Thou Shalt Not Kill

[Edward]

Some of you are sorta talking about this in another thread and it got me thinking about it...again. So let us unpack this verse in discussion, shall we. No reason to derail the other thread.

Exodus 20: 13
Thou shalt not kill.../

That's a pretty short verse! No details or explanation of what was in the Lord's mind when He wrote it. It seems straight forward, but (we) can be pretty uh, carnally minded at times too. And you know how the Lord is! There's bound to be a deeper meaning to it, and different levels of wisdom and instruction with it.

A new thought about it was put forth to me a while back, and I've been chewing on it. In short, is this talking about the flesh body?

Maybe not. Many other scriptures are indicative of us learning to, not worry or care about the flesh. Die to the flesh it even says. Think not what you will eat or wear...

What if, it wasn't talking about the flesh body at all?!

What then? The spirit. This earth adventure is all about our spirit being taught by God and quickened. To overcome the flesh.

So if we take this verse in context of thou shalt not kill, spirit...how does this change your thinking about it. What would that suggest?

 

[Edward]

We know words can hurt. Deeply. You can hurt someone's spirit with your words, possibly even kill them in spirit.

Scripture says, bridle your tongue. Don't return evil for evil. By our words and thoughts we will be judged.

If thou shalt not kill really means do not damage others in spirit, then this would really throw a spin on it, eh? It wouldn't mean that one can not defend their life, just that...be careful what you say to people (or where children could hear)

 

[Tessa]

Cruel words can seriously damage someone's spirit. They can also drive vulnerable people to suicide. Then the words have killed both body and spirit.

 

[Edward]

Cruel words can seriously damage someone's spirit. They can also drive vulnerable people to suicide. Then the words have killed both body and spirit.

Do you think it's possible that this verse speaks of the spirit instead of the flesh?

It's all about the spirit in scripture. Everywhere, walk by the Spirit, John 4:24, 2 Timothy 1:7, Galatians 5:22, Romans 8:6...

I could go on and on here

 

[Knotical]

To really understand God's intent behind this commandment you have to read through the lense of the sermon on the mount.

Something else to consider is whether we should still kill those who are guilty of murder, or is that a violation of this commandment?

 

[LovethroughDove]

It's both. Flesh and Spirit.

 

[Tessa]

Do you think it's possible that this verse speaks of the spirit instead of the flesh?

It's all about the spirit in scripture. Everywhere, walk by the Spirit, John 4:24, 2 Timothy 1:7, Galatians 5:22, Romans 8:6...

I could go on and on here

I think It's both. But if we break someone's spirit how much worse should we feel. If we take someone's life how could we ever forgive ourselves.
In a military situation you are following the orders of authority. To be quite truthful I have never studied that. To me it is more than above my understanding of right or wrong. We are told to flee. How could we flee dozens of planes dropping bombs or even an nuclear weapon?

 

[Michael74]

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22 NKJV

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22 NKJV

I think that Michael74 hit the nail right on the head here. Murder is killing without a proper cause and I do believe that's what this commandment is referring to.

 

[chessman]

So if we take this verse in context of thou shalt not kill, spirit...how does this change your thinking about it. What would that suggest?

It suggests that you’d be taking it out of context.

If you take that verse in a spiritual context, versus a physical context, then is physical adultery and physical theft okay in the next two??? Just as long as your spirit’s in the right place kind of thing, physical adultery isn’t what’s breaking His commandments???

A new thought about it was put forth to me a while back, and I've been chewing on it. In short, is this talking about the flesh body?

Test your theory out:
...
‘You shall not commit spiritual adultery.’
‘You shall not spiritually steal.’

 

[chessman]

To really understand God's intent behind this commandment you have to read through the lense of the sermon on the mount.

So the people of Israel living in the Centuries prior to the Sermon on the Mount were not understanding His intent?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Honestly, my first instinct would be to look at the original Hebrew and what word was used there, along with it's possible meanings.
More than half of the commandments are literally about treating others well, so I do think it follows to treat them well emotionally and spiritually as well. Emotional abuse is still abuse, even sans the physical components.

 

[Knotical]

So the people of Israel living in the Centuries prior to the Sermon on the Mount were not understanding His intent?

Obviously. Otherwise, there would have been no need for clarification. There is plenty of cases throughout the Bible, especially during Jesus ministry, where the Jews were getting the laws anywhere from slightly to completely wrong. Quite often the Pharisees were using their twisted interpretation of the laws of Moses to hold power over the people.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Love thy neighbour.

 

[chessman]

There is plenty of cases throughout the Bible, especially during Jesus ministry, where the Jews were getting the laws anywhere from slightly to completely wrong.

True, but what of those cases throughout the Bible (prior to the Sermon) where the persons were understanding His commands ??? If one, or a few, understood His intention then doesn’t that mean they where understandable?

Like Moses:

For Moses writes about the righteousness that is from the law: “The person who does this will live by it.”​

Romans 10:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 10:5&version=LEB

Paul seems to say Moses wrote about righteousness.

Didn’t Moses understand God’s intention through His commands at The Mountain of God?

And Moses stood at the entrance of the camp, and he said, “Whoever is for Yahweh, to me.” And all the sons of Levi were gathered to him. And he said to them, “Thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, ‘Put each his sword on his side. Go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill, each his brother and each his friend and each his close relative.’” And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses, and from the people on that day about three thousand persons fell. And Moses said, “ You are ordained today for Yahweh, because each has been against his son and against his brother and so bringing on you today a blessing.”​

Exodus 32:26-29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Exodus 32:26-29&version=LEB

Or David, a man after God’s heart:

And after removing him, he raised up David for their king, about whom he also said, testifying, ‘I have found David the son of Jesse to be a man in accordance with my heart, who will carry out all my will.’​

Acts 13:22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 13:22&version=LEB

Or John the Baptist preaching repentance prior to the Sermon on the Mount:

in the time of the high priest Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. And the crowds were asking him, saying, “What then should we do?” And he answered and said to them, “The one who has two tunics must share with the one who does not have one, and the one who has food must do likewise.” And tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, what should we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than what you are ordered to.” And those who served in the army were also asking him, saying, “What should we also do?” And he said to them, “Extort from no one, and do not blackmail anyone, and be content with your pay.” [“You shall not steal. “‘You shall not exploit your neighbor, and you shall not rob him; a hired worker’s wage you shall not withhold overnight until morning. Leviticus 19:13]​

Luke 3:2,10-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:2,10-14&version=LEB

 

[JohnDB]

The Ten Commandments are about physical acts... almost.
But as Jesus said, it's more about heart condition and wanting to commit the acts that is the sin.

And the Sermon on the Mount stuff is more about your heart condition. It's like being mildly irritated at someone versus being really angry. What you won't even dream about getting in trouble for here on Earth will get you in trouble in heaven.

Do we get angry at the behavior or the person doing it? Why?

It's impossible to be sin-free.
We must have a Savior. We ain't gonna make it otherwise.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

The Ten Commandments are about physical acts... almost.
But as Jesus said, it's more about heart condition and wanting to commit the acts that is the sin.

And the Sermon on the Mount stuff is more about your heart condition. It's like being mildly irritated at someone versus being really angry. What you won't even dream about getting in trouble for here on Earth will get you in trouble in heaven.

Do we get angry at the behavior or the person doing it? Why?

It's impossible to be sin-free.
We must have a Savior. We ain't gonna make it otherwise.

I liked your response for the most part but now I have a couple of questions for you:



1. Can you actually get in trouble in Heaven?

2. Just what exactly are your thoughts on self-defense and the death penalty? I'm not sure whether or not you ever mentioned them because I forgot.

 

[JohnDB]

I liked your response for the most part but now I have a couple of questions for you:



1. Can you actually get in trouble in Heaven?

2. Just what exactly are your thoughts on self-defense and the death penalty? I'm not sure whether or not you ever mentioned them because I forgot.

Getting in trouble in heaven is another way of saying getting in trouble with God...once there you won't sin.

And as far as the other stuff...
You need a Savior. Anything else is something else.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Getting in trouble in heaven is another way of saying getting in trouble with God...once there you won't sin.

And as far as the other stuff...
You need a Savior. Anything else is something else.

Amen to all of that and that's what I thought. Once you get to Heaven you won't sin because you won't actually want to sin. I was just curious about your opinions on the subject matter but it's perfectly alright if you don't want to share them. I completely understand.

 

[JohnDB]

Amen to all of that and that's what I thought. Once you get to Heaven you won't sin because you won't actually want to sin. I was just curious about your opinions on the subject matter but it's perfectly alright if you don't want to share them. I completely understand.

My opinion is that God sets up leaders. (Makes people become leaders)
God also deposes leaders.
(Makes them lose their positions)
The things that they do while in office is already known by God.
What laws and policies and regulations they enact are not my concern. That's all God's business and I don't presume to know enough to tell God how to go about doing His job. I got plenty on my plate as it is.