Trinitry Truth

[Free]

what do you mean "the godhead is recognized" ?

That isn’t quite what he said, although he’ll have to clear up if that is what he was referring to.

 

[eddif]

i understand the eastern part.
what do you mean by the eastern religions "recognize" the godhead?
thank you E most are not glad to see my post haha

They recognize the: head god
Head - chief / strongest
god - false gods

I will try and find the way you think and speak that mental language. We as members of the body of Christ, just think differently. No liver thinks like a kidney.

eddif

 

[eddif]

What does that have to do with Rom. 1:20?

Genesis :
(Let us make man in our image)

Romans:
Godhead = us (KJV)
He = us (HCSB)
Has been made = us (NIV) (NASB) (NSV)

There was a creater behind creation.

Colossians 1:15 KJV
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they bethrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Visible and invisible
Concrete and abstract
Physical Spiritual

Romans 1:20 says we can look at physical creation to see his invisible nature.

Which trinity created. Holy
Spirit breathed the breath (for a living soul) at creation and for a new birth (born again).

eddif

 

[jaybird]

They recognize the: head god
Head - chief / strongest
god - false gods

I will try and find the way you think and speak that mental language. We as members of the body of Christ, just think differently. No liver thinks like a kidney.

eddif

in many of the Hindu faiths they have a three being godhead. Brahma is at the top, the creator, above the others of the godhead.
is this what you are saying?

 

[eddif]

in many of the Hindu faiths they have a three being godhead. Brahma is at the top, the creator, above the others of the godhead.
is this what you are saying?

Roughly yes.

Christians believe all our true three are involved. I do not study other religions.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Divine nature = Godhead. End of long day.
Blew that.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Sorry about the mistake.

You will have trouble listening now
But
Revelation 21:23 KJV
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

We have the glory and the light. The outward and the inward.

At creation: two light sources from our viewpoint. One sun and one moon.

The sun is looked at as capable of millions of years of life (eternal to us).

The moon is a reflector of the Suns energy.

We got these at creation. Symbols of the invisible nature.

Inside us: Jesus is our enlightenment.
The desperately wicked and deceitful heart (darkness) has him now. Darkness has seen a great light.

Now how you assign glory and light - I really do not know.

What I do know is now the moon (Jesus has been given all authority to provide light in the New Jerusalem.

So.
Here i sit capable of error dealing
With all this. Now I feel like Peter after his blunders. He recovered and pressed on. I have an intercessor that allows me to press on (if I confess my sins).

Redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Ephesians 1:19 WEY
and what the transcendent greatness of His power in us believers as seen in the working of His infinite might
Ephesians 2:7 WEY
in order that, by His goodness to us in Christ Jesus, He might display in the Ages to come the transcendent riches of His grace.

eddif

 

[SytheF]

LOL

Well on the day of Pentecost he placed the law in our hearts and minds.
Hebrews 10:16 KJV
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Jeremiah 31:33 KJV
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Angels bear messages from God to man and back. They seem to go across nothing.

Nerves in us (as we were created) show the knowledge of how angels work. It is a network.

Daniel 10:12 KJV
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

This scripture is an angel block.
Today we talk about nerve blocks.

That help any?
eddif

Sure. Thank you for the trouble.

 

[Butch5]

I had to add those for your sake, for further explanation and clarification, because you refuse to understand and address what is clearly stated in Scripture. But I have added nothing to Scripture.

There's actually another way to understand that passage.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What's the big deal?
Just do the sign of the cross.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen.
See?
That means you believe, so simple.

 

[Free]

There's actually another way to understand that passage.

Which is...?

 

[Butch5]

Which is...?

I would submit that when Jesus said, 'unless you believe I am', He was implying that it was He who was in the burning bush who spoke to Moses. When Moses was sent to the Israelites he said, who should I say sent me. The reply was, 'tell them I am has sent you." The passage in Genesis says that the Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses in the bush. We know that the Angel of the LORD is the pre-incarnate Christ. Jesus also said that the words He spoke were not His but the Father's.

2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; (Exod. 3:2-7 KJV)

It says the messenger of the LORD appeared to Moses. Jesus pointed out that He spoke the words of the Father. So, Him speaking in the first person for the Father would be expected. So when He says, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, we can understand that these are the words of the Father, but are being spoken by the messenger of the LORD. So, when Jesus says in John 8, 'unless you believe I am', He is indicating that He is the one who was in the bush rather than indicating that He is God.

Also, where is says God called out to Moses, in the Greek Old Testament, it says the Lord called out to him. It uses the word Lord rather than God.

 

[eddif]

I would submit that when Jesus said, 'unless you believe I am', He was implying that it was He who was in the burning bush who spoke to Moses. When Moses was sent to the Israelites he said, who should I say sent me. The reply was, 'tell them I am has sent you." The passage in Genesis says that the Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses in the bush. We know that the Angel of the LORD is the pre-incarnate Christ. Jesus also said that the words He spoke were not His but the Father's.

2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; (Exod. 3:2-7 KJV)

It says the messenger of the LORD appeared to Moses. Jesus pointed out that He spoke the words of the Father. So, Him speaking in the first person for the Father would be expected. So when He says, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, we can understand that these are the words of the Father, but are being spoken by the messenger of the LORD. So, when Jesus says in John 8, 'unless you believe I am', He is indicating that He is the one who was in the bush rather than indicating that He is God.

Also, where is says God called out to Moses, in the Greek Old Testament, it says the Lord called out to him. It uses the word Lord rather than God.

Burning bush.

IMHO
I Peter 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Got to know Moses was about to be tried.
Exodus 4:24 kjv
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Jesus went through the trial / Fire of life and death on cross, but it did not consume him

Moses went through being delivered from death by another.

We go through the Holy Spirit striving against our flesh and are interceded for.

The burning bush took years to unwind this much.

Jesus speaks to us out of the same firey situation, but he was without sin.

The branches we are are not consumed. Though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we have direction.

The father sent his only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit is involved.

Someone help me explain my explanation.
eddif

 

[Razeontherock]

Eddif, your explanation points to Trinity. I hope that helps. Another place we see it is when Isaiah 33:22 refers to God as Judge, Lawgiver, and King.

I certainly have no objection to the Trinity either. I just do not believe it is clear enough for anyone to be claiming that belief in the Trinity is an essential. There are certainly verses outside of John indicating that Jesus was preexistent and that all of creation was by and through him, so it is not as though one can reasonably take the position that Jesus did not become the Son of God until his birth or baptism or anything like that. In some sense, he clearly was understood as divine by the earliest Christians, but "divine" does not necessarily equate to "the Second Person of the Trinity." If someone finds it a useful way of thinking about Jesus or the nature of God, I'm fine with that.

Somewhat counterintuitively, the scholarly books on the Trinity that I have read argue that "Son of Man" is Jesus' clearest claim to divinity.

I'm not going to start down the Trinity Road because it has no end, but I am highly suspect of any doctrine that relies primarily on the Gospel of John. The Jesus of John is so utterly different from the Jesus of the Synoptics that it is difficult to believe we are talking about the same individual. Of course, if someone believes all gospels are equally inspired and equally historically accurate, his mileage will vary.

As jaybird suggests, for a doctrine that many Christians regard as fundamental and "so clear," the Trinity certainly has a checkered history and has been the source of an astounding amount of confusion and controversy. If the doctrine were really "so clear," I think all of us who question it would be delighted to acknowledge this.

If ever John's Gospel is perceived as contradicting the rest, GO WITH JOHN! You will never go wrong, and as your Faith develops you will see there was never any contradiction.

Rather than claiming there is no end to debating Trinity, the end of it is long before the development of the Creeds. Baptisms in Scripture settle the argument, quite deliberately. The Creeds came along much later, as further explanation, specifically to remove any possibility of such debate from within the Church.

Further, in terms of the "development of doctrine," Trinity became a thing specifically to help understand Jesus' words; "thinking about Jesus and the nature of God" as you write at the end of your first post I quote here. This occurred while all 5 original Churches we're still in fellowship with one another, and they agreed unanimously on this point; conditions necessary for the "development of doctrine."

There are not conditions to flippantly toss about as "if it helps you I'm fine with that." This is foundational to Christianity itself. The early Church went to great lengths to put an end to any need for speculation on this!

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Unfortunately, many cults and religions deny the truth of the Trinity. From Mormons to Jehovah Witnesses to Muslims they simply call Jesus a prophet or great teacher or anything other than God. However, from Genesis when God says, "Let us make man in our image" to the Jesus' Great Commission when he says, "Go and make disciples..." and then lists the Trinity we say God's word delineating that truth. Even the Apostle Thomas after Jesus rose from the dead said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God." Christians only need to do a little research to find numerous places where the Trinity is mentioned in the Bible.

Just like Jesus didnt say the exact words I am God, the trinity is similar. It can easy be found. Jesus said to a woman he is the Messiah and also told some Jews how could the Messiah be Davids Son if David calls the Messiah his Lord.

So, if Jesus is the Messiah as he claimed and said the Messiah is Lord of David, there alone is just one example in scripture how Jesus declaired he is Lord.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jesus didnt say the exact words I am God

Actually, He did.
Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
The words "I Am" is the name of God which God gave to Moses from the burning bush.
Exo 3:14b And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
The Jews would have immediately understood that Jesus was calling himself God. Their response to his statement verifies that understanding.
Jhn 8:59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus said the same thing when the Jews came to arrest Him in the Garden.
Jhn 18:4-5 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
Jhn 18:6 Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
(I believe they fell to the ground because of the power of the name of God; "I AM" and because the name of God includes the presence of God.)
Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,”
Notice that the word "He" is italicized in each verse. That's because it is not in the Greek text.
The Greek text says, "I Am." (ἐγώ εἰμί - ego eimi)

 

[Razeontherock]

Man oh man a like button does not do justice to the precious Truth conveyed in that last post!

The Power of speaking the Name was enough to bowl over a dozen or so muscle bound soldiers, of the greatest army this planet had ever seen!

Not to get all Pentacostal / Fundagelical on ya Jim, but ya done preached me happy!

And just so you know, on the other site I thoroughly explored EO theology, and found it to line up perfectly with what God had revealed to me via my own lifetime of searching. (Do you see what I did there? I deliberately put that priority backwards, haha) Before that I thought my Faith was unique, or rare. I guess I was finally ready for God to show me that what He had been revealing to me was actually ancient.

What I want to know, is how did He roll away the stone? I know you can't answer that, and I'm sure when I finally see Him face to face, it won't be the first thing on my mind, lol.

Enoch is another guy I look forward to having a nice long chat with ...

 

[eddif]

What I want to know, is how did He roll away the stone? I know you can't answer that, and I'm sure when I finally see Him face to face, it won't be the first thing on my mind, lol.

Isaiah 14:12 (look at various translations)
II Corinthians 11:14 (“)

Good guy angels of light vs bad guy imitation angels of light vs transfigured Jesus.

I presume you are reading Matthew 28 and thinking that is Jesus sitting on the stone.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Jim Parker]

What I want to know, is how did He roll away the stone?

God, who created the universe, wouldn't have a problem with a stone.