thesaintman
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study tribulation before or after rapture
- Thread starter thesaintman
- Start date
atpollard
Member
Matthew 23:34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Mark 13:13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Luke 12:4 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.
Luke 21:17 Everyone will hate you because of me.
John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews.
2 Corinthians 6:3-10
3 We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4 Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5 in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6 in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7 in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8 through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9 known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10 sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.
Revelation 6:9-11
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
2017
After seven Christians were martyred during a three-week period in Egypt’s North Sinai Peninsula, nearly 300 families (1100 people) fled the region.
Wa’el Yousef – martyred Jan. 30
Wa’el, 35, was the owner of a supermarket on a crowded street in Arish. On the day he was killed, Wa’el was at his market with his pregnant wife and one of their two sons. Suddenly, four masked, armed young men attacked his shop. The militants dragged Wa’el’s wife out of the shop by her hair and then shot Wa’el in the abdomen, shoulders and chest. Weeks after his death, Wa’el’s wife gave birth to their baby girl.
Adel Shawky – martyred Feb. 11
Adel, 57, lived in the El Samran area in Arish. He was shot in the head.
Dr. Bahgat Welliam – martyred Feb. 12
Dr. Bahget, 58, owned a veterinary clinic in Arish. He was in his pharmacy when masked young men entered and pulled him out to the street in front of the pharmacy and shot him in the head. Dr. Bahgat has a son, Marcos, 16, and a daughter, Demiana, 14.
Gamal Tawfik Gergis – martyred Feb. 16
Gamal, 45, was a teacher who also had a small business selling shoes and socks. Gamal, who has six children, was with his wife when he was killed in the market where he ran his business. Two young men met the couple as they walked through the market. After they asked Gamal what his name was and he confirmed his identity, they shot him in the head. The militants took the money out of Gamal’s pocket and warned bystanders in the market not to come closer to Gamal or to try help or save him.
Gamal and his wife have six children: Mary, 23; Youssef, 22; Sara, 17; Mena, 16; Ibrahim, 12; and Mariam, 6.
Saad Hakim Hanna and Medhat Saad Hakim – martyred Feb. 21
Saad, 65, and his son, Medhat, 45, were killed on the same day. Saad was shot several times in the head. His body was found in the streets of Arish. Medhat was abducted and burned alive.
Kamel Raoof Kamel – martyred Feb. 24
Kamel, 40, was a plumber. Armed men shot him in front of his wife and their five children. They also burned his house. Kamel’s wife and children escaped as the attackers chased Kamel onto the roof of his house, where he attempted to hide.
March 2017
VOM recently helped secure the release of “Palani,” a Christian man in Laos – one of seven men imprisoned for following Jesus. The other six men are still continuing their three-and-a-half year sentences.
Define "tribulation".
Mark 13:13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Luke 12:4 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.
Luke 21:17 Everyone will hate you because of me.
John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews.
2 Corinthians 6:3-10
3 We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4 Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5 in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6 in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7 in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8 through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9 known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10 sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.
Revelation 6:9-11
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
2017
After seven Christians were martyred during a three-week period in Egypt’s North Sinai Peninsula, nearly 300 families (1100 people) fled the region.
Wa’el Yousef – martyred Jan. 30
Wa’el, 35, was the owner of a supermarket on a crowded street in Arish. On the day he was killed, Wa’el was at his market with his pregnant wife and one of their two sons. Suddenly, four masked, armed young men attacked his shop. The militants dragged Wa’el’s wife out of the shop by her hair and then shot Wa’el in the abdomen, shoulders and chest. Weeks after his death, Wa’el’s wife gave birth to their baby girl.
Adel Shawky – martyred Feb. 11
Adel, 57, lived in the El Samran area in Arish. He was shot in the head.
Dr. Bahgat Welliam – martyred Feb. 12
Dr. Bahget, 58, owned a veterinary clinic in Arish. He was in his pharmacy when masked young men entered and pulled him out to the street in front of the pharmacy and shot him in the head. Dr. Bahgat has a son, Marcos, 16, and a daughter, Demiana, 14.
Gamal Tawfik Gergis – martyred Feb. 16
Gamal, 45, was a teacher who also had a small business selling shoes and socks. Gamal, who has six children, was with his wife when he was killed in the market where he ran his business. Two young men met the couple as they walked through the market. After they asked Gamal what his name was and he confirmed his identity, they shot him in the head. The militants took the money out of Gamal’s pocket and warned bystanders in the market not to come closer to Gamal or to try help or save him.
Gamal and his wife have six children: Mary, 23; Youssef, 22; Sara, 17; Mena, 16; Ibrahim, 12; and Mariam, 6.
Saad Hakim Hanna and Medhat Saad Hakim – martyred Feb. 21
Saad, 65, and his son, Medhat, 45, were killed on the same day. Saad was shot several times in the head. His body was found in the streets of Arish. Medhat was abducted and burned alive.
Kamel Raoof Kamel – martyred Feb. 24
Kamel, 40, was a plumber. Armed men shot him in front of his wife and their five children. They also burned his house. Kamel’s wife and children escaped as the attackers chased Kamel onto the roof of his house, where he attempted to hide.
March 2017
VOM recently helped secure the release of “Palani,” a Christian man in Laos – one of seven men imprisoned for following Jesus. The other six men are still continuing their three-and-a-half year sentences.
“Me being free today after two months in prison for my faith in Christ is a miracle,” Palani said. “I want to thank all the brothers and sisters who help secure my release. Without your support financially and by prayers, I would not be free today.”
Palani was arrested only days after accepting Christ. The former “village drunk” finally humbled himself during a visit to see his brother, a pastor in another village.
“At first, I was skeptical and really did not care about believing in a ‘foreign religion’, but when he told me that he can pray for me, that I would not crave alcohol, I allowed him to pray for me,” Palani said. “During the prayer, something happened that I cannot describe. My whole body started to shake. Then, the next day, he told me that Christ will use me and that I can also go and heal the sick. I stayed about a week to learn more about Christ.”
When Palani returned to his village, he met with a local pastor. As he asked about Jesus and how to serve in the church, the pastor asked Palani if he could get Bibles for the congregation from his brother.
“My brother then brought boxes of Bibles for the church,” he said. “We started to hand out Bibles and pray for the sick in the village. I was astonished to see many people were healed after I prayed for them. Remember, this is all new to me, so I was excited. I went around praying for people who were sick and also gave out Bibles.”
Then, days later, a village leader told Palani he couldn’t talk about God or distribute Bibles anymore. He labeled Palani a fraud and a drunkard who shouldn’t be persuading people to follow a foreign religion.
“They say this religion is for the other tribes like the Hmong, and that we are Lao and have no room to believe in such religion,” Palani said. “Three days later, police came to my house and arrested me for spreading the Christian religion.”
Palani was arrested only days after accepting Christ. The former “village drunk” finally humbled himself during a visit to see his brother, a pastor in another village.
“At first, I was skeptical and really did not care about believing in a ‘foreign religion’, but when he told me that he can pray for me, that I would not crave alcohol, I allowed him to pray for me,” Palani said. “During the prayer, something happened that I cannot describe. My whole body started to shake. Then, the next day, he told me that Christ will use me and that I can also go and heal the sick. I stayed about a week to learn more about Christ.”
When Palani returned to his village, he met with a local pastor. As he asked about Jesus and how to serve in the church, the pastor asked Palani if he could get Bibles for the congregation from his brother.
“My brother then brought boxes of Bibles for the church,” he said. “We started to hand out Bibles and pray for the sick in the village. I was astonished to see many people were healed after I prayed for them. Remember, this is all new to me, so I was excited. I went around praying for people who were sick and also gave out Bibles.”
Then, days later, a village leader told Palani he couldn’t talk about God or distribute Bibles anymore. He labeled Palani a fraud and a drunkard who shouldn’t be persuading people to follow a foreign religion.
“They say this religion is for the other tribes like the Hmong, and that we are Lao and have no room to believe in such religion,” Palani said. “Three days later, police came to my house and arrested me for spreading the Christian religion.”
Define "tribulation".
Chopper
Member
O my friend. The last 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation is called Jacobs trouble. We haven't seen anything like it ever! What you have posted is terrible for sure, I believe that those last years of the tribulation will be far worse than that. Check it out in Revelation.
civilwarbuff
Member
Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
That's probably a pretty good definition.......
atpollard
Member
I have been guilty of being too subtle.
The question of "tribulation before or after rapture" is an irrelevant one. Christ has promised that in this life, trouble will be the cost of following Him. (John 16:33) The people of Christ have always suffered, suffer today, shall continue to suffer. (Acts 11:19) If we enjoy a season of respite from suffering, that is an unusual thing for which we should thank God. Yes there will be a greater trouble in the future ... Jesus HAS promised it will be so. (Mark 13:20)
However, whether he carries us away before the trouble (Matthew 24:40) or sustains us through it (Psalm 69:15) is not what is important. The important point is the faith and confidence that Jesus will snatch us out of trouble or sustain us through it. (Romans 8:31-39) This information applies equally well to the light and momentary troubles of life (2 Corinthians 4:17) as well as the great Tribulation to come.
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atpollard
Member
A popular opinion, however, since this is the Bible Study section ... do you have scripture to prove it?
th1b.taylor
Member
Here is a good link to the evidence.
http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/rapture_proofs.html
http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/rapture_proofs.html
ezrider
Member
Where in the scriptures are the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation called Jacob's trouble?
There is only one reference to Jacob's trouble in the scripture.
Jeremiah 30:4-7
And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the Lord;
We have heard a voice of trembling,
of fear, and not of peace.
Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child?
wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail,
and all faces are turned into paleness?
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it:
it is even the time of Jacob's trouble;
but he shall be saved out of it.
The time of Jacob's trouble was when Herod had the children under 2 slaughtered, but he shall be saved out of it. Who was save out of it? Jesus was saved out of it, as he was taken into Egypt.
Jeremiah 31:15
Thus saith the Lord;
A voice was heard in Ramah,
lamentation, and bitter weeping;
Rachel weeping for her children
refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
Matthew 2:17-18
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
iLOVE
Member
Dispensations:
1. Age of Innocence = 40 Days Adam and Eve (lasted 40 days)?
2. Age of Conscience = 1600 Years (lasted up to the time of Noah)
3. Age of Government = 400 Years (from Noah to Abraham)
4. Age of Promise = 400 Years ( took man closer to God)
5. Age of Law = 1500 Years (from Moses to Christ)
6. Age of Grace = 2000 Years (living in now)
7. Age of Righteousness = (The Kingdom Age)
8. Perfect Age = Forever = (will last forever and forever)
1. Age of Innocence = 40 Days Adam and Eve (lasted 40 days)?
2. Age of Conscience = 1600 Years (lasted up to the time of Noah)
3. Age of Government = 400 Years (from Noah to Abraham)
4. Age of Promise = 400 Years ( took man closer to God)
5. Age of Law = 1500 Years (from Moses to Christ)
6. Age of Grace = 2000 Years (living in now)
7. Age of Righteousness = (The Kingdom Age)
8. Perfect Age = Forever = (will last forever and forever)
th1b.taylor
Member
here is a very good article with scripture reference linked.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacobs-trouble.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacobs-trouble.html
Butch5
Member
The rapture or the gathering will take place after the Great Tribulation.
civilwarbuff
Member
th1b.taylor
Member
not fit for Bible Study.. because some one sees things a bit different is no reason to be rude. Edited reba
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Nathan
Member
Enjoy? That caught my eye. Why do you say that?
Butch5
Member
I'm wrong even though it's stated plainly in the Scriptures and the pre-trib isn't.
dirtfarmer
Member
dirtfarmer here
Romans 5:9, " Much more then, being justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
1 Thessalonians 1:10, " and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which diliverd us from the wrath to come."
From these scriptures I believe that the rapture happens before the tribulation period.
Romans 5:9, " Much more then, being justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
1 Thessalonians 1:10, " and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which diliverd us from the wrath to come."
From these scriptures I believe that the rapture happens before the tribulation period.
Butch5
Member
There's nothing here that says anything about the rapture.
civilwarbuff
Member
It is really funny how people can read the same scripture and come to completely opposite viewpoints.......another thread was discussing errors in reasoning. Wonder if that applies here.....
Dont go there
this thread will not be hijacked