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Thoughts on Joel Osteen

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Joel sounds a whole like lot what folks here believe. IN the dark places is where we grow, A place God can use to teach us to trust Him. .
You'll be hard pressed to find anything wrong with Joel's 'Bloom Where You're Planted' message.
I was crucified in another forum a few years back for defending it, even though there was NOTHING out of line in the entire teaching. I bought it for $8 and quoted it at length for them, challenging all the crap they were accusing him of, but I was still crucified for the effort.
 
Drinking in and of itself is not a sin.
It's impossible to put a positive spin on homosexual marriage. There is no right and approved way to be a practicing homosexual.
The problem here is that every homosexual you know is probably a "practicing" homosexual.... so, do you, then, start shunning them all?
 
This is where I'm at with him.
If your heart is pure you'll get the truth out of what he says.
If you have a golden idol in your heart you will get what serves that idol out of what he says.
You got it. We humans are prone to projection. I know now from experience that I listened to a lot of these preachers from the law, but not from the spirit.
 
The problem here is that every homosexual you know is probably a "practicing" homosexual.... so, do you, then, start shunning them all?
Why is not shunning someone, and approving of their behavior exactly equivalent? Don't you think it's entirely possible to receive someone in Christ's love, yet be entirely clear on where you stand concerning their sinful behavior?

I have learned from my own experience that people who don't want to applaud sin, and who do not want to keep their Christianity a secret, learn how to stay strong in their convictions without alienating the 'sinners' around them. God's love teaches us how to do that.

I keep my Christianity up front and visible so that, truthfully, I have little danger of a homosexual inviting me to his wedding. And if he does, God's love has taught me how to handle it without appearing to have caved into my convictions. I have four adult kids. I've learned how to actively show your love for sinners while making very clear you do not condone or approve of what they do. It's an art. And God is teaching those art lessons.
 
Believers just LOVE to hear all the good things of God. They will pay out the nose to hear these things. And if some people are good at delivering that message, and get a fat bank account in the process, they MUST be right, as proven by their financial success.

Pardon me for my jaded sights of such manipulations, done for cash, "in the church."
 
Believers just LOVE to hear all the good things of God. They will pay out the nose to hear these things. And if some people are good at delivering that message, and get a fat bank account in the process, they MUST be right, as proven by their financial success.

Pardon me for my jaded sights of such manipulations, done for cash, "in the church."
Don't throw away the truths of God's prosperity just because others have twisted it for personal financial gain, or seems to have.

I bet you have a better house and cars than I do (I'm dead serious), and you prolly thank God for them, and rightfully so, recognizing where they ultimately come from. Yet, you slam financial success as not being from God(?)
 
We humans are prone to projection.
Yes, projection. An evil we must all repent of.

I was explaining to my son recently how life is ALL about perceptions....how we perceive things to be, not how they may actually be. We tend to measure everything according to what's going on inside of us and how we perceive things to be instead of how they might actually be.
 
Yes, projection. An evil we must all repent of.

I was explaining to my son recently how life is ALL about perceptions....how we perceive things to be, not how they may actually be. We tend to measure everything according to what's going on inside of us and how we perceive things to be instead of how they might actually be.
Truth bomb. Drop the mic.

I learned a lot about this from Joyce. People rail on "positive thinking" but it has changed my life. I've learned that I can truly change a bad day by changing bad thoughts. My work stress has at least halved because I've stopped looking at it by how I've felt, and started investing in how I wanted it to be. These revelations are of God. Carnality will have us living through the senses, but the spiritual man knows that he can reap a good day by sewing the seed of good thoughts.
 
The problem here is that every homosexual you know is probably a "practicing" homosexual
The point being, if a homosexual is getting married he's obviously a practicing homosexual.
I contrast that with a person who is homosexual, still being attracted to the same sex, but who has repented of the lifestyle because of their faith in Christ. The arms of fellowship should be wide open to such a person. Those arms are open for us straight people who struggle with old desires, but don't purposely walk in them, right?
 
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Truth bomb. Drop the mic.

I learned a lot about this from Joyce. People rail on "positive thinking" but it has changed my life. I've learned that I can truly change a bad day by changing bad thoughts. My work stress has at least halved because I've stopped looking at it by how I've felt, and started investing in how I wanted it to be. These revelations are of God. Carnality will have us living through the senses, but the spiritual man knows that he can reap a good day by sewing the seed of good thoughts.
It's amazing that you're saying this.

Just yesterday I had to relearn this truth all over again. My day life transformed from night to day by casting off the burden of some thoughts I had been harboring about things/people/situations I have been struggling with recently.

I realized I had lost God's manifest fellowship by indulging those thoughts. His life came back in like a flood when I hit the closet at work in prayer and repented. The recurring sickness that was sapping my strength and motivation even shrunk away. This scripture is actually what led me to realize what was happening to me:

"30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. " (1 Corinthians 11:30-31 NIV)

It's amazing how the renewed vigor and life that God gives in exchange for godly thoughts and living stirs up all kinds of holy ambitions and a desire to live in me. It's an amazing contrast with the death that rules me otherwise. This is God's prosperity message. He gives life and abundance to those who live for him and reject evil.
 
My thoughts about Joel are that I think he preaches a prosperity gospel and should be handled with caution. From a motivational perspective, he might have something to offer but from a Christian perspective I think he could be dangerous.
That's so well said it deserves a 'bumpity-bumpy-bump'
:bump

There is balance in all things; don't go walking on tight ropes without it.
 
That's so well said it deserves a 'bumpity-bumpy-bump'
:bump

There is balance in all things; don't go walking on tight ropes without it.

I found the video Willie T put up to be very Christian.
It sure beats a lot of sermons I hear in my church and a lot of churches I've been to over the years.
 
Okay, thanks. I haven't played the Video... I'll fetch and listen ... one moment, fetching... processing...

Training Horses! (Training our flesh)
LIGHT in the DARK PLACES (by Joel)​


I think that the call is going out to all.
To all who will hear.
I think that our Savior is unwilling... (you might know this exactly) ... but, that He is very UNWILLING. Did you know that Jesus is unwilling?

But before you raise your hand and / or toss a flag on that play, saying that Jesus is WILLING(!) and it's us that are unwilling? Let me finish the thought. Jesus is UNWILLING that any should perish, but that all whom are given to Him by His Father in Heaven are saved and He Will Not Sleep until all is done.

Joel speaks about going through dark places prior to being elevated to places of glory. We grow in the dark places. "Our Spiritual 'muscles' are getting stronger," and we pray more while we are in dark places.

Joel has a gift. It might be a very natural gift. One sown into Him by God Himself, even while He was being knitted in the womb. He gives milk. He chews the steaks and the meat of the Word of God and gives out milk.

Balance in all things.

I still think that WIP said it well. Better well than me. I've listened to the vid and have been blessed to hear what I know is the truth. You'll know it when you hear it too. Even if it does come through our brother, Joe. He's not a pastor for everyone, but then? He doesn't pretend to be. Lots of milk there. Undeniably so.

Verily, verily, I say to you: It's worth the listen and then some. I do not lie to you in this. The video is worth listening to, Just as Willie T implied and just as Rollo said.

Too often we want the "overflow" and not the "valley". Often, we have to go through the valley, to get to the High Places -- "IF you're not faithful in the Wilderness? How can God trust you to be Faithful in the Promised Land?"
(quoting Joel from the video posted above) <---- Just because he is oftentimes 'trite' does not mean he's necessarily wrong... LOL I could only listen to his flavor of preach for 20 minutes -- the whole video is 50 minutes long, but I'm pretty sure that no snakes will jump out and bite you with poor doctrine hidden under their tongue. But it is like drinking a ping of milk for breakfast, followed by 2 quarts for lunch, then then? Yep! Let's drink a gallon of milk for supper too, right?

Hey! I'm hungry. What shall I have for a late night snack? Milk maybe? Go to Joel. He's got all the mulk you want.
 
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Don't throw away the truths of God's prosperity just because others have twisted it for personal financial gain, or seems to have.

I've sat under the best of the 'name it and claim it' crowd. Had their blessings heaped upon me, particularly so when I had my checkbook in hand. Then "they" wanted me to sit up front, in the purple covered chairs, as an elder. They wanted to "share" their ways with me. That is when conviction came:

Matthew 23:
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

Jesus, by His Word above, asked me "if" I really wanted to be "that man." I said, Nope. I'll pass on the chief seat with the purple covering. And THANK YOU Lord, for giving me that reminder.
I bet you have a better house and cars than I do (I'm dead serious), and you prolly thank God for them, and rightfully so, recognizing where they ultimately come from. Yet, you slam financial success as not being from God(?)

Yes, I have tasted, close enough, to the "supposed" God's Prosperity, and found it to be a curse to the soul. It caused thieves and liars by the score, by the boatload, to come to my door, and to bow before me in false honor. They wanted, these various thieves and liars, to carry me up, and to put me on even higher pedestals. To hear what I hear, to do what I did, in order that they too could have what I had (or have.) I hate the authority that money and power brought to me, because it was false. And how it caused others to see me and to deal with me. Chasing after it was, in fact, an illusion.

Money is the magnet of evil, as sure to bring pain as anything there is. The faces of evil will show their face to you, openly, and you DO NOT want to see this ugly part of humanity. You and any other will sacrifice your soul and your integrity by entering into that playground. No man can play there without "worldly' advisers, legal sharks, to "protect" you. It's a fact. I'm pretty sure that Joel Olsteen operates there too, as does every supposed "man or woman" of God (wink wink) who has entered into financial prosperity. ALL of the players with money and power and authority know these things. But they will never speak of these things, publicly. Glen Beck or any other given public talking head is NOT going to tell you 'the real truth' about where they sit, and what they have do to continue to 'sit there.' It's just an ugly ugly place. So they do not speak of it. IF they did, you would be appalled. So, rather than that, they just continue to play. And they cover up the ugly, and seldom, if ever, speak of it. But there is not a one of them who doesn't know it.

I KNOW they do
.
They have SCORES of attorney's and financial advisers to "protect" them and their wealth. To counsel them on every move they make. To fight off evil "believers," and an entire WORLD full of wicked greedy people, and from other big money whales, and the government and the IRS, etc etc. You do NOT want to go to this place. These people are in fact CURSED by God.

But they are also "deeply deeply addicted" to the things they have. They have scores of idols of their prosperity, set all around them. Mansions, artworks, the most expensive toys you can imagine. Servants, everywhere, all attending to their every need and whim. Snap your finger, it is there. Whatever you want. You want to fly to another country, play the best golf courses. Stay in another elite mansion. And let's have a couple of thousand dollar bottle of wine with a several hundred dollar dinner of the finest food. Let's GO! Hop in my private jet! We're off! zoom zoom zoom. This "activity" assuages their dark soul, and thanks them for their services rendered.

It is the playground of evil wicked greedy idolatrous people. The most wicked there are. The players therein will smile at you, shake your hand vigorously, tell you smooth words, all the while, the greed and idolatry seeping through every pore. Every word that comes from their mouths is a lie. And, so, to counter this, you will live your entire life by the written word, YOUR written word and you will FORCE others who want to play with you, to bow before YOUR written word, and you will pay to have YOUR words written, and you will pay to have it enforced, and you will have to destroy the financial lives of your adversaries, when they violate YOUR written word. You will have "no choice." I know this. I've done this. And if you do not, they will destroy you.

So, in the end, you will find out that all these people operate in another world, behind the scenes. And, if you have enough money, you are welcome to play there, if you can afford to. And yes, they will kiss your "---" without end. You will find out that even YOUR written word does not mean much, because the only thing that matters in that other world is WHO HAS MORE MONEY, and the ones that have the MOST, always win. The further UP you climb in 'their world' you will then find who the "real" players ARE, who have not only a LOT of money, but also the power. The power to write laws that favor only them. Then you find out what power is too. The power they have to make your written words comply to their written words and their rules. These are the people that sit on the top of the piles, in our government and at the top of large corporations, even EVERY large sectarian church. You think it to be some 'accident' that most of the players in the 'older christian sects' are in fact filled with ATTORNEY's and legal adviser's? You will even find some of these power players have the power of DEATH at their hands. And, if you want to play with them, you might even make MORE money and have even more power. And you will get even MORE power. More than you can even imagine. And you will learn what it is to really be able to manipulate the masses, for your financial gains, so you can have ever more idols of your financial blessings.

I might even observe that it was God who not only said no, but forced no upon me, by up close and personal exposure to these matters of fact. I do not want that kind of life OR their power, which could be "my" power. I can not live or find life in any of that, because there is no life there to be had. There are only lies and false very HEADY power and endless manipulations and idolatry. None of these people will EVER tell you these things. It just goes with their territory, and if you are not familiar with these matters, what good is it to tell you? That is the taste of their world you do not want anyway, because it would make you sick inside. That power taste. It is the worst addiction there is. Where hundreds of people, maybe even tens of thousands, maybe even millions or more, and their financial lives, even what THESE people, these "followers" are led to believe, are linked to every move you make and every thing you choose to say and do.

And illusions and idols, by the score. More idols than I am interested in bowing to. Every institution you see, yes, even church institutions, have these kinds of people at the top. All of them, down to the last one, play in a very different world. And they pay a dear dear price for their authority and power, to have it and to hold it. They are well paid to do so. And very "polished" on the outside. Seemingly shiny. But every so often one falls from their perch, and we can see them as they really are, just for a reminder.

None of what they do or what they have to say interests me one iota, nor do they speak, truthfully, to any of you, about these things, these facts. And you should not expect them to.

Do they speak the truthful matters of the Gospel? Uh, no. They are in fact as far away from God in Christ as can be gotten.

But, if you look closely, you will see it for yourself. A blind man can see they are surrounded by idols of prosperity.

And you may also see, that they might even be your idol.

Just because any person picks up the Word of God, and tells you want you want to hear, does NOT mean they are telling you the truth.
 
I've sat under the best of the 'name it and claim it' crowd. Had their blessings heaped upon me, particularly so when I had my checkbook in hand. Then "they" wanted me to sit up front, in the purple covered chairs, as an elder. They wanted to "share" their ways with me. That is when conviction came:

Matthew 23:
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

Jesus, by His Word above, asked me "if" I really wanted to be "that man." I said, Nope. I'll pass on the chief seat with the purple covering. And THANK YOU Lord, for giving me that reminder.


Yes, I have tasted, close enough, to the "supposed" God's Prosperity, and found it to be a curse to the soul. It caused thieves and liars by the score, by the boatload, to come to my door, and to bow before me in false honor. They wanted, these various thieves and liars, to carry me up, and to put me on even higher pedestals. To hear what I hear, to do what I did, in order that they too could have what I had (or have.) I hate the authority that money and power brought to me, because it was false. And how it caused others to see me and to deal with me. Chasing after it was, in fact, an illusion.

Money is the magnet of evil, as sure to bring pain as anything there is. The faces of evil will show their face to you, openly, and you DO NOT want to see this ugly part of humanity. You and any other will sacrifice your soul and your integrity by entering into that playground. No man can play there without "worldly' advisers, legal sharks, to "protect" you. It's a fact. I'm pretty sure that Joel Olsteen operates there too, as does every supposed "man or woman" of God (wink wink) who has entered into financial prosperity. ALL of the players with money and power and authority know these things. But they will never speak of these things, publicly. Glen Beck or any other given public talking head is NOT going to tell you 'the real truth' about where they sit, and what they have do to continue to 'sit there.' It's just an ugly ugly place. So they do not speak of it. IF they did, you would be appalled. So, rather than that, they just continue to play. And they cover up the ugly, and seldom, if ever, speak of it. But there is not a one of them who doesn't know it.

I KNOW they do
.
They have SCORES of attorney's and financial advisers to "protect" them and their wealth. To counsel them on every move they make. To fight off evil "believers," and an entire WORLD full of wicked greedy people, and from other big money whales, and the government and the IRS, etc etc. You do NOT want to go to this place. These people are in fact CURSED by God.

But they are also "deeply deeply addicted" to the things they have. They have scores of idols of their prosperity, set all around them. Mansions, artworks, the most expensive toys you can imagine. Servants, everywhere, all attending to their every need and whim. Snap your finger, it is there. Whatever you want. You want to fly to another country, play the best golf courses. Stay in another elite mansion. And let's have a couple of thousand dollar bottle of wine with a several hundred dollar dinner of the finest food. Let's GO! Hop in my private jet! We're off! zoom zoom zoom. This "activity" assuages their dark soul, and thanks them for their services rendered.

It is the playground of evil wicked greedy idolatrous people. The most wicked there are. The players therein will smile at you, shake your hand vigorously, tell you smooth words, all the while, the greed and idolatry seeping through every pore. Every word that comes from their mouths is a lie. And, so, to counter this, you will live your entire life by the written word, YOUR written word and you will FORCE others who want to play with you, to bow before YOUR written word, and you will pay to have YOUR words written, and you will pay to have it enforced, and you will have to destroy the financial lives of your adversaries, when they violate YOUR written word. You will have "no choice." I know this. I've done this. And if you do not, they will destroy you.

So, in the end, you will find out that all these people operate in another world, behind the scenes. And, if you have enough money, you are welcome to play there, if you can afford to. And yes, they will kiss your "---" without end. You will find out that even YOUR written word does not mean much, because the only thing that matters in that other world is WHO HAS MORE MONEY, and the ones that have the MOST, always win. The further UP you climb in 'their world' you will then find who the "real" players ARE, who have not only a LOT of money, but also the power. The power to write laws that favor only them. Then you find out what power is too. The power they have to make your written words comply to their written words and their rules. These are the people that sit on the top of the piles, in our government and at the top of large corporations, even EVERY large sectarian church. You think it to be some 'accident' that most of the players in the 'older christian sects' are in fact filled with ATTORNEY's and legal adviser's? You will even find some of these power players have the power of DEATH at their hands. And, if you want to play with them, you might even make MORE money and have even more power. And you will get even MORE power. More than you can even imagine. And you will learn what it is to really be able to manipulate the masses, for your financial gains, so you can have ever more idols of your financial blessings.

I might even observe that it was God who not only said no, but forced no upon me, by up close and personal exposure to these matters of fact. I do not want that kind of life OR their power, which could be "my" power. I can not live or find life in any of that, because there is no life there to be had. There are only lies and false very HEADY power and endless manipulations and idolatry. None of these people will EVER tell you these things. It just goes with their territory, and if you are not familiar with these matters, what good is it to tell you? That is the taste of their world you do not want anyway, because it would make you sick inside. That power taste. It is the worst addiction there is. Where hundreds of people, maybe even tens of thousands, maybe even millions or more, and their financial lives, even what THESE people, these "followers" are led to believe, are linked to every move you make and every thing you choose to say and do.

And illusions and idols, by the score. More idols than I am interested in bowing to. Every institution you see, yes, even church institutions, have these kinds of people at the top. All of them, down to the last one, play in a very different world. And they pay a dear dear price for their authority and power, to have it and to hold it. They are well paid to do so. And very "polished" on the outside. Seemingly shiny. But every so often one falls from their perch, and we can see them as they really are, just for a reminder.

None of what they do or what they have to say interests me one iota, nor do they speak, truthfully, to any of you, about these things, these facts. And you should not expect them to.

Do they speak the truthful matters of the Gospel? Uh, no. They are in fact as far away from God in Christ as can be gotten.

But, if you look closely, you will see it for yourself. A blind man can see they are surrounded by idols of prosperity.

And you may also see, that they might even be your idol.

Just because any person picks up the Word of God, and tells you want you want to hear, does NOT mean they are telling you the truth.
So, basically, since this perverse world of twisted scripture exists, all the passages that speak of God's blessing for his people are lies. Is that what you're saying?
 
So then who's lying, God or Paul?
So, who's got the money in their pocket? Does that prove anything? An unbeliever with a pocket full of money is now proof of God in Christ's blessings? If this is true, then the unbelievers are blessed of God much more than believers. Or maybe you want to count it up, see who has more?

The whole notion is rather lame.

Maybe you think God left this stuff buried someplace on earth, you know, kinda like a pirate?

Isaiah 45:3
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
 
So, who's got the money in their pocket? Does that prove anything? An unbeliever with a pocket full of money is now proof of God in Christ's blessings? If this is true, then the unbelievers are blessed of God much more than believers. Or maybe you want to count it up, see who has more?

The whole notion is rather lame.

Maybe you think God left this stuff buried someplace on earth, you know, kinda like a pirate?

Isaiah 45:3
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
"6 he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully." (2 Corinthians 9:6 NASB)
So who is lying, God or Paul?

Just because some read this verse with greedy, covetous desire, does that make it not true?
 
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