Trump and Weinstein and hypocrisy on all sides.

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics' started by Barbarian, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    Lincoln's first year was horrible. He looked weak and the country was falling apart. It was one terrible thing after another. And that kin his first 100 days. Yet he is rated number 1 by CSPAN.

    James Buchanan was a terrible President and from the start was considered a poor leader.

    Andrew Johnson refused to work with the Republican congress and was nearly impeached.

    Warren G Harding's administration was plagued with scandals.

    How about Martin Van Buren When he became President the economy was booming but in less thatn three months, businesses and bank were failing and Van Buren impliment policies that historians all agree made things worse.


    "President Jimmy Carter, for instance, took office with large majorities of his party in the House and Senate, as has President Trump. But Mr. Carter’s inability to connect with congressional leaders, in part due to staffers who expressed disdain for legislative leaders, stymied his agenda from his first months. Congress refused to go along with his proposed cuts to “pork barrel” spending projects. They rejected a Carter consumer protection bill and labor reform package."

    "The Reagan administration suffered from intense infighting in its top ranks during its first months. Secretary of State Haig – who famously and wrongly insisted that “I am in charge” following the assassination attempt on Reagan by John Hinckley – was not the only casualty. National Security Adviser Richard V. Allan was eased out after only 11 months, in part because he could not referee stronger personalities in Reagan’s security circle."

    "Mr. Clinton’s first months were chaotic. His first two nominees for attorney general, Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood, both eventually withdrew due to revelations that they had employed undocumented immigrants as nannies. He became embroiled in controversy over his attempt to allow gays to serve in the military, ending in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise policy. His secretary of Defense, Les Aspin, proved to be too disorganized and not decisive enough to run the enormous business of the Pentagon. Mr. Aspin, a former member of Congress from Wisconsin and chair of the House Armed Services Committee, barely lasted a year in the job."
    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Polit...ear-troubles.-Trump-is-the-same-and-different

    FLASHBACK: Bill Clinton’s Chaotic, Confused, Failing First Year As President
    Clinton’s presidency was such a disaster in only four months that Time Magazine devoted a June 1993 cover story to his long string of failures. The cover featured a tiny Bill under the large print title, “The Incredible Shrinking President.” Inside the magazine, the headline asked: “Is Clinton up to the job? Americans are starting to wonder.”

    [​IMG]


    Time Magazine

    “Reports of chaos, confusion, and infighting seem to leak out of the West Wing on a daily basis. The president is his own worst enemy, easily distracted, obsessed with minutiae, and uninterested in instilling much order in his administration, the Atlantic wrote a month earlier. “His staffers, many of them young, don’t really know the ropes, and it shows.”
    http://thepoliticalinsider.com/bill-clintons-failing-presidency/

    https://freedomoutpost.com/flashback-bill-clintons-first-year-president-chaotic-confused-failing/

    https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/slideshows/the-7-worst-us-presidential-scandals?slide=9

    Hey Barbarian, do you want me to delete you from all the CE&P forums or will you just bow out gracefully? Or you could just eat some crow.
     
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  2. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    People say stupid things all the time. Trump said something stupid, look at what Madonna said about the white house, and Silverman calling for a military coup to overthrow the govn. Those comments if taken serious are the biggest crimes ever, terrorism and treason.
     
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  3. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    You're right. Saying is one thing. Doing another. They are not the same things. one is stupid in one direction, and the other is beyond stupid in another.

    ;)
     
  4. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    That isn't stupid. For people who value consent it is quite a horrifying thing to say, especially when it is very possible that that could have happened. That is the issue here, people in his position DO get away with doing things like that. Trump has been married multiple times, and is insanely rich and well connected. If it come from me or you maybe I can buy that angle a bit more? I am not financially impressive, well known or powerful. I imagine you aren't on Trump's level or even a millionaire. I'd still raise my eyebrow at you if were to say something in the same vein and might think a BIT less unless I knew you quite well, but the scenario isn't nearly as plausible. For Trump people in his position can and do get away with such things. So the humor isn't there. Though I have never thought of Trump as the brightest crayon in the box so maybe he doesn't get that? Lol
     
  5. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Edwin Stanton wrote a memo to Lincoln that essentially 'suggested' to Lincoln that he (Lincoln) butt out of running the country and let Stanton do it. Another of Stanton's suggestions was to start a war with England to draw the Confederacy back into the Union. However, Stanton eventually came around to Lincoln's way of thinking and became his most ardent supporter. Salmon Chase thought Lincoln unfit to be president and actively worked to undermine him.
    John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were so at odds with each other that it drove Washington to distraction.
    Yeah, there were worse administratiions than Trumps. All new admins start off rocky.....
    Learn your history barb before challenging it......
     
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  6. Willie T

    Willie T Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    You have GOT to be kidding!
     
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  7. Barbarian

    Barbarian Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    The question is, which of them had as much backbiting and churning as the Trump WH?

    None of them, it seems.

    Buff said that Lincoln had two difficult underlings, neither of which he had to fire. Trump would have been blessed to have had just two, and how many has he had to fire for problems getting along with others, corruption and whatever else?

    Washington also had one rivalry between two appointees. Again, much better than Trump.

    So perhaps the thing to do, is count the rivalries, and the people fired or resigned for Trump and then see who can top his record for disorganization and infighting.

    I'll take a look at it this weekend.
     
  8. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    Nope. Dead serious lol. First meeting/kiss that is btw. When we got to know eachother of course I didn't ask everytime. Once things are comfortable and we know what the boundaries are known constant questions are a big ole mood killer. But I have always preferred petite/younger ladies. Maybe if they were my size I wouldn't have it on my mind that much. XD My first girlfriend was only 5'3ish and had just turned 18 while I was 21 (I had dated here and there with others but nothing came of it). I wasn't the large bearded man then that I am now, but I still outsized her by quite a bit lol. Now I am dating a 19 year old. >_> <_<
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  9. Barbarian

    Barbarian Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Let's go with number of staffers fired or resigned first year, an number of infighting rivalries that got out of hand sufficient for the public to learn about it.

    That was the original claim, after all.
     
  10. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    I just proved you wrong. Be the man. Admit it. Gee I gave several examples. I'll start your 30 day ban tomorrow. See you in a month. :lol:wave
     
  11. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    The worst part of it is everyone he fired, Comey being the sole exception, was hand picked, and he supposedly only picks "the best people" XD Tells you all you need to know about his judgement really.
     
  12. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    No. I proved you wrong. See ya later. :hysterical

    Unless yer not a man of yer word
     
  13. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    You know us dirty liberals don't know what the value of our word is. Gosh Zoom! ;)
     
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  14. Uncle Siggy

    Uncle Siggy Member

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    You seem to be forgetting that his own opinion is good enough, everybody else has to have bulletproof proof (even though in most cases that isn't possible) and then it will still be pooh poohed/ignored. The term to describe this psychosis is "self appointed academia"...
     
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  15. godsquadgeek

    godsquadgeek Member

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  16. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Bush fault
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  17. Barbarian

    Barbarian Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    I gather that you looked at the numbers and realized that you had it wrong. Since you've decided to make your claim that Bill Clinton's WH had more firings/resignations and more infighting in the first year, let's get down to numbers. What have you got?

    You cited Reagan with two exits of staffers, and didn't say if Clinton had any. Let's see what you've got.

    Stephen K. Bannon Chief strategist Out after less than seven months
    Mike Dubke Communications director Out after three months
    Michael T. Flynn National security adviser Out after three weeks
    Sebastian Gorka White House adviser Out after less than eight months
    K. T. McFarland Deputy national security adviser Out after four months
    Reince Priebus Chief of staff Out after six months
    Anthony Scaramucci Communications director Out after one week
    Sean Spicer Press secretary, communications director Out after six months
    Katie Walsh Deputy chief of staff Out after two months
    Ezra Cohen-Watnick Senior director for intelligence, National Security Council
    Tera Dahl Deputy chief of staff, N.S.C Out after less than six months
    Derek Harvey Middle East adviser, N.S.C. Out after more than six months
    Rich Higgins Director in the strategic planning office, N.S.C Out in July
    Michael C. Short Senior assistant press secretary Out after six months
    Tom Price Secretary of Health and Human Services Sept 2017
    Walter Shaub resigned as the director of the Office of Government Ethics in July
    The entire White House Arts and Humanities Committee
    Most of Trump's American Manufacturing Council.

    Let's see what you can show for Reagan or Clinton to match that. Next we'll go over the infighting evidence. Have yours ready.
     
  18. Barbarian

    Barbarian Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Meanwhile, I notice the hypocrisy over Trump/Weinstein continues unabated. The left seems to be weakening on their support for Weinstein; most Trump supporters still back him.
     
  19. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    I knew you'd back down. I proved my point and proved you wrong. Lucky for you, I don't have the authority to ban you just because you were wrong on this one. But changing the goal posts is so obviously transparent and laughable that --well, I'd better not say. I'd have to ban myself! :lol

    Let me put it this way. This whole thread of yours is nothing more than a huge bag of wind. Hot air. Putrid air. Meaningless and worthless. And with the exception of maybe a couple of people here, everyone else sees it as I see it. Because I'm 100% right in this situation and NOW you are just trying to save face. It's not working Barb. You're making yourself look silly and irrelevant.
     
  20. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    I would like to add that I think this thread violates at least three aspects of the TOS and bears false witness against a public figure. Believe me when I say, as a mod, I am watching this thread very closely. If I could, I'd have shut it down day one. It's wrong folks to lie about another person no matter how much you dislike that person. The OP has zero proof but is happy to push allegations against another person anyway. I've asked for actual proof but the OP refuses to provide any. Instead, all we get is hearsay and speculation. I'd say that such actions on the part of ANY Christian fall under condemnation by God. This is the problem I have with this thread. We'll see how long it survives.
     
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