Bible Study tribulation before or after rapture

[atpollard]

The rapture or the gathering will take place after the Great Tribulation.

Since this is the Bible Study section ... do you have scripture to support this opinion?

 

[Butch5]

Since this is the Bible Study section ... do you have scripture to support this opinion?

Yeah, Jesus said after the tribulation of that day He would send His angles to gather His elect.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.(Matt. 24:21-31 KJV)

 

[reba]

The passage does not say 'the great tribulation "

 

[Butch5]

The passage does not say 'the great tribulation "

"The Great Tribulation" is Christian speak. This passage talks about a period of tribulation like no other. There has never been one like it and will never be another after it. That means that this will be the greatest tribulation that will be seen.

 

[reba]

Christian speak? does not make it Scripture..
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

 

[th1b.taylor]

IF you choose to be rude dont post in the Bible Study forum edited reba

 

[th1b.taylor]

It is really funny how people can read the same scripture and come to completely opposite viewpoints.......another thread was discussing errors in reasoning. Wonder if that applies here.....

People, actually, refuse the idea that the Bible is one book penned by about 40 different people and thus is one context. And I've learned not to suggest they read through 2 or 3 times, one must love the Word of God for that.

 

[Butch5]

Christian speak? does not make it Scripture..
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

I agree, that's why I said it's Christian speak. Jesus said that this time of tribulation would worse than anything that had ever been or would be. It seems to me that that tribulation will be worse that this passage you posted from Genesis.

 

[reba]

What my understanding would be is there will be less then 8 people survive the tribulation

 

[Butch5]

What my understanding would be is there will be less then 8 people survive the tribulation

I could see how that can be extrapolated from the text. However, I believe there are other passages that would indicate that the number will be higher than 8

 

[reba]

which is logical? dont answer that was just for fun...

 

[Butch5]

which is logical? dont answer that was just for fun...

Actually, your conclusion is an inference and it is a logical one. It's logic given the information from that passage in Genesis that you quoted. However, what if Jesus gave additional information and said 2 million will survive the tribulation, would that change your conclusion?

 

[reba]

I am not convinced the tribulation Jesus was speaking of is still future...

 

[Nathan]

I'll throw something out there. I do not think the flood was tribulation. It was *edit - destruction. If you look up "tribulation" you find it means a 'great pressure'.

I suppose those under all that water would have had great pressure.......it is exactly .433 PSI per foot of water..... There are some mountains that are very tall, so even at 14,000 feet above sea level, that would be roughly 7,000 PSI around the shores of the Dead Sea. Ouch!

 

[Nathan]

Think about this. When a potter is making a pot, what must he do to the clay first? He must compress it to get all the air out, to remove the lumps and such.

Before the pot is fit to use, what does he do? He bakes it in a hot oven.

I'm not sure where the idea of tribulation became all about the wrath of God and not also about the testing of the faith of believers.

 

[reba]

it came from dispensationalism

 

[Nathan]

it came from dispensationalism

That makes sense. Not that it really makes sense, but makes sense that's where it comes from.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Rapture is first, then the Tribulation.

After the tribulation, at the end of the age, when the Lord returns, the dead in Christ will rise first and then those believers who are still alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
That event will be followed by the judgment of mankind and then the fulfillment of the kingdom of heaven established on earth.
That is what the early Church taught.
The teaching about the "rapture" - tribulation - literal millennial reign - etc. wasn't invented until the 1830's.
It's very popular in English speaking countries but it's a modern innovation.
And it is a distraction from what the Lord told His disciples (and all believers) that we shouldn't be digging into when and where and who and how but we need to be about our Father's business so that when Christ returns He will find faithfulness on the earth, not a lot of people arguing about whether the so-called "rapture" is pre, mid or post-trib.



iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

After the tribulation, at the end of the age, when the Lord returns, the dead in Christ will rise first and then those believers who are still alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
That event will be followed by the judgment of mankind and then the fulfillment of the kingdom of heaven established on earth.
That is what the early Church taught.
The teaching about the "rapture" - tribulation - literal millennial reign - etc. wasn't invented until the 1830's.
It's very popular in English speaking countries but it's a modern innovation.
And it is a distraction from what the Lord told His disciples (and all believers) that we shouldn't be digging into when and where and who and how but we need to be about our Father's business so that when Christ returns He will find faithfulness on the earth, not a lot of people arguing about whether the so-called "rapture" is pre, mid or post-trib.



iakov the fool

If its a distraction, then why did Paul feel like it was a needed thing to teach to such young believers as the Thessalonians? Not only once, but when some were troubling them about the coming of Christ, he felt the need to write to them again about it.

I don't see why it cannot be something discussed in sincerity and known. I'm not talking about trying to figure out the date when Christ will return, but to know the events surrounding it, the resurrection, and our gathering together with Him - I believe it is a good topic to discuss.

 

[Jim Parker]

If its a distraction, then why did Paul feel like it was a needed thing to teach to such young believers as the Thessalonians?

Paul didn't teach the "rapture" innovations that didn't get invented until the 1830's.

Not only once, but when some were troubling them about the coming of Christ, he felt the need to write to them again about it.

Some people said that the resurrection had already happened.
Paul said it wouldn't happen until Jesus returned.

I don't see why it cannot be something discussed in sincerity and known.

I didn't say it could not be.
It seems to me a waste to time to study something that Jesus never taught while neglecting things that Jesus spent a lot of time emphasizing.

I'm not talking about trying to figure out the date when Christ will return, but to know the events surrounding it, the resurrection, and our gathering together with Him - I believe it is a good topic to discuss.

It may well be but, not while neglecting Jesus' teaching that we are to be doing those good works which men will see as our light shining and then will glorify our Father in heaven.

The world is going to hell in a hand basket and people are more interested in hearing all the latest winds of doctrine about when and where and who and how instead of focusing on being found being a faithful servant doing the works which the master gave us to do. He are ever being taught but rarely doing the things that Jesus said were important. Feed the hungry, Clother the naked; shelter the homeless, visit the sick and the prisoner.

I don't hear much teaching on that. But doing those things was how the primitive Church turned the world upside down.

When the son of man returns, will He find faithfulness on the earth?

Or will we be too busy watching John Hagee telling us all about every little aspect of the rapture and which beast is which while people go hungry naked and homeless?

Have you ever heard this song?
Just let it sink in.

ASLEEP IN THE LIGHT by Keith Green
Do you see, do you see, all the people sinking down,
Don't you care, don't you care, are you gonna let them drown,
How can you be so numb, not to care if they come,
You close your eyes and pretend the job's done.

Oh Bless me Lord, bless me Lord, you know it's all I ever hear,
No one aches, no one hurts, no one even sheds one tear,
But He cries, He weeps, He bleeds, and He cares for your needs,
And you just lay back and keep soaking it in, oh, can't you see it's such sin?

Cause He brings people to your door,
And you turn them away, as you smile and say,
God bless you, be at peace, and all Heaven just weeps,
Cause Jesus came to your door, you've left Him out on the streets.

Open up, open up, and give yourself away,
You've seen the need; you hear the cry, so how can you delay,
God's calling and you're the one, but like Jonah you run,
He's told you to speak, but you keep holding it in,
Oh, can't you see its such sin?

The world is sleeping in the dark,
That the church can't fight, cause it's asleep in the light,
How can you be so dead, when you've been so well fed,
Jesus rose from the grave, and you, you can't even get out of bed,
Oh, Jesus rose from the dead, come on; get out of your bed.

How can you be so numb, not to care if they come,
You close your eyes and pretend the job's done,
You close your eyes and pretend the job's done,
Don't close your eyes; don't pretend the job's done.

iakov the fool