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Unfortunately, many cults and religions deny the truth of the Trinity. From Mormons to Jehovah Witnesses to Muslims they simply call Jesus a prophet or great teacher or anything other than God. However, from Genesis when God says, "Let us make man in our image" to the Jesus' Great Commission when he says, "Go and make disciples..." and then lists the Trinity we say God's word delineating that truth. Even the Apostle Thomas after Jesus rose from the dead said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God." Christians only need to do a little research to find numerous places where the Trinity is mentioned in the Bible.
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
 
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Just to clarify, are you saying the trinity is not supported in Scripture based on the text references you provided above? If that is what you are implying I respectfully disagree and actually see the above texts as lending credence to the Trinity doctine.
 
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
In looking at Deut. 6:4, Isa. 44:6, and James 2:19, we can see that they have nothing to do with whether or not God is triune. They are not statements regarding the ontological nature of God, rather, they are statements of monotheism, something that most every theology proper believes to be true (Mormonism being an obvious exclusion and perhaps some other obscure belief systems). Those verses are about believing in the one true God over and above all other false gods.

Paul, in expanding on the Shema, includes Jesus:

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (ESV)

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

A lot more can be said about that verse but that is all I have time for at the moment.

John 10:30 is speaking of being one in nature, of the same essence.
 
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

One. Excellent reminder there.
Trinity is derived from the Latin, Trinitas. Meaning, the number three, triad, tri-more than one.
Those verses declare there is only one God.

That passage is a reminder that God is spirit. Not separate from holy spirit.
And the 81 scriptures that tell us God is holy would then consolidate God = holy spirit.
I think the problem or confusion that arises is the reading of the scriptures wherein people think God is a separate individual, then those scriptures that refer to the holy spirit appear to be speaking of other than God.

The scriptures that tell us God is a spirit then John 4:24 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."
Pneuma=Spirit , wind, air, spiritual being.
God=Theos, a deity, an idol, God, the true God.

The verse in Deuteronomy 6:4 in the Orthodox Jewish Bible reads, Devarim 6:4 Shema Yisroel Adonoi Eloheinu Adonoi Echad.

Shema Yisroel Adonoi Eloheinu Adonoi Echad
one LORD our God (is) The LORD O Israel Hear!
 
One. Excellent reminder there.
Trinity is derived from the Latin, Trinitas. Meaning, the number three, triad, tri-more than one.
Those verses declare there is only one God.
The doctrine of the Trinity states that there is only God. Monotheism is absolutely central to the Trinity as it is central to Christianity.
 
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
To deny the trinity requires that one assert that when Jesus says that He would ask the Father to send the Spirit, is was actually saying "I will ask myself to send myself" and that when Jesus prayed to the Father he was talking to himself. It requires that Jesus be a flim-flam man who can do illusions ;ike making voices come from heaven and create the appearance of a dove settling on him.

What is clear from reading the scriptures is that there is one God and that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God but, while they are the one God they are not one "person." (Hypostasis)

This was all settled between the 4th and 7th centuries by highly qualified and knowledgeable men, in particular Athanasius, Basil the Great, Gregory Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa.

If anyone wants to deny the Trinity,he will have to demonstrate where they were all wrong.

iakov the fool
 
Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Trinitarians (like me) know God is one. We say that all the time. There is only ONE God.

Papa (a Trinitarian believer)

Holy, Holy, Holy!
 
i will be happy to agree to disagree. i think He is claiming to be the Christ, Son of the Most High, like the book purpose says. i could be wrong. i am not the final authority.
you could very well be correct.
i hate for these discussions to get heated so i am backing out. i hope you have a great evening.
Praise His name!

You talk about the purpose of the book. John 1 starts out telling us of Christ's equality and oneness with the Father. John 17 rather elaborates on this point.

The Apostles focus on Christ being equal to and one with the Father, throughout their writings. This is unmistakable. Trinity helps us understand not only that Jesus was fully human and fully God, but also how by the Holy Spirit we can pursue this state of Oneness, which Jesus was praying for in John 17.
 
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Or, readers need only to infer trinity is in the Bible when it is not.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! " James 2:19

Trinity believers should remember this.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

This is a false dichotomy; a logical fallacy demonstrating flawed thinking.
 
Really we are all one in the body of Christ.

We try so hard to seek truth that we exclude others if we do not watch out.

One of my favorite scriptures is:
(There is one name under heaven whereby you may be saved). That says what?
By maybe implication:
There are many names under heaven.
The Father has a whole list of descriptive names (often called titles).

Jesus has a whole list of names ( often called titles).

John was a prevelant name. He presented repentance, but salvation was not under his name.

Salvation is only under the name of Jesus. Now that might get twisted a little, but finally I decided that (hey): this is a major statement trinitarians need to recognize. There may be other names, but there is literally one name whereby we are saved. As a trinitarian I feel:
1 All groups believe in repentance
2 All groups believe in eternal life
3 All groups believe in Gods Spirit

So given that. Why do we not all hug each other, and get on with things. Are we all livers? Are we all kidneys? Are we all lungs? Are we all stomachs? Are we all hearts?
Why no.
But we need all functions.
This is a call for unity and acknowledging what each has not yet seen we need the different functions.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Really we are all one in the body of Christ.

We try so hard to seek truth that we exclude others if we do not watch out.

One of my favorite scriptures is:
(There is one name under heaven whereby you may be saved). That says what?
By maybe implication:
There are many names under heaven.
The Father has a whole list of descriptive names (often called titles).

Jesus has a whole list of names ( often called titles).

John was a prevelant name. He presented repentance, but salvation was not under his name.

Salvation is only under the name of Jesus. Now that might get twisted a little, but finally I decided that (hey): this is a major statement trinitarians need to recognize. There may be other names, but there is literally one name whereby we are saved. As a trinitarian I feel:
1 All groups believe in repentance
2 All groups believe in eternal life
3 All groups believe in Gods Spirit

So given that. Why do we not all hug each other, and get on with things. Are we all livers? Are we all kidneys? Are we all lungs? Are we all stomachs? Are we all hearts?
Why no.
But we need all functions.
This is a call for unity and acknowledging what each has not yet seen we need the different functions.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
It's hard not to notice that you not only didn't address Scripture that was posted, you posted none to support anything you said, apart from a paraphrased portion from 1 Cor. 12 that is a serious misapplication on your part. And it all rather begs the question.
 
This is a false dichotomy; a logical fallacy demonstrating flawed thinking.
I've heard someone insult a member like that before.
Fortunately, you can be corrected in time so as to inform you their post contained God's word.

You're therefore insulting God. God said he is one and there is no other. God is holy spirit. There is not God and then a separate holy spirit. That's not scripture. God begat himself into the body of Mary. Entirely. God created the first humans therefore God created himself to appear human when Emmanuel, God with us, which can't become much clearer when God used a Hebrew name to inform all who heard it when introduced to Emmanuel in Jewish society whom they were encountering, was born of woman and was entirely created by God his Father.
Hear oh Israel our God our God is one.
God is holy spirit. Jesus said himself when you have seen him you have seen the Father.
Denying that very simple statement by Emmanuel himself is saying Emmanuel had no idea what he was talking about. False dichotomy, logical fallacy demonstrating flawed thinking.

Tritheism is pagan. And not of God.
 
Pointing out a logical fallacy is in no way an insult to the person, neither is tritheism in any way Trinity.

The post I responded to was stating that either God is One, or God is three. This is a false dichotomy, thinking it must be one or the other when other possibilities exist. The other important possibility being the ancient teaching of the Church on Trinity: that God is One, and we know Him in three Persons; Father Son and Holy Ghost.

These two coexist. It is not one or the other. Neither discredits the other; the Oneness of God and the three Persons we know. We are even told His Godhead is eternal.
 
You're therefore insulting God. God said he is one and there is no other.
You keep repeating this without addressing counter-arguments. Repeating something does not make it true. As has been repeated to you, Trinitarianism fully affirms monotheism, that there is only one true, living God.

God is holy spirit. There is not God and then a separate holy spirit. That's not scripture.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
...
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (ESV)

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (ESV)

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (ESV)

And on it goes. The main problem for you here is that Trinitarianism correctly recognizes the continual distinction the Bible makes between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If they are all one and the same, this continual distinction is pointless.

God begat himself into the body of Mary. Entirely. God created the first humans therefore God created himself to appear human when Emmanuel, God with us, which can't become much clearer when God used a Hebrew name to inform all who heard it when introduced to Emmanuel in Jewish society whom they were encountering, was born of woman and was entirely created by God his Father.
A couple of serious problems with this. First, if God created himself to appear as human, then two issues arise: (1) God only appeared human and wasn't actually human, and (2) if he was really human, then he wouldn't have a fallen human nature that we have all inherited from Adam, which means he wasn't truly human, possibly not even susceptible to temptation, which makes his temptations pointless. Rather, we know that Jesus was fully human, that his human nature wrestled with his divine nature, that he struggled with temptation in some way yet did not sin.

Second, a father is never his own son, nor a son his own father. Not only is that a logical absurdity, it renders the analogy of the Father/Son relationship meaningless. If the Father and Son are separate "persons," and they are, it brings significant meaning to much of Scripture, particularly with respect to us. You must seriously consider the whole purpose and significance of God relating to us largely through a Father/Son relationship.

Hear oh Israel our God our God is one.
I already addressed the main issue with this but you didn't respond. In addition to what I stated earlier, you even provided a Hebrew rendering of the Shema (Deut. 6:4). In that, we see that when God says he is "one," the word used is 'echad. If God had wanted to say he was an absolute unity (which is what you are trying to make the verse say), yachid would have been the word to use. It is telling that the Bible never uses yachid of God. Instead, the Bible uses 'echad, which is the same as the English word "one" and can be used as a compound unity. Hence why I stated that the verse says nothing either way but it does leave the door wide open for a Trinitarian understanding of God.

A compound unity is something like: "One nation under God." There is only one nation, yes, but that tells us nothing about the nature of that nation. It could be a nation of 100 people, 35 million people, 350 million people, etc.

God is holy spirit. Jesus said himself when you have seen him you have seen the Father.
Denying that very simple statement by Emmanuel himself is saying Emmanuel had no idea what he was talking about. False dichotomy, logical fallacy demonstrating flawed thinking.
The false dichotomy here is on your part. You are saying that the only two understandings of this text is that Jesus either was the Father or he didn't know what he was talking about. But one other alternative is that your understanding of the text is wrong.

Look at some of the context of John 14:19:

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
Joh 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
...
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. (ESV)

Notice that Jesus does not say that "I am the Father and the Father is me". Whatever Jesus means by "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father," he most certainly cannot mean that he is the Father, otherwise it creates an even greater difficulty in much of what he says following that in this chapter alone, never mind the rest of Scripture. Jesus clearly distinguishes himself from the Father, yet claims equality with him.

Tritheism is pagan. And not of God.
Of course tritheism is pagan and not of God, but that is not at all what we're discussing. This is about the Trinity, the triune nature of God. You simply lose credibility when you either cannot tell the difference between tritheism and the Trinity, or setup the straw man of tritheism and using it to argue against the Trinity.
 
It's hard not to notice that you not only didn't address Scripture that was posted, you posted none to support anything you said, apart from a paraphrased portion from 1 Cor. 12 that is a serious misapplication on your part. And it all rather begs the question.
Post #1 had no scripture.
Acts 4:12 KJV
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I Corinthians 12:21 KJV
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Galatians 3:23 KJV
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)
Would you explain:
Fathers baptism
Sons baptism
Holy Spirits baptism
Fire baptism

As trinitarians I think that is not a problem to explain.
......

The Bereans searched the scripture to see if what is spoken is true.
Acts 17:11 KJV
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Calling for peace / understanding among us.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
I've heard someone insult a member like that before.
When Razor.. said, "This is a false dichotomy; a logical fallacy demonstrating flawed thinking. ", that was not an insult. It was an observation of an error similar to telling someone that they made an error in addition.
A logical fallacy is a flaw of thinking.
To point it out that someone made a mistake is not an insult.
It is actually a help.
 
John 1 starts out telling us of Christ's equality and oneness with the Father.
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word" - The word is eternal, without beginning.
"and the Word was with God" - The the word "with" demonstrates that the Word and God are not the same person. (Gr. "hypostasis")
"and the Word was God." - The Word is God as God is God.

Acts 5:3- 4
"Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit.......? ..... You have not lied to men but to God.
"
Thereby, Peter identifies the Holy Spirit as God.

John 14:16-17 I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
Here Jesus identifies the Holy Spirit as being a separate person from Himself and from the Father.

John 15:26
But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Here Jesus names the three persons of the Trinity.

The Trinity is fully supported by scripture. The only thing that is not "Biblical" is the word "Trinity". That word was created to refer in one word to what the scriptures reveal in many words.

iakov the fool
 
That was not an insult. It was an observation of an error similar to telling someone that they made an error in addition.
A logical fallacy is a flaw of thinking.
To point it out that someone made a mistake is not an insult.
We all make mistakes.
This is true without a doubt. The first mistake in this instance is to be one who avows we must work to remain saved and from that premise then argue that there are three separate and distinct powers overseeing creation. When the Bible expressly states repeatedly in the old and new testaments and from the mouth of God himself as Emmanuel. There is only one! And no other.
If a Christian first believes God exists and is all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent, and creator of everything that is, was, or ever shall be, as the word states, then they certainly cannot say they know God who said he is one and there is no other was mistaken.
God is holy spirit. Emmanuel is God. Emmanuel was God in the womb of Mary. He was God on the cross. He was God when he healed people. He was God when he returned to life from the tomb, womb, after three days and walked the earth for 40 more and then returned to himself in his full glory. Having brought forth his divine plan of new covenant salvation for the worlds sinners.
God.
It is all God. One God.
Mono-Theism.
One-God

I've observed atheist forums and the central topic of discussion without exception is God. And particularly Christians.
One thing though that they seem to find disconcerting, and some amusing, is the Christian avows they are a monotheist. But they worship three separate powers. Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
The three were always one. God is holy spirit. And Emmanuel was nothing less than God.

There are those that try to challenge scripture by claiming that can't be true because Jesus would be speaking to himself then when he was praying to the Father.
That is an error in understanding.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The scriptures tell us no one can look upon God and live. Emmanuel was, God with us. God sent himself in human form so that people could look upon the Father of all things and learn of his new covenant gift of grace from God himself. And live!
When Jesus was praying to God he was first demonstrating to those who saw this how to pray. Emmanuel served as example. God in flesh with a sinless human form that could raise the dead, heal the blind, cast out demons, make the lame to walk. And in his ministry he told his followers that they too could do all these things.

As he informed the crowd that followed him as he gave the sermon on the mountain. "When ye pray pray like this...."
The Son did not first come into being in Bethlehem. The Son always existed and was referred to countless times in the old testament. Emmanuel was the Son of God and the Son of Man. God in holy spirit, God in flesh=Emmanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 6For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The wrong thinking is three separate and distinct. When there is one God that is holy spirit and by his own deliverance of message through his emissary, angel, to Mary, to become the human child Emmanuel, who was to be named by God's decree, Himself with us. I.E. Emmanuel=God with us.

That emissary between humanity and God for the sins committed by those in the body of Christ is that covenantal deliverer as our own kind bringing to the world his saving grace. Our faith, our redemption in him, our reunion with God from the land of the dead in our sins, unto the redeemed in the anointed, "Christ". No one comes to the Father but through the Son. He is the narrow gate.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The simple scripture of Father's word to say this is, John 1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were created by him, and apart from him not a single thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
That which disputes this was forewarned of also by Father's words.

Well did Isaiah prophesy of you saying, “This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.” (Isaiah15:7-9).
 
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