True Acts 2:38 Christians will not go through the Great Tribulation

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

This makes complete sense to me I don't know how you sorted it, but it makes sense.

Well that is the conclusion you want me to come to.

Have you ever actually read back in English, what you rearranged in the Greek, in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3.

Let me read back to you what you are trying to convince me of, by your "understanding" of the female Greek noun.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering [Resurrection & Rapture] together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away [Resurrection & Rapture] comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3


You are honestly trying to convince people that Jesus won't return and gather His people at the Resurrection and Rapture, until the Resurrection and Rapture and the man of sin is revealed. :crazy

By saying the apostasy really means departure [Rapture], that is what you are trying to make this verse say.

You somehow keep forgetting that the Resurrection of the dead comes before the Rapture.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

The resurrection of the dead, which includes the tribulation saints, happens before the Rapture.

The Resurrection of the dead happens when Jesus returns at the end of the age.

The resurrection happens on the last Day of this age.

The age to come is the age of the resurrection.

This is an elementary teaching of the Kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

=Brother Mike;831832]

Don't thank me thank Jesus Christ who warns us not to follow after these false Christs:

Luke 21:8

King James Version (KJV)

NO, I thank you. In my few 15 years in the Word of God, I have yet to hear of these False Angel Christ running around telling everyone of a Fly away belief in the Pre-trib. I am boarding up my windows as I type this, being grateful that these False Angel Christ are only going to try to confuse people about some pre-trib.

We all got to be aware of this Pre-trib Doctrine, it will send you straight to the fires of Hell, where you will roast!!!!

You keep getting this message out, warn people about flying away!!! What a doomed world we live in....... Oh my..................

Mike.



*well in your 15 years of bible study did you ever read matt 24:4-5? or matt 24:21-31? did you skip mark 13:5-6? or matt 13:19-28? have you never read luke 21:8 or 19-29? have you ever read II thess 2 where paul warns as Christ does before HIS parousia and our gathering the falling away and revealing of satan to be worshiped must happen? ever wonder why Jesus warns not to follow after the false Christs? or why satan disguises himself and claims to be God to be worshiped?

oh my you might need to study more...hey and maybe you can post the verse where paul actually says Jesus Christ comes before the tribulation because II thess 2 paul says the Lord is him whose parousia is after the working of satan.


Jesus says in matt 13:30 the tares are gathered first not the church, many will see them claiming to be Jesus and follow after them purging them as tares away from the wheat who refuses to worship satanor fall for his pre trib rapture lies.


Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

Matthew 24:21-31

King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.




here's the post trib rapture Jesus Christ teaches:



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



A. purging of tares by false Christs and satan claiming to be God

after the tribulation of false Christs

B. Jesus Christ returns with those who died saved and His angels gather us to Him (returning to Jerusalem zech 14 rev 14)

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

the resurrection of the saved dead started when Jesus Christ rose matt 27, Christians die and rise to Him daily in our own order and we will return WITH Him I thess 4:13-14,jude 1:14-15,rev 19

matt 27
0 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

King James Version (KJV)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.






1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.




Jude 1:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


rev 19

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.




Acts 7


54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.






1 Corinthians 15:42-45

King James Version (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.




50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.





ALL will change from flesh to spiritual at Jesus Christ's post tribulation rapture:


II pet 3
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Eventide]

Do you think that only Jew's make up Israel?

I think that Jew means of the tribe of Judah and if that's the case then no, Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons and these are the twelve tribes of Israel. If you're talking in general as I often do and mean Jews as in Israelites, then yes.

Notice that they're slightly different in Revelation 7, I think that Dan is out and Manasses is in.

If so, are you saying that there are no Christian Jew's,as they are blinded?

The church of God was predominantly Jewish in the beginning because the gospel is to them first.. and after that nation's continued rejection of the gospel, God raised up the Apostle Paul to take the gospel to the Gentiles.. since then the church has been predominantly Gentile.

So the answer to your question would be no.

Israel as a nation is blinded in part.. and any Jew (Israelite) can be saved today as any Gentile can through the gospel of God's Son. Although because Israel is currently cut off from the root (Christ), they're members of the church of God which is the body of Christ and their citizenship is in heaven.

.02

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. not "any moment"

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?






2 Thessalonians 2:6-12

King James Version (KJV)

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


God lets till michael the restrainer is allowed to kick satan out of heaven, the Holy Spirit can't be taken from anywhere as God is omni-present and Jesus says He will deliver us from the hour (of temptation) when we believers are delivered up to death (the devil heb 2:14) by giving us what to say by the Holy Spirit luke 21,mark 13



8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, see matt 24:21-28

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

You somehow keep forgetting that the Resurrection of the dead comes before the Rapture.

yes, the dead in Christ are raised first. Then BAM with a twinkle of an eye we join them with our new bodies. We are hanging out in Rev 5 (Heaven) we scoot back down with the Lord. Blessed are those that took part in this first resurrection. Those that are alive at that time will escape the Wrath of God (Great tribulation) at that time we are delivered.

I am not sure why your fighting so hard to stick around. It's cool, but I have a big issue with 144,000 Jews getting anointed and the only ones protected from the monsters in the smoking pit are them. So, No mighty anointed, tongue speaking, devil casting out, lay hands on sick getting healed US anywhere !!!! Then God brings two witness in the mix. 2 of them, not all us filled with the Holy Spirit and just messes with the AC's mind so bad that when they think they finally got them beat down the Whole world rejoices they are gone..... We are we????? The Gospel of Christ? ..

No some angel runs around speaking the gospel....... That is our job..

So the only other options is that we just all hid out somewhere playing video games and eating pizza while the whole thing blows over.
You need to change your position here JLB. We are seriously not there. change your position or your paying for Pizza.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

The COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE mean anything to you? You think in the future all the bibles just vanish? We wake up one morning and Poof!!!! all gone. It will be amazing.

Your typing a lot of stuff Watchmen for Christ only 40 post, you completely ignore all the previous post which give explanation for most of your scriptures you posted. Just a complete lack of respect here. Now all the bibles just vanish by some mysterious force.

You don't explain or teach the scriptures your posting, your just posting scriptures.............. why??? Lay off the copy and past, explain some of these if it's beneath you to go back and address those same scriptures already covered and posted.

I am trying to find something to take you serious, but your really making it very difficult.

 

[n2thelight]

Brother Mike

NO, I thank you. In my few 15 years in the Word of God, I have yet to hear of these False Angel Christ running around telling everyone of a Fly away belief in the Pre-trib. I am boarding up my windows as I type this, being grateful that these False Angel Christ are only going to try to confuse people about some pre-trib.

We all got to be aware of this Pre-trib Doctrine, it will send you straight to the fires of Hell, where you will roast!!!!

You keep getting this message out, warn people about flying away!!! What a doomed world we live in....... Oh my..................

Mike.

Mike do you know who the 7000 are in the below verse?

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan who will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.

This is the time Christ returns,not a moment before no rapture,only His 2nd coming!!!!!

There are only two advents of Christ in all of scripture,how people try to make it three is beyond me.........The message will be that Christ is here......

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

=Brother Mike;832004]

You somehow keep forgetting that the Resurrection of the dead comes before the Rapture.

yes, the dead in Christ are raised first. Then BAM with a twinkle of an eye we join them with our new bodies. We are hanging out in Rev 5 (Heaven) we scoot back down with the Lord. Blessed are those that took part in this first resurrection. Those that are alive at that time will escape the Wrath of God (Great tribulation) at that time we are delivered.


*nah, Jesus says His coming and our gathering is after the tribulation of false Christs , paul says the lord's parousia is after the working of satan. read matt 13:30 Jesus says the tares are gathered first not the church. believers refuse a fly away doctrine as that's the lie that leads people to be deceived when false Christs come claiming to be Jesus.




I am not sure why your fighting so hard to stick around. It's cool, but I have a big issue with 144,000 Jews getting anointed and the only ones protected from the monsters in the smoking pit are them.

*rev 7 says 144000 from each tribe then the great multitude from every nation kindred and tongue also make it out of the great tribulation.




So, No mighty anointed, tongue speaking, devil casting out, lay hands on sick getting healed US anywhere !!!!

*wow I guess you may have skipped where paul says satan is coming shewing himself as and claiming to be God calling it the working of satan with all power signs and lying wonders or in rev. where satan is able to call down fire from heaven in the sight of men?




Then God brings two witness in the mix. 2 of them, not all us filled with the Holy Spirit and just messes with the AC's mind so bad that when they think they finally got them beat down the Whole world rejoices they are gone..... We are we????? The Gospel of Christ? ..

No some angel runs around speaking the gospel....... That is our job..

So the only other options is that we just all hid out somewhere playing video games and eating pizza while the whole thing blows over.
You need to change your position here JLB. We are seriously not there. change your position or your paying for Pizza.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

The COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE mean anything to you? You think in the future all the bibles just vanish? We wake up one morning and Poof!!!! all gone. It will be amazing.


*amazing is where did I say that? the council of toulouse didn't die on the cross for my sins and the sins of the world Jesus Christ did and He says His coming and our gathering is after the tribulation in matt 24:29-31 not before so thanks but I'll stick with him.

Your typing a lot of stuff Watchmen for Christ only 40 post, you completely ignore all the previous post which give explanation for most of your scriptures you posted. Just a complete lack of respect here. Now all the bibles just vanish by some mysterious force.

You don't explain or teach the scriptures your posting, your just posting scriptures.............. why??? Lay off the copy and past, explain some of these if it's beneath you to go back and address those same scriptures already covered and posted.


*you have no answers so you have to divert attention to me personally, no problem maybe you can post the verse that says Jesus Christ is coming pre trib? love to see it as I can't find it.

I am trying to find something to take you serious, but your really making it very difficult.[/QUOTE]

*I really don't care what men think but thanks for trying I do hope you make it to Jesus' post trib rapture and aren't taken first by satan's event
Matthew 24:29-31

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Brother Mike

NO, I thank you. In my few 15 years in the Word of God, I have yet to hear of these False Angel Christ running around telling everyone of a Fly away belief in the Pre-trib. I am boarding up my windows as I type this, being grateful that these False Angel Christ are only going to try to confuse people about some pre-trib.

We all got to be aware of this Pre-trib Doctrine, it will send you straight to the fires of Hell, where you will roast!!!!

You keep getting this message out, warn people about flying away!!! What a doomed world we live in....... Oh my..................

Mike.

Mike do you know who the 7000 are in the below verse?

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan who will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.

This is the time Christ returns,not a moment before no rapture,only His 2nd coming!!!!!

There are only two advents of Christ in all of scripture,how people try to make it three is beyond me.........The message will be that Christ is here......

 

[n2thelight]

Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Acts 3:20 "And He shall send Jesus Christ, Which before was preached unto you:"

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

It is written that on the first day of the Millennium age, at Christ's return, every knee shall bow to Christ. Romans 14:11; "For it is written, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Jesus is quoting here from Isaiah 45:22, 23; "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." [22] "I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." [23]

Question,as per verse 21,if Christ must remain in Heaven,how does He get out to rapture you all away?????

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Acts 3:20 "And He shall send Jesus Christ, Which before was preached unto you:"

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

It is written that on the first day of the Millennium age, at Christ's return, every knee shall bow to Christ. Romans 14:11; "For it is written, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Jesus is quoting here from Isaiah 45:22, 23; "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." [22] "I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." [23]

Question,as per verse 21,if Christ must remain in Heaven,how does He get out to rapture you all away?????

n2thelight
personally I use the words rapture/gathering/harvest as the same 2nd advent coming of Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him at His 2nd advent.(post trib rapture,gathering) as you know Christ Jesus does not come "before the tribulation" to take anyone away as we believers don't cut and run but stand up for Jesus names sake and endure during the tribulation.

 

[n2thelight]

Watchmen

n2thelight
personally I use the words rapture/gathering/harvest as the same 2nd advent coming of Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him at His 2nd advent.(post trib rapture,gathering) as you know Christ Jesus does not come "before the tribulation" to take anyone away as we believers don't cut and run but stand up for Jesus names sake and endure during the tribulation.

I know exactly what you mean,I just don't like to use it,as I don't believe in a rapture at all Pre,Mid or Post....Unless we die before He comes is the only way we get to Heaven,as from there He brings us back with Him,where He shall forever rule ,from Jerusalem....But I know what you mean.....We must stand against satan,not run away,that's the purpose of the Gospel Armour,and it's also the time true tongues will be spoken again,when we are delivered up to satan..........I want to be one of those that the Holy Spirit speaks through...Can't wait!!!!

Oh, but I use gather to Him as well.....

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Watchmen

n2thelight
personally I use the words rapture/gathering/harvest as the same 2nd advent coming of Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him at His 2nd advent.(post trib rapture,gathering) as you know Christ Jesus does not come "before the tribulation" to take anyone away as we believers don't cut and run but stand up for Jesus names sake and endure during the tribulation.

I know exactly what you mean,I just don't like to use it,as I don't believe in a rapture at all Pre,Mid or Post....Unless we die before He comes is the only way we get to Heaven,as from there He brings us back with Him,where He shall forever rule ,from Jerusalem....But I know what you mean.....We must stand against satan,not run away,that's the purpose of the Gospel Armour,and it's also the time true tongues will be spoken again,when we are delivered up to satan..........

I'm ready like you are to stand for our Lord Jesus Christ, what they gonna do, kill us & send us to heaven.. please send us

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

So now the rapture of the Church comes before Jesus returns to Rapture the Church, AND BEFORE the tribulation of the days the sun will be darkened...

Well now, that doesn't come out quite right does it? Regardless of the different doctrines there remains the question: how are the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 and four beasts or living ones of Rev 4:6 caught up and present with Jesus in heaven prior to the tribulation? Is it possible He comes in the air just before Rev 4:1 because John sees them there when he arrives?

They died and went to heaven.

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Blessed are those that took part in this first resurrection.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection.

Brother Mike, you are trying to convince us that these souls who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who didn't worship the beast nor his image, neither did they receive his mark, are in heaven because they were Raptured?

The word says how they got to heaven, THEY WERE MARTYRED DURING THE TRIBULATION.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Brother Mike, you are trying to convince us that these souls who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who didn't worship the beast nor his image, neither did they receive his mark, are in heaven because they were Raptured?

ughhhh. You know I am not. What I am saying is why God drops just two witness down that cause such great havoc and major headache for the Antichrist if we are also running around full of the Holy Spirit.
What do disciples of Christ do?


Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ, firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

We been over this already......................... take notes so you don't forget what we already have talked about.

IN CHRIST we shall be made alive, every man in order................. Those IN Christ follow this order. Christ (The anointed) firstfruits, then those that are his at his coming.

IN CHRIST!!!!

I don't want to have to keep telling you. Everyone that has part in the 1st Resurrection belong to Jesus. Those that are IN Christ, the Anointed church, the saved, Those Jesus produced first by Grace through faith. Then those that are his when He comes to earth.

We are not there!!!!! We are never mentioned during tribulation. No Church, No Gospel of Christ, No Brothers and Sisters, NOTHING!!!!! If the Church of the Lord Jesus was hanging out in Tribulation it would have been like the book of Acts. We would have been a part of some great things, going out in style.

What does God do? He picks 144,000 virgin Jewish folks over us. Then he picks two, Just two witness that cause major havoc. Those are the human wittiness during Tribulation.

God needs 144,000 Jewish folk cause we turn stupid at the end and can't get the job done anymore? Is that why? You and I just become blubbering idiots and forget every ounce of scripture we know and are absolutely no use to God anymore during tribulation?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

Avenge us Lord!!!!!

Luk_23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


Are we in there screaming for vengeance, or would be asking God to have mercy?

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

here we are, Hanging out in the throne room. We are coming back as Kings and Priest, redeemed from the Earth because of the Blood of Jesus.

We are not there!!!!

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

So now the rapture of the Church comes before Jesus returns to Rapture the Church, AND BEFORE the tribulation of the days the sun will be darkened...

Well now, that doesn't come out quite right does it? Regardless of the different doctrines there remains the question: how are the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 and four beasts or living ones of Rev 4:6 caught up and present with Jesus in heaven prior to the tribulation? Is it possible He comes in the air just before Rev 4:1 because John sees them there when he arrives?

They died and went to heaven.

Since in being caught up into heaven has a certain order, I believe your answer to be half correct, but what we call the rapture consists of the dead first, and then those alive caught up together to meet them in the air. This in fact should remain consistent with each successive group John sees in heaven. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order . .

1 Thessalonians 4:16 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Since in being caught up into heaven has a certain order, I believe your answer to be half correct, but what we call the rapture consists of the dead first, and then those alive caught up together to meet them in the air. This in fact should remain consistent with each successive group John sees in heaven. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order . .

Now that makes sense Eugene. I posted the scripture that the Order men follow IN Christ.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But (In Christ) every man in his own order: Christ, firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

Some are under the impression that Jesus being the first, produced no firstfruits. The dead IN CHRIST are the Lord's firstfruits.

Jas_1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Those that belong to God and the lamb follow afterward at his coming on Earth. It's not hard, right?

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ, firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You both add commas and take away words to twist God's word into something different.

Look at 1 Corinthians 15 here -

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-21


and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep...

those = everyone else who has died in Christ!!!

Please stop twisting God's word, Brother Mike.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Brother Mike, you are trying to convince us that these souls who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who didn't worship the beast nor his image, neither did they receive his mark, are in heaven because they were Raptured?

I hope you don’t mind me entering here with a suggestion of similarity using Nebuchadnezzar as the example of the man of sin.

Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

Oh no, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not do that according to Dan 3:18 “be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.†Those beheaded in Revelation will do the same because those things in Daniel were examples of things to come. 1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Did God forsake them in Daniel? No! Dan 3:25 “He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.†He will be with those beheaded in heaven also. Funny, I just had cause to use this same form of an answer on another reply.