Bible Study tribulation before or after rapture

[Chopper]

The passage does not say 'the great tribulation "

Reba is right. What man calls the great tribulation, Scripture calls it Jacob's Trouble.

 

[Chopper]

Hi folks. I'm thinking that Revelation is probably the most book in the Bible that has the most questions as to interpretation, and that's to Bad. I have purposely studied this great Book of the Bible, not only to receive the blessings promised here, but that I might teach our Lord's mind concerning the end times so that God's people will be ready when He comes. The following Scripture is proof text of the 1st gathering (rapture) of Jesus' true Believers....Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I fully believe in a gathering of the Elect Bride of Jesus Christ prior to the 7 year tribulation period. My main Scripture for this posture is....Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I find the word patience interesting for the Church at Philadelphia....
hupomonē
From G5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy: - enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).
Total KJV occurrences: 32

Along with the Church at Philadelphia, the Elect Bride of Christ has been the same as this Church during this time period. Under the direction of Jesus Himself, these words...."I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation"....Jesus is speaking of the tribulation period.

To understand more fully, a quick mention of the Church of today will be of help, I think. Within the make up of most Gospel preaching Churches there are 3 basic groups of people. One is the group that does everything, they are the leaders, teachers, and workers. They are very serious about their walk in the Holy Spirit. Their lives at home and in public prove that they are the Elect Bride of Christ Jesus.

Second, there are those who basically warm the pews. They don't give of their resources as do the Elect, nor are they interested in working in the Church. They are saved but lack the drive to excel within the Church body or outside....Then there are the unsaved who are toying with the idea of getting saved but the right motivation just hasn't surfaced.

Now, the gathering (rapture) of the Elect Bride will happen before the tribulation starts according to....
2Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. The words "at hand" is a poor translation in the KJV. The proper wording according to the ESV is....2Thessalonians 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. (ESV)
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Before any trouble or tribulation comes, the Elect Bride has been very faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ and dedicated to the welfare of His Church on the earth. Because of their faithfulness and dedication to Jesus and His calling for their lives, they will escape the the 7 year tribulation. That is a part of the great rewards of being truly faithful to the Christ Who died for them, whenever all others didn't love Jesus with ALL THEIR HEART AND MIND.

Now we have the pew warmers. Their saved, but that's about it. The first half of the tribulation is designed by Jesus to test these pew warmers. They will face tremendous economic collapse. A days wage will be just enough to buy a loaf of bread. The mark of the beast, 666, will be a great trial for these folks. "there come a falling away first" says 2 Thessalonians 2:3.Some of these pew warmers were not truly saved and will leave the Faith. There will be a great apostasy during the first half of the tribulation period because these so called Christians buckle under the persecution that they'll face.

Since the Elect Bride....
Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"....

Will not loose their Salvation because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in them....
Ephesians 1:12 "so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." The Elect Bride of Christ was specially chosen before hand to be the Remnant of Almighty God to represent Him in all ages, and all geographical locations to be God's witness to His Nature of love and judgment.

There is that second group of Believers in Christ Jesus that comes to Him thru the "General Call of the Gospel" These people are given a choice to either believe in Jesus Christ or to reject Him. Some of them will be truly saved and receive the Holy Spirit and therefore have the guarantee, the same as the Elect of never loosing their Salvation. BUT, some of them will leave the faith because of the persecution of the first half of the tribulation.

At the half way point in the tribulation, antichrist will take his position in the temple and announce that he is god. From this point on, this is called "Jacobs Trouble". The death and devastation to man and the earth has never been this bad in all history. Because of the Gospel preaching of the 144,000, many will be saved of the Nation of Israel as well as gentile Nations. Don't get me wrong, many, many will reject the Gospel message and will remain lost from the Jesus that they've rejected all their lives.

I'd be happy to supply any verses and or theology that supports my convictions.

 

[Nathan]

Hi folks. I'm thinking that Revelation is probably the most book in the Bible that has the most questions as to interpretation, and that's to Bad. I have purposely studied this great Book of the Bible, not only to receive the blessings promised here, but that I might teach our Lord's mind concerning the end times so that God's people will be ready when He comes. The following Scripture is proof text of the 1st gathering (rapture) of Jesus' true Believers....Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I fully believe in a gathering of the Elect Bride of Jesus Christ prior to the 7 year tribulation period. My main Scripture for this posture is....Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I find the word patience interesting for the Church at Philadelphia....
hupomonē
From G5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy: - enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).
Total KJV occurrences: 32

Along with the Church at Philadelphia, the Elect Bride of Christ has been the same as this Church during this time period. Under the direction of Jesus Himself, these words...."I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation"....Jesus is speaking of the tribulation period.

To understand more fully, a quick mention of the Church of today will be of help, I think. Within the make up of most Gospel preaching Churches there are 3 basic groups of people. One is the group that does everything, they are the leaders, teachers, and workers. They are very serious about their walk in the Holy Spirit. Their lives at home and in public prove that they are the Elect Bride of Christ Jesus.

Second, there are those who basically warm the pews. They don't give of their resources as do the Elect, nor are they interested in working in the Church. They are saved but lack the drive to excel within the Church body or outside....Then there are the unsaved who are toying with the idea of getting saved but the right motivation just hasn't surfaced.

Now, the gathering (rapture) of the Elect Bride will happen before the tribulation starts according to....
2Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. The words "at hand" is a poor translation in the KJV. The proper wording according to the ESV is....2Thessalonians 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. (ESV)
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Before any trouble or tribulation comes, the Elect Bride has been very faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ and dedicated to the welfare of His Church on the earth. Because of their faithfulness and dedication to Jesus and His calling for their lives, they will escape the the 7 year tribulation. That is a part of the great rewards of being truly faithful to the Christ Who died for them, whenever all others didn't love Jesus with ALL THEIR HEART AND MIND.

Now we have the pew warmers. Their saved, but that's about it. The first half of the tribulation is designed by Jesus to test these pew warmers. They will face tremendous economic collapse. A days wage will be just enough to buy a loaf of bread. The mark of the beast, 666, will be a great trial for these folks. "there come a falling away first" says 2 Thessalonians 2:3.Some of these pew warmers were not truly saved and will leave the Faith. There will be a great apostasy during the first half of the tribulation period because these so called Christians buckle under the persecution that they'll face.

Since the Elect Bride....
Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"....

Will not loose their Salvation because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in them....
Ephesians 1:12 "so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." The Elect Bride of Christ was specially chosen before hand to be the Remnant of Almighty God to represent Him in all ages, and all geographical locations to be God's witness to His Nature of love and judgment.

There is that second group of Believers in Christ Jesus that comes to Him thru the "General Call of the Gospel" These people are given a choice to either believe in Jesus Christ or to reject Him. Some of them will be truly saved and receive the Holy Spirit and therefore have the guarantee, the same as the Elect of never loosing their Salvation. BUT, some of them will leave the faith because of the persecution of the first half of the tribulation.

At the half way point in the tribulation, antichrist will take his position in the temple and announce that he is god. From this point on, this is called "Jacobs Trouble". The death and devastation to man and the earth has never been this bad in all history. Because of the Gospel preaching of the 144,000, many will be saved of the Nation of Israel as well as gentile Nations. Don't get me wrong, many, many will reject the Gospel message and will remain lost from the Jesus that they've rejected all their lives.

I'd be happy to supply any verses and or theology that supports my convictions.

So I have a question for you. I ask it to people who hold the view you do, just to get an idea of their thoughts. Ive gotten some interesting responses before to say the least.

If you woke up one morning in the near future, and the antichrist was on the TV, knowing from all the passages that talk about him being the real deal - what would you think?

Would your faith be OK if a pre-tribulation rapture doesn't happen?

Although it was honest, and honesty is good, I had one person tell me one time that it would seriously effect his faith and what he had believed. Which is normal really. If you sit under teaching of this nature, and then were to find out that teaching was false, it would make you question the rest of what you were taught.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So I have a question for you. I ask it to people who hold the view you do, just to get an idea of their thoughts. Ive gotten some interesting responses before to say the least.

If you woke up one morning in the near future, and the antichrist was on the TV, knowing from all the passages that talk about him being the real deal - what would you think?

Would your faith be OK if a pre-tribulation rapture doesn't happen?

Although it was honest, and honesty is good, I had one person tell me one time that it would seriously effect his faith and what he had believed. Which is normal really. If you sit under teaching of this nature, and then were to find out that teaching was false, it would make you question the rest of what you were taught.

Though this is not directed at me still I will answer.
No. Belief in when the rapture occurs is not salvific. No doubt there are many things that Christians believe that may or may not happen that will not affect their salvation......
Having said that, when the pre-trib rapture happens the rest of you are coming with us whether you want to or not......

 

[Nathan]

Though this is not directed at me still I will answer.
No. Belief in when the rapture occurs is not salvific. No doubt there are many things that Christians believe that may or may not happen that will not affect their salvation......
Having said that, when the pre-trib rapture happens the rest of you are coming with us whether you want to or not......

Thanks for answering. I am alway curious to hear from anyone.

Just to be clear, I do not think it's a salvific issue. Just curious if it will effect a persons belief.

 

[Chopper]

So I have a question for you. I ask it to people who hold the view you do, just to get an idea of their thoughts. Ive gotten some interesting responses before to say the least.

If you woke up one morning in the near future, and the antichrist was on the TV, knowing from all the passages that talk about him being the real deal - what would you think?

Would your faith be OK if a pre-tribulation rapture doesn't happen?

Although it was honest, and honesty is good, I had one person tell me one time that it would seriously effect his faith and what he had believed. Which is normal really. If you sit under teaching of this nature, and then were to find out that teaching was false, it would make you question the rest of what you were taught.

Hi there my favored Brother in Jesus. That's a great question you have asked. It's very interesting that if the Rapture didn't happen, I'm sure that many Christians would be devastated. The results that follows would certainly be interesting. Probably some who are weak in the faith would pass thru many emotions and possibly walk away from their belief system. Other's would hang in there hoping for a mid trib Rapture.

For me? I have already conferred with Jesus thru His Spirit that I would be willing to stay on the earth as a witness, and praise the Lord for my friends & relatives going up in the Rapture. Because I know so much of the events of the whole tribulation period, I could preach the Gospel and bring comfort to the ones who missed the Rapture because of being asleep at the wheel, but now must endure persecution that they've never faced.

 

[Nathan]

Hi there my favored Brother in Jesus. That's a great question you have asked. It's very interesting that if the Rapture didn't happen, I'm sure that many Christians would be devastated. The results that follows would certainly be interesting. Probably some who are weak in the faith would pass thru many emotions and possibly walk away from their belief system. Other's would hang in there hoping for a mid trib Rapture.

For me? I have already conferred with Jesus thru His Spirit that I would be willing to stay on the earth as a witness, and praise the Lord for my friends & relatives going up in the Rapture. Because I know so much of the events of the whole tribulation period, I could preach the Gospel and bring comfort to the ones who missed the Rapture because of being asleep at the wheel, but now must endure persecution that they've never faced.

I honestly would have been surprised if you would have answered any other way Chopper. I am glad to know I was not mistaken.

I find it to be a great question to ask people. It does give you an idea of what(who) their faith is in.

 

[Chopper]

I honestly would have been surprised if you would have answered any other way Chopper. I am glad to know I was not mistaken.

I find it to be a great question to ask people. It does give you an idea of what(who) their faith is in.

Thank you my wonderful friend Nathan. I guess you already know that I'm a bond servant to my Master Jesus. I would do anything in this world that He wanted me to do. I am so glad for forgiven sins and that He has prepared a place with Him in Glory. To Jesus I surrender my life.

 

[Nathan]

Thank you my wonderful friend Nathan. I guess you already know that I'm a bond servant to my Master Jesus. I would do anything in this world that He wanted me to do. I am so glad for forgiven sins and that He has prepared a place with Him in Glory. To Jesus I surrender my life.

I believe it. And just the same as you would be fine with finding yourself in the midst of the tribulation, I too would be fine if I was taken up before it happened.

It just amazes me to hear of peoples thoughts about it, and saddens me to think that in reality they might only profess Christ because they want to be 'raptured' before any tribulation. So when asked how it would effect their faith, they put so much weight on it - instead of Christ who forgives them - that it makes sense to them that it would effect their faith.

 

[Chopper]

I believe it. And just the same as you would be fine with finding yourself in the midst of the tribulation, I too would be fine if I was taken up before it happened.

It just amazes me to hear of peoples thoughts about it, and saddens me to think that in reality they might only profess Christ because they want to be 'raptured' before any tribulation. So when asked how it would effect their faith, they put so much weight on it - instead of Christ who forgives them - that it makes sense to them that it would effect their faith.

That is very true. There are so many Christians that hate being sick or God forbid have to go thru any trials of their faith. When I was active as a full time Pastor, the folk who wanted me to pray for them for a simple head cold, amazed me. I had to teach each of them that healing is not for a head cold but for much more serious trials.

Some of my fellow Theologians believe in a mid trib Rapture. They point to the early Churches of Christ Jesus and believe that if they were persecuted for their faith, why should we escape the persecution of the first half of the Trib. They do have a point. If our local churches were ever persecuted like in the first Century, all but a very few would say goodby to Jesus.

 

[Nathan]

That is very true. There are so many Christians that hate being sick or God forbid have to go thru any trials of their faith. When I was active as a full time Pastor, the folk who wanted me to pray for them for a simple head cold, amazed me. I had to teach each of them that healing is not for a head cold but for much more serious trials.

Some of my fellow Theologians believe in a mid trib Rapture. They point to the early Churches of Christ Jesus and believe that if they were persecuted for their faith, why should we escape the persecution of the first half of the Trib. They do have a point. If our local churches were ever persecuted like in the first Century, all but a very few would say goodby to Jesus.

I honestly do not know when it will be. I just do not see how it will be before the revealing of the man of sin. I hope its immediately after that - I just cannot find that it is anytime before that according to all the passages I read. I always listen intensely to those who preach about pre-trib in trying to get an idea of how they believe it - but never walk away being able to agree with them.

I have often heard that argument before, how we should not feel like we are any better than the early church and "escape" the tribulation. I don't hold to that argument. I think that if Christ wants to pay someone the same wages at 11:30 at night, and at 7:00 in the morning, then that's His prerogative. I aint gonna be mad.

 

[Jim Parker]

can you say me it

We have tribulation right now. Jesus said we would have tribulation. (Jhn 16:33)
Don't worry about when the so-called "Great Tribulation" happens.
Make sure you are found being faithful when He returns. THAT should be your concern.

Mat 24:45-46 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.


iakov the fool