled across a picture that painted the tabernacle, and then the Temple as Eden... a place where God dwelt on earth in harmony with humanity.
Before you disagree, I would only ask that you have an open mind and study this view for yourself. It won't hurt you...
I know Ezekiel was a priest in Gods Temple and about the wheels and all that, but I am talking about the prophecy against the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 that was given to Ezekiel and has nothing to do with the Temple or Jerusalem. The king of Tyre could never be an anointed cherub.
 

for_his_glory

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#71
Context,after reading again ,and luther and calvin will.agree with the name lucifer isn't about satan nor is this chapter.

I was taught otherwise but context is the key.is 14 mentions burying a dead lucifer.how does one bury a spirit?
Are you speaking of Ezekiel 28:14 as it says nothing about burying a dead Lucifer. There is the literal and the prophecy that was given against the king and Tyre, but how can the king be an anointed cherub.
 
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#72
Are you speaking of Ezekiel 28:14 as it says nothing about burying a dead Lucifer. There is the literal and the prophecy that was given against the king and Tyre, but how can the king be an anointed cherub.
A cherub wearing the things if the temple?

You realize that both chapters say that both wanted to be the most high?

Is 14,and also you can't ignore the image of said cherub.

Compare to rev 22.the types of stones are indentical
 

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#73
The king of Tyre is not known by his name in Ezekiel 28, but we know he was the king.
The king of Tyre could never have been an anointed cherub of God as Tyre was an evil place so I see this as not only literal about the king of Tyre, bur also a dual reference for Satan who was in the beginning an anointed cherub that was set over the garden of Eden before his fall
It's a popular teaching but one that is based on eisegesis--one has to read Satan into that passage. There is absolutely no reason to see this as "a dual reference for Satan who was in the beginning an anointed cherub that was set over the garden of Eden before his fall.

Of course the king of Tyre wasn't an anointed cherub--it's simply a metaphor--but that in no way means it is a dual reference to Satan.

Isaiah 23:1–18; Jeremiah 25:15-22; 27:1–11; Ezekiel 26:1-21– 28:1-19; Joel 3:4-8; Amos 1:9, 10
I have no idea what you mean by posting these passages.
 

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#74
I know Ezekiel was a priest in Gods Temple and about the wheels and all that, but I am talking about the prophecy against the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 that was given to Ezekiel and has nothing to do with the Temple or Jerusalem. The king of Tyre could never be an anointed cherub.
If your not open to learning something new, then I certainly don't want to rub you the wrong way.
Jesus said, for those that have ears, listen.
If you have no ears, then I suppose your set in your thinking and it probably won't change being your not interested in learning a different perspective.

Take care sister.
 
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#75
Respectfully, I understand your position as well as this teaching as I once believed and taught as you do now.
It was the passage about the wheels, eyes etc that caused me to stumble across a reference to the psalms, which linked back to Sinai and the smoking mountain... and the biblical manner in which it was presented took the mystery out, and made since. It was there I learned Ezekiel was a priest and ministered in the Temple prior to exile. His language was common among the priests.
The same occurred to me when I stumbled across a picture that painted the tabernacle, and then the Temple as Eden... a place where God dwelt on earth in harmony with humanity.
Before you disagree, I would only ask that you have an open mind and study this view for yourself. It won't hurt you...
I highlighted above...
About 3 years ago I did a little study (little because there's so much to know) about the tabernacle. I found it to be a real blessing --- how it all related to Jesus.

I've never heard of the temple being Equated, or a shadow, of Eden.
How would I go about studying this?
Do you have any reputable online sources?
( I hate using the net to learn...)
If you recommend it, I'd trust it.
 

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#76
I highlighted above...
About 3 years ago I did a little study (little because there's so much to know) about the tabernacle. I found it to be a real blessing --- how it all related to Jesus.

I've never heard of the temple being Equated, or a shadow, of Eden.
How would I go about studying this?
Do you have any reputable online sources?
( I hate using the net to learn...)
If you recommend it, I'd trust it.
It's been a few years ago. Honestly, after the death of my daughter 3 years ago I stopped reading my bible and ended my biblical studies. I'll check around and see what I can find for you. It does feel good to be back on the forum having biblical discussions. Thank you. Your a blessing to me.

I'm pretty sure it was in my Torah commentary from Ramban. I loaned that book out and I've been meaning to get it back.
 
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#77
It's been a few years ago. Honestly, after the death of my daughter 3 years ago I stopped reading my bible and ended my biblical studies. I'll check around and see what I can find for you. It does feel good to be back on the forum having biblical discussions. Thank you. Your a blessing to me.

I'm pretty sure it was in my Torah commentary from Ramban. I loaned that book out and I've been meaning to get it back.
I'm so sorry to hear of this SB
And after all we talked about evil...
It's good to have you back. I also have some problems and this keeps my mind occupied.
I'll be waiting to hear from you...Do your search!
Blessings.
 
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#78
It's been a few years ago. Honestly, after the death of my daughter 3 years ago I stopped reading my bible and ended my biblical studies. I'll check around and see what I can find for you. It does feel good to be back on the forum having biblical discussions. Thank you. Your a blessing to me.

I'm pretty sure it was in my Torah commentary from Ramban. I loaned that book out and I've been meaning to get it back.
www.chabad.org

Gan eden and also a search likely would give some results. I meant to look into that myself since rev 22 implies the temple nigh unto the tree of life and has those colors.
 
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for_his_glory

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#79
StoveBolts, jasonc and Free I will address all three of you at once as I never ask anyone to agree with me and I want to keep this civil between us. This is how I believe by what I read word for word and has nothing to do with any man teaching me.

Isaiah and Ezekiel were given prophecy to speak over the kings of Babylon and Tyre. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are both dual references about Satan as he works through the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre being that Satan is a created angel/spirit and the prince of the power of the air, Ephesians 2:2, and walks to and fro in the earth, Job 1:7.

For the reason of their pride and greed, just like Satan, these two kings and their kingdom is destroyed by God just as Satan will be in Rev 20:10. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the same as the kings of Babylon, Tyre and every king that Satan has and is working through as they have always been kings of a political, economic and false religious system that will be destroyed.

The key words that reference Satan in these two books are Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and Eden and anointed cherub Ezekiel 28: 13, 14.
 

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#80
StoveBolts, jasonc and Free I will address all three of you at once as I never ask anyone to agree with me and I want to keep this civil between us. This is how I believe by what I read word for word and has nothing to do with any man teaching me.

Isaiah and Ezekiel were given prophecy to speak over the kings of Babylon and Tyre. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are both dual references about Satan as he works through the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre being that Satan is a created angel/spirit and the prince of the power of the air, Ephesians 2:2, and walks to and fro in the earth, Job 1:7.

For the reason of their pride and greed, just like Satan, these two kings and their kingdom is destroyed by God just as Satan will be in Rev 20:10. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the same as the kings of Babylon, Tyre and every king that Satan has and is working through as they have always been kings of a political, economic and false religious system that will be destroyed.

The key words that reference Satan in these two books are Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and Eden and anointed cherub Ezekiel 28: 13, 14.
Not a problem, I don't have an issue with your teaching and it's ok that we disagree. I hope I've come across as civil, if not I apologise.
For your own knowledge, you might as well take a look at what were offering a little deeper. It never hurts to know what other teachings are out there.
Take care.