Thoughts on Joel Osteen

[Lewis]

Pastor Shane Idleman's Thoughts on Joel Osteen

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/08/13/pastor-takes-big-ministries-to-task-for-watered-down-truth/
We live in the age of “church growth,” a time when many pastors and church leaders focus on marketing tactics meant to fill pews and stuff coffers. Writing for the Christian Post, Pastor Shane Idleman of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California, exhorts his colleagues to rethink their approach to ministry.

 

[KevinK]

I haven't read through the other big thread, but basically my thoughts are that anyone who says "Some people preach about Hell like you're already going there" is fundamentally not my kind of pastor.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

From the article:

"The truth is often watered-down in the hope of not offending members and building a large audience. Judgment is never mentioned and repentance is rarely sought. We want to grow a church rather than break a heart; be politically correct rather than biblically correct; coddle and comfort rather than stir and convict."
​

He's describing the hyper-grace doctrine that presently grips the church. It pops up right here in these forums over and over again.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I haven't read through the other big thread, but basically my thoughts are that anyone who says "Some people preach about Hell like you're already going there" is fundamentally not my kind of pastor.

That is, certainly, not the Rich Heretic, Joel Osteen. I watched him when I was, seriously, searching and though he shakes the Bible, closed, at the crowd, he never opens it to read the Words of God to the congregation. Doc Holiday, the huge Black man that once did solo numbers for him, between Worship Service and Joel lecturing, is a friend of mine and we drove mixers for TXI Concrete.

Doc led his family from there when he was deep enough into the organization to realize that there are multiple rich homosexuals in the Leadership Team. It is my opinion that would be the reason Joel is not scripturally based. His father, when he led that church, when it was a Church, had a mixed congregation but an open and professing homosexual had no part with the Leadership not the Witnessing Teams.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is typical, some no named goof ball on youtube putting down another mans ministry. Satan operating at about 10% since this youtube/ facebook wannabe is the best he could find to put down someone that speaks to thousands. Satan is a epic failure, Shane is proof of that, very unimpressive.

It's still a bit sad though, and I have to check my own heart as a few things I don't care for. Unbelief, and judging others to get attention. Shane has taken whatever gift and calling he had, and has thrown it away in favor of finger pointing what is wrong with everyone else. Even sinners are great at finding fault, and are real good at pointing out our flaws, making excuses as to why they won't get saved. Shane has not matured past your average sinner, and it's a shame. If He is really called into ministry, He better wake up, or things don't end well for him.

View attachment 7247

Here Shane wrote a book on what is wrong with every else church but his. The book serves as a wake up call it says, and I can promise no Pastor of these churches Shane is pointing out are running out to grab His book and make changes according to Shane's imagination. Not gonna happen. Shane has no business judging another mans ministry and lumping them all into a book is pretty stupid.

The family that stayed with us.
We had 4 kids, and husband and wife stay with us, they ended up homeless. It was cramped, but I practice what I preach, and it was the right thing to do to let them stay.
The wife, I got along with great, the Husband liked to talk bad about my Pastor, and anyone else. He sounded just as confused as Shane, the same satanic spirit. He told me how wrong Oneness was, and how he wrote a letter to an apostolic Pastor explaining why the doctrine of Oneness is wrong.

Well, Mike can only tolerate so much, and to let a fool continually run their mouth in your own home is not being in Control. This Husband's list of grievances included.

Apostolic oneness.
Keith Moore does not work with marriages at his church.
Not enough preaching on sin.

So, I let him have it, I asked him why did you go to an apostolic church? Are you really that stupid not to expect that they believe in Oneness, and you had no business going there and trying to change things?

If you don't like the way Keith Moore is handling marriages, instead of crying like a school girl on a broken record, what are you doing to help marriages? Where is your large ministry to get marriages right, and preach on sin? You point out lots of things other ministers are not doing, what are YOU DOING?

That shut him up, and him and I did not speak but just out of being polite.

I saw him at the store yesterday, but my wife talked to him,I just looked at him. I have no heart for judgmental, crybaby, believers. They better grow up.

Mike

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Hey man, i was just wondering.... ARE YOU FEELING GOOD TODAY?

YEEEE HAAAA

Not really. Life is not easy being a true follower of Christ.

 

[Sparkey]

We live in the age of “church growth,” a time when many pastors and church leaders focus on marketing tactics meant to fill pews and stuff coffers.

The Children of Israel stopped cutting foreskins (were they following their leader?) while in the wilderness and Joshua had to re-institute the practice before entering the Promised Land because it was, AND IS an everlasting covenant. I'm not talking about trying to make people into Jews in physical though but just saying that God will set it right. Judgment comes to the Church first for a very good reason. He does not want his precious sheaves brought into a rat-infested winnowing floor.​

I'd call this an age, not of "church growth" so much but rather corporate church growth. According to the Citizens United v FEC Supreme Court decision, about Corporate Personhood, churches are people too. They are just not as free as other corporate peoples because they are formed under other laws. 501(c)(3) Charity Corporate Persons don't have the same freedom of speech as other corporate persons. There are some very specific restrictions to them corporate peoples too... they are prohibited from speechifying about politics. But that doesn't mean they aren't people too, they are corporate entities, after all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Children of Israel stopped cutting foreskins (were they following their leader?) while in the wilderness and Joshua had to re-institute the practice before entering the Promised Land because it was, AND IS an everlasting covenant. I'm not talking about trying to make people into Jews in physical though but just saying that God will set it right. Judgment comes to the Church first for a very good reason. He does not want his precious sheaves brought into a rat-infested winnowing floor.

Hey, isn't this from another thread?

 

[Sparkey]

I get stuffs 'from here' and give them 'to there' a bunch of times. More than I can count. Typically it's not on the forum, though. But then I'm not self-guarded either. Not really.

Indentation is a way of communicating a quote - I didn't cite it because i quoted myself and don't need to give credit or citation to me for self-quotes. But it's not the first time. I just consider my self quote-worthy, at times, is all.

You're onto the trick of the camel. Water is given to me in one place so that I might deliver it to another. They are all 'dry places' and camels get to carry waters for refreshment, so yes. That's not the broken-wing bird trick. It's the camel function. So yes, you may have heard what I said before. That's just the way it works with me. I love looking around to find places to put things.

It seemed to fit here too, n'cest-ce pas?

I hope you took a second and watched the video. Who knows? Maybe that was given to me for you? I can never be certain. Blind[ed] camel is me. All I know is that this water is good and refreshing and worthy. Me? Watch out! I stink and can spit. But don't tell jocor that I said that, we (he and I) both know that camels are unclean meats because we chew the cud but don't split the hoof, or is that the other way around?

;-p ~~~

 

[Blake]

Although it's worth next to nothing, my opinion is that Joel Olsteen is more of a motivational speaker than he is a pastor. I don't support his ministry, and I don't even honestly consider it a true Christian ministry -- and while it isn't fruitful to consistently dwell on hell fire and brimstone, this speaker seems to have forgotten Jude 1:23... "save others with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Glory to God.

 

[Sparkey]

Although it's worth next to nothing

Ahhh... the note of self-depreciation. Blake? I'm sparrow and although we've not met, I'm a fan of yours. But don't let that go to your head, and I know you won't, because you already know that this kind of fan club is just because we see Christ in each other. Hence, your opinion is worth next to everything. Isn't it? But that's only because the Worthy speaks through us too. He doesn't speak Greek and Aramaic and Hebrew only. (Did Jesus study and speak Hebrew while he was here? I'm unsure.) But that's beside the point; He speaks sparrow and He speaks Blake fluently. He knows us very well, intimately, that is. You are worth more than many sparrows or at least more than a couple assarions, whatever they are! BOOM!

I've been able to glean truth from Joel Olsteen's field before. He's fed me. I just can't buy the 'who-thrust' of the, "Gimme, gimme, gimme..." drum that he pounds so often. It's okay to ask for Mercy for him, just like it's okay to ask for Mercy for a bird too. But not if you see sin leading to death. I don't say, "ask for mercy for that," but then, you don't depend on me for all truth either, just like I don't depend on a 'pastor' (so-called) for all truth. Joel is wrong in many things. He's right in some. Even blind chickens occasionally stumble on a grain of corn.

And I don't hear him going around hen-picking others too much, he's just greed struck like many who are yet to hear the rebuke. Or at least that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[Brother Mike]

Although it's worth next to nothing, my opinion is that Joel Olsteen is more of a motivational speaker than he is a pastor. I don't support his ministry, and I don't even honestly consider it a true Christian ministry -- and while it isn't fruitful to consistently dwell on hell fire and brimstone, this speaker seems to have forgotten Jude 1:23... "save others with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Glory to God.

You know Blake, I was a Pastor, and I spent hours making notes, getting my next great and awesome sermon ready. I had to work with my praise and worship team, get the right "Faith" songs for my awesome and hard worked on sermon. I had stacks of sermon notes I had studied out, and I don't use sermon books, I study scriptures, just me and the Holy Spirit.

I did learn some amazing things in my study time, just me and God, and was able to use in places lots of things I had in those notes.

You know how many of those notes I taught and preached in my own church? ZERO. Not a one. I would mention pieces of different week things I studied out, but never like I planed week after week.

However, God wants us to prepare, and I did my part. When I went up to speak, the Holy Spirit would say, just encourage them, talk about family, talk about trusting me, talk about Druids one Sunday and witchcraft and not that it's sin, but just how much more powerful the Name of Jesus, and the Word of God is compared to anything the devil has. A guy was healed of cancer from that, who practiced Wicca and Druidism.

Unfortunately my people were not scripture hardened believers with great foundations to build on. Homeless, One guy always showed up drunk, some drug addicts and gang bangers. I also had several broken up families that were pretty messed up.

Despite all my great master piece sermons not being used, and I almost got to the point of not bringing my notes, people got healed, set free, and years later those same people are going strong today. In fact, my praise and Worship Leader who was just a mess when I met her, professionally recorded her first CD this year in a Studio at Branson, MO. She came all the way from WI so me and someone else could help her.

So, if I had a idiot come in my church, and tell me that I am not really a Pastor, and tell me I forgot Jude 1:23, I would first ask him to show me His results, ask him how He knows I am missing God despite the hours of prayer and study, and then I would pray for him that God may grant him a brain, and that the same stupid judgement He gave on me, would not come on him and effect His life, since He wonders why things go wrong from time to time in His own life, not understanding we are to edify, and encourage, and not judge another mans things. Then explain to him the laws of having to reap what you constantly sow.

DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves. For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
(Mat 7:1-2)


Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

And I don't hear him going around hen-picking others too much, he's just greed struck like many who are yet to hear the rebuke. Or at least that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Do I have to give my mature friend the same spiel that I gave Blake? Greed struck? How about blessed. Joel has always obeyed God, and Joel never speaks bad about anyone. He had no idea how to fill his Fathers shoes, but He obeyed God and wrote his first book, and that book brought in tons of money He did not even expect.

I suppose Abraham was Greed struck according to your definition, He had more gold, and cattle in price today that would have made Joel look like a pauper. We happen to be Abraham's seed, and heir of his. If you watch Joel, he does not go after money, does not "Entice" people to give, does not say do anything but be faithful.

In fact, Joel does not even harp on tithing, or mention it very often.

Mike.

 

[Sparkey]

Do I have to give my mature friend

I was speaking of corporate churches in general. The Term "Joel Osteen" is a trademark. I said that I've been fed by him. I've been fed by you too.

Do you have to? No. Do you want to? I can tell that you do. There's nothing that I can do about that either, now is there?

Oh, and for PC (Political Correctness) I am your maturing friend. That keeps us in the same group, or I hope it does.

I suppose Abraham was Greed struck according to your definition

You have not, HAVE NOT, heard my definition. You just heard what you think of as a criticism and JUMP to your predefined conclusion. But if you want, you may call me and I'll give you my definition.

Joel never speaks bad about anyone

That's what I said when I said he was not a chicken-picker (it was meant to sound like "chicken-pecker" who are those who peck on the foreheads of others to establish pecking order). Sheesh. If you can't hear, how can you reply? Huh? What is it? Peck on sparrow day? Because if it is, I'm gonna rejoice. I've been looking forward to being treated unjustly while I was striving for righteousness sake. O! Happy Day, right?

If you watch Joel, he does not go after money, does not "Entice" people to give, does not say do anything but be faithful.

So tell me again how it is that his corporation is hittin the top of the dollar chart? It's because he does NOT 'entice' people? I gave you more credit than that, my friend. Coporations are people too. I'm not talking about Joel. I spoke about the 501(c)(3) as a corporate person. Did you not hear me?

 

[Sparkey]

It has been reported that Osteen stopped taking a $200,000 salary from Lakewood Church in 2005 and that his estimated net worth is $40 million. He also lives in a $10.5 million 17,000 square foot home with six bedrooms, six bathrooms, three elevators, five fireplaces, a guest house and pool house.

Lakewood Church takes in an incredible amount of money every week.

Chelsea Schilling points out:

The New York Times reported Lakewood Church – former home of the Houston Rockets – features a 16,000-seat arena, three enormous television screens, two waterfalls, enough carpeting to cover nine football fields, a café with wireless Internet access, 32 video game kiosks and a vault to hold the church offering. In March of this year, burglars reportedly stole at least $600,000 from the church safe, which was a portion of the donation from just one weekend of services.​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

my praise and Worship Leader who was just a mess when I met her, professionally recorded her first CD this year in a Studio at Branson, MO.

I've been praying for a record deal, can you help me?

You should hear me do 'Amazing Grace'.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I like Joel Osteen.
Those few time when I was sick, down and out and couldn't make it to church, I would watch Joel Osteen.
And he would always give me a lift that I needed.
And that's more than I can say for any of the others on tv.

 

[Blake]

You know Blake, I was a Pastor, and I spent hours making notes, getting my next great and awesome sermon ready. I had to work with my praise and worship team, get the right "Faith" songs for my awesome and hard worked on sermon. I had stacks of sermon notes I had studied out, and I don't use sermon books, I study scriptures, just me and the Holy Spirit.

I did learn some amazing things in my study time, just me and God, and was able to use in places lots of things I had in those notes.

You know how many of those notes I taught and preached in my own church? ZERO. Not a one. I would mention pieces of different week things I studied out, but never like I planed week after week.

However, God wants us to prepare, and I did my part. When I went up to speak, the Holy Spirit would say, just encourage them, talk about family, talk about trusting me, talk about Druids one Sunday and witchcraft and not that it's sin, but just how much more powerful the Name of Jesus, and the Word of God is compared to anything the devil has. A guy was healed of cancer from that, who practiced Wicca and Druidism.

Unfortunately my people were not scripture hardened believers with great foundations to build on. Homeless, One guy always showed up drunk, some drug addicts and gang bangers. I also had several broken up families that were pretty messed up.

Despite all my great master piece sermons not being used, and I almost got to the point of not bringing my notes, people got healed, set free, and years later those same people are going strong today. In fact, my praise and Worship Leader who was just a mess when I met her, professionally recorded her first CD this year in a Studio at Branson, MO. She came all the way from WI so me and someone else could help her.

So, if I had a idiot come in my church, and tell me that I am not really a Pastor, and tell me I forgot Jude 1:23, I would first ask him to show me His results, ask him how He knows I am missing God despite the hours of prayer and study, and then I would pray for him that God may grant him a brain, and that the same stupid judgement He gave on me, would not come on him and effect His life, since He wonders why things go wrong from time to time in His own life, not understanding we are to edify, and encourage, and not judge another mans things. Then explain to him the laws of having to reap what you constantly sow.

DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves. For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
(Mat 7:1-2)


Mike.

But the thing about all of this that I have a hard time understanding, is that you find it wrong for Joel Olsteen to come under criticism or rebuke (neither criticism nor rebuke are wrong, they have their place in sharpening the believer), but you have no real problem letting me know that I am wrong. I, of course, have no problem being wrong, I'm under no presumption that I'm always right. But I'm just having trouble understanding why we cannot scrutinize this pastor who has such massive reach -- not so much out of spite but to see if his followers are being led astray -- but yet you are fine letting me know that I am wrong in this. Are we not to see who else is wrong?

As for Mat 7:1-2, I am as bound to that as anyone. But the Bible also tells us not to judge based upon appearances, but to judge with righteous judgment. It also tells us that the spiritual person judges all things. Not to mention "When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, ..."

Rarely do I take it upon myself to make any sort of judgment, being barely weened from the milk myself. I take no pleasure in calling things as I see them with Joel Olsteen, but I don't think I'm wrong. I think we should take Matthew seriously and be on guard against false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing.

And all that aside, to name me or some other joe an "idiot" is such a lack of personal charity that your message falls short, Brother Mike. Contrary to Joel Olsteen who delivers pure fluff, you deliver vitriol and condescension. I, in my life, am deserving of both. Still, I think people would be more pressed to accept your sharpening if they didn't feel like you were personally insulting them.

God bless, sir.

 

[turnorburn]

Do I have to give my mature friend the same spiel that I gave Blake? Greed struck? How about blessed. Joel has always obeyed God, and Joel never speaks bad about anyone. He had no idea how to fill his Fathers shoes, but He obeyed God and wrote his first book, and that book brought in tons of money He did not even expect.

I suppose Abraham was Greed struck according to your definition, He had more gold, and cattle in price today that would have made Joel look like a pauper. We happen to be Abraham's seed, and heir of his. If you watch Joel, he does not go after money, does not "Entice" people to give, does not say do anything but be faithful.

In fact, Joel does not even harp on tithing, or mention it very often.

Mike.

In fact, Joel does not even harp on tithing, or mention it very often.

He doesn't preach about hell either.. and without mention of that my friend he's preaching another gospel..

tob

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I like Joel Osteen.
Those few time when I was sick, down and out and couldn't make it to church, I would watch Joel Osteen.
And he would always give me a lift that I needed.
And that's more than I can say for any of the others on tv.

Next time watch this guy...
http://www.roncarpenter.com/